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Thread: gas choice

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Minnesota
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    gas choice

    Hi I'm actually quite new to GMAW, I've used a light duty Lincoln for years now but mostly FCAW.

    I have now purchased a new Hobart 210 MVP and would like to know if there is any real advantages to having a

    bottle dedicated to c02 other than economy. I already have a small argon bottle that I can use for c25 but I want something that might be a compromise between that gas and flux core for penetration.

    This next spring I want to make some 3 point attachments for my tractor that will be rather stressed, like a boom arm and a log skidder with a winch.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Maryland
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    Odis, hello and welcome. CO2 is a little more aggressive than C25 and as you stated, is cheaper. It has more spatter than C25 but for farm implements I personally don't think it's an issue. Go with C25 if you're looking for best appearance or welding on thin stock. I don't use CO2 here but have used it a friend's place; if I need to make or repair something for the tractor I stick weld it. The 210MVP on 240 VAC should have enough muscle for farm duty, and using flux-core lets you weld in conditions where shielding gas would be blown away from the puddle.

    Edit: I'm with ya on being too cold to mess with it if you don't have to. It got to 8 deg. F. here which is unusual for Maryland, and we have about 1/2 inch of ice on everything now due to freezing rain. Being retired I can stay put until it warms up to mid-50s tomorrow.
    Last edited by canoecruiser; 12-17-2016 at 09:46 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoecruiser View Post
    Odis, hello and welcome. CO2 is a little more aggressive than C25 and as you stated, is cheaper. It has more spatter than C25 but for farm implements I personally don't think it's an issue. Go with C25 if you're looking for best appearance or welding on thin stock. I don't use CO2 here but have used it a friend's place; if I need to make or repair something for the tractor I stick weld it. The 210MVP on 240 VAC should have enough muscle for farm duty, and using flux-core lets you weld in conditions where shielding gas would be blown away from the puddle.

    Edit: I'm with ya on being too cold to mess with it if you don't have to. It got to 8 deg. F. here which is unusual for Maryland, and we have about 1/2 inch of ice on everything now due to freezing rain. Being retired I can stay put until it warms up to mid-50s tomorrow.
    Thanks for the reply, 50 tomorrow, wow I'll have to wait for March to see temps like that. I still have my Lincoln weld pac 100 and intend to just set it up with c25 and light wire for yard art and sheet metal, I've made cabinets with drawer slides for the shop in the past and they will come out much nicer with the gas shielding rather then the flux core.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    I prefer CO2 for the vast majority of my GMAW. Spatter is still low, very low compared to FCAW, and rarely am I doing something where it matters, and what little you get with CO2 still knocks off with the chipping hammer. While the gas itself being cheaper is a great point, it's also the fact that the bottle lasts longer because it's stored inside as a liquid so that means less trips to the gas store in the middle of a project. An initial downside is that you need a more expensive regulator built specifically for CO2. Don't let your gas store give (or worse: sell) you an adapter to put an argon regulator on a CO2 bottle. I made that mistake and ruined two argon regulators a long time ago.

    That said, I'd still use FCAW for your farming attachments. Appearance is a nonissue, and you'll get the most strength with the FCAW process. It is also tolerant of contaminants, which are hard to clean completely out of old material on a working machine.

  5. #5
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    Dec 2016
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    Minnesota
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I prefer CO2 for the vast majority of my GMAW. Spatter is still low, very low compared to FCAW, and rarely am I doing something where it matters, and what little you get with CO2 still knocks off with the chipping hammer. While the gas itself being cheaper is a great point, it's also the fact that the bottle lasts longer because it's stored inside as a liquid so that means less trips to the gas store in the middle of a project. An initial downside is that you need a more expensive regulator built specifically for CO2. Don't let your gas store give (or worse: sell) you an adapter to put an argon regulator on a CO2 bottle. I made that mistake and ruined two argon regulators a long time ago.

