what size TIG filler rods do I use ??

[z0diac]

I'm going to be picking up my Lincoln Precision TIG 225 tomorrow and need to know - what size filler rods do I use with this?

I've never ordered any tig stuff before so I don't want something that's way to big/small for the current of this machine.

I'm not even sure what size tungