110 VAC Mig for goosestep hitch to frame?

[Albin]

I've got a friend who just bought a Ford F-250 SD with the diesel engine. He is going to have a 3/4" thick plate (don't know the width) welded to his frame just below the bed for a gooseneck hitch. The welder is pretty good and I would vouch for his abilities.

However, he plans to use a Lincoln SP-135 MIG welder and, I believe, .030 wire. Typical of hitches of this kind are a 25,000 lb weight limit with 6,000 lbs vertical.

Is this enough welder for this application?

If not, why not and if yes, what do you recommend?

Thanks,

Albin

ETA: correct to "gooseneck"

[_TJ]

Absolutely not enough welder. I would use stick or dual shield for that.

[Roger]

I would follow hitch manufactures guide lines for how to mount it.
They normally don't want you to weld hitch to truck frame because frame tends to crack at weld.

[Sandy]

I'd gowith Roger. Make the hitch attachment as beefy as you need or want but design someway of bolting it on there. Big Bolts, and if it's tube frame don't collapse the tube.

Regardless of what the glossy brochure says about ford tuff and rigid frames, that frame is going to flex and by welding you'd be inserting a rigid section between two flexing frame sections.

If you look at most cross members in vehicles you'll see that they are either bolted or riveted in place. This would be the same.

[Sberry]

I will go with that, he shouldnt be welding directly to the truck frame.

[slaghand]

I agree, once you weld on a frame, you will weld on a frame forever. They will crack near the weld, BET ON IT! Sooner or later, but they will crack. The only welding i do on frames beside repairing, is at the rear of the frame and that is basicly after bolting in a bumper or such i'll put a tack in to monitor movement. Just my humble opinion

[Albin]

Well, I got good news and I got bad news, which do you guys want first?


Let me tell you the good news first. I got there an hour late, they already had the truck in the air, tires off, frame area cleaned and the welder preped but still off. I arrived right in the middle of a discussion on whether the Lincold SP-135 would burn the welds deep enough for the application. After about 15 minutes of discussion during which the owner said: "you welding weenies decide and I'll do what you want", I convinced them that we should decamp and take the truck to my house to use my Lincoln SP-175 Plus (220VAC welder for you Hobart/Miller types).


Bad news: We still welded to the frame, despite the discussion above, that I didn't get to read until this morning. I had read Pile Buck's last message from yesterday before I had left and so missed the comments about not welding to the frame AT ALL.

Other good news: The welds do look good and I convinced them to reinforce them with 1/4 plate; this allowed us to double weld to the 3/4" plate, once to the frame, once to the 1/4" re plate. BTW: the frame is only 1/4" so the 3/4" plate was a little overkill; they usually use 1/2" plate for the gooseneck hitches the owner saw in local Tractor Supply and truck stores.



Pic of welded 3/4" without and with the 1/4" reinforcement plate.

OK, now what do you think?

Thanks,

Al

[Sberry]

I see a busted frame in the future. You never weld across the top flange of a truck frame. This is a case of actually being able to run the machine, not neccesarily knowing what is being done with it. Many larger trucks have "Do not weld to frame" stickers on them. I concure with slaghand, I dont weld on frames but for repair or occasionally limited amounts behind the rear spring shackles. I run across top frame rails on Ford trucks behind the cab and when I do them its weld, backgouge and weld, then grind smooth and polish. Cant ever see its done. There may be some forgiveness here due to the location and you should keep an eye on it. I didnt jump on this thread earlier in the day either, was waiting a bit to see where it went.

[Albin]

Originally Posted by Sberry27

I see a busted frame in the future. You never weld across the top flange of a truck frame. This is a case of actually being able to run the machine, not neccesarily knowing what is being done with it. Many larger trucks have "Do not weld to frame" stickers on them. I concure with slaghand, I dont weld on frames but for repair or occasionally limited amounts behind the rear spring shackles. I run across top frame rails on Ford trucks behind the cab and when I do them its weld, backgouge and weld, then grind smooth and polish. Cant ever see its done. There may be some forgiveness here due to the location and you should keep an eye on it. I didnt jump on this thread earlier in the day either, was waiting a bit to see where it went.

Sounds like we have a case of doing a good job of getting the ladder against the wall, but we picked the wrong wall. Oh well.

I'll see if I can get the owner to keep and eye on it; I see him and his truck at least once a week, it'll be easy to take a gander at it every once in a while.

Me, I would have used the 3/4" plate but welded it to 3" angle, then bolted the angle to the frame. 'Course this would have meant taking the bed off. Every gooseneck hitch I've seen, except for one example, is similiar to this design.


Thanks,

Al

[walker]

Well I cannot keep quiet any longer. You don't weld to the frame of a truck. Bolt it on only. Next, flat plate is not meat to accept a load in that plane, it will flex, should have used channel, or at least welded some angle to it. Also, the load you are asking it to accept is 6,000 pounds. By my calculation that is three tons. You are putting three tons in the bed of a 3/4 ton truck, that is only the tounge weight of the trailer. There is still the weight of the trailer to contend with, I thinkk you said that to be 25,000 pounds. I have an F-550 and I think the max trailer I can haul is 11,000 pounds. I could be off on my figures, here as it has been a long time since I looked at it, and my trailer figures are for hitched trailer, not goosenecks. But, be very cautious on this. Here in AZ the limit for hauling is 18,000 pounds before you are a commercial vehicle. Thats right a CMV that is require to fill out the log, stop in the weigh stations, the whole nine yards.
On a side note, I would never weld for someone who tells me that I am a welding weenie!

[arcdawg]

now here is my question...........how do they get away with welding a reciever on the back of the truck ?

what about when they BOX a frame on a street rod ? or put a nova/camaro front end on ?


is it just new frames you are refering to

d-

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by arcdawg

now here is my question...........how do they get away with welding a reciever on the back of the truck ?

what about when they BOX a frame on a street rod ? or put a nova/camaro front end on ?


is it just new frames you are refering to

d-

Hey arcdawg,

It's not really ever a mater of absolute do/don't, will/won't. It's not like welding on a frame will cause it to just go pop and the rear end fall off the next time you try to use it. Cracks start out tiny, buried under dirt and grow from there.

The next issue is usage and loads. you wouldn't believe how many recievers out there are nothing more than a receiver all sad and lonely waiting to be used or haul a 1,00lbs to the dump once a year or so. Heavy loads and heavy useage will really dictate what happens and it will take time. Another similar factor is the flex of the frame. If this thing never leaves the asphalt all this is minimized any way. Serious users and off roaders experience more problems than weekenders.

As far as the ones you see welded on the back, well those probably shouldn't have been but that right along with a lot of other shouldn'ts out there. They don't come with instructions to weld, they come with hardware to bolt. And there again actual usage and application dictates. Can't break it if ya don't use it.

As far as street rods and custom jobs---whole different story. Mainly as in what alternatives do you have??

This truck will be fine, it's just something for them to keep in mind and watch for. Can't be undone so what the heck?

[arcdawg]

well i know that on BIG TRUCKS .....18wheelers....... you cant weld on the frame but.......cars and trucks too .......?

**** now they are making fenders on cars that is made up of some crazy steel alloy and as soon as you throw in some heat they crack...........or even worse.......look at saterns...

dawg

[Mike W]

Here is an interesting read:
http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/tdr...w%20trucks.htm

[Albin]

A couple of points I want to make:

- It was friend's truck, not mine; therefore his truck, his decision.

- My knowledge on gooseneck hitches is only internet-deep, I don't have one, never have. I got the 25K rating from the draw-tite and other sites. It appears to be the standard for goosenecks. What he'll actually tow is unknown. However, we are towing hopefully a '86 4Runner and a Scout on a gooseneck this weekend. 4K + 4K + 4K roughly per vehicle plus the trailer = 12K lbs this weekend, assumes we can get both vehicles on the trailer (it's friends and it will hold 2 Jeeps). The SD is a 4wd truck but will see pavement only for the most part.

- His decision to use 3/4" plate was based on a trip to Tractor Supply. He told me that the GN hitches there only used 1/2" plate, he didn't mention any other material. When he was looking for his SD, however, we saw 2 SD's with GN hitches that were just 1/2" or so plates. So at least he didn't make it up on his own. The 3/4" was his idea to beef it up.

- I delayed asking here because it wasn't my truck nor really my business. When I got involved, I asked, obviously too late.

- As one poster said, it's done. While we may not or should not have done it, I know that at least we did it good. There's no question in my mind that the welds we made are good and will stay good. Whether or not the frames cracks, that, like the 3/4" plate decision was his to make. His truck, his decision.

I appreciate the comments and help. I'll post a couple more pics tomorrow now that I know how to resize them down the 100 kb limit.

Thanks,

Al