    That said, I'd still use FCAW for your farming attachments. Appearance is a nonissue, and you'll get the most strength with the FCAW process. It is also tolerant of contaminants, which are hard to clean completely out of old material on a working machine.
    Thanks much, thats the kind of info I needed. It will be a dedicated bottle for the welder and I intend to build a new cart that will hold both welders and 2 bottles.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by odis View Post
    Thanks much, thats the kind of info I needed. It will be a dedicated bottle for the welder and I intend to build a new cart that will hold both welders and 2 bottles.
    I tend to like the tri-mix gas by the name of "Stargon" from Linde myself, (CO2, Ar, O2). For me, the puddle is very easy to read and flowout of the wire looks good. Spatter, (at least on clean steel) is near non existent and I don't use any nozzle dip. I have never changed the nozzle of diffusor on this mig machine I've had since 1989 being used a lot. That being said, I don't work too much on crusty steel out of doors with a mig. I do use quite an amount of 6010, and 7018 with one of my old Hobart engine drives in the field. Farm equipment if not repaired in a field comes into the shop usually and the repair area is blasted clean with coal slag which leaves a really nice surface for welding repairs.

    Straight CO2 is definitely different and a bit less expensive to use than "Stargon", or C25 but all are good gasses and some are better than others in differing applications.
    Thanks for reading/listening.

    Antique Hobart Engine Drive Lover X5

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by odis View Post
    ... I intend to build a new cart that will hold both welders and 2 bottles.
    I did that once. I much favored putting them on separate carts.

  8. #8
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    I only have so much room in my garage. One cart will work best.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by odis View Post
    I only have so much room in my garage. One cart will work best.
    I'd wager that larger machine will do everything you would do with the smaller other than physical size. Might be best to build your cart to fit the larger machine only as you may not see need to retain your smaller machine.

    It is however nice to have .023-.025 wire in the smaller machine and .035 in the larger to cover all the bases without reconfiguring a machine for a task. It's what I do but my garage is a little bigger than yours from the sounds of it.
    Thanks for reading/listening.

    Antique Hobart Engine Drive Lover X5

  10. #10
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    Dec 2016
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    It is however nice to have .023-.025 wire in the smaller machine and .035 in the larger to cover all the bases without reconfiguring a machine for a task
    Thats what I plan to do. I have the largest garage I've ever had but at age 63 I've accumulated a lot of crap.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Calgary
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    Quote Originally Posted by odis View Post
    Hi I'm actually quite new to GMAW, I've used a light duty Lincoln for years now but mostly FCAW.

    I have now purchased a new Hobart 210 MVP and would like to know if there is any real advantages to having a

    bottle dedicated to c02 other than economy. I already have a small argon bottle that I can use for c25 but I want something that might be a compromise between that gas and flux core for penetration.

    This next spring I want to make some 3 point attachments for my tractor that will be rather stressed, like a boom arm and a log skidder with a winch.
    Here's a good video, that should answer your question, and you would do well to spend some time and money on many of his other videos, especially if, as you said elsewhere, you don't have courses available in your area. The author has been there and done that, unlike many other youtube presenters, and always gives good advice.

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...gases-mig.html

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northweldor View Post
    Here's a good video, that should answer your question, and you would do well to spend some time and money on many of his other videos, especially if, as you said elsewhere, you don't have courses available in your area. The author has been there and done that, unlike many other youtube presenters, and always gives good advice.

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...gases-mig.html
    Jody has got to be about the best (no BS) online welding information person...

    Dale
    Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

  13. #13
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    Dec 2016
    Location
    Minnesota
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    I've looked at his vids and been a subscriber for quite awhile now, I just want as many opinions as possible on the subject. On his forum I posed the same question and got only one response in return which was just go with c25. I appreciate the responses from everybody so far. One more question, since c02 in the tank in in liquid form how does it react to the cold? It's -8 in my garage right now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by odis View Post
    I've looked at his vids and been a subscriber for quite awhile now, I just want as many opinions as possible on the subject. On his forum I posed the same question and got only one response in return which was just go with c25. I appreciate the responses from everybody so far. One more question, since c02 in the tank in in liquid form how does it react to the cold? It's -8 in my garage right now.
    CO2 will only remain in a liquid state at great pressure inside a vessel. When that pressure is dropped as in opening the valve or allowing flow through a regulator, the liquid immediately turns to a gas at any temperature due to the low pressure differential. Liquid CO2 readily boils above -70 degrees F @5.1 atmospheres pressure.

    In simple terms you have nothing to worry about.
    Thanks for reading/listening.

    Antique Hobart Engine Drive Lover X5

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    california
    Posts
    483

    try 75/25

    I was not at all happy with the results of CO2 with this machine. Way too much spatter. I feel it is a voltage issue as CO2 needs a little higher voltage and the machine really stumbled. On a full size machine like the Lincoln 215/216's I used for many years, CO2 results were quite acceptable. Actually did better on pregalvanized steel.
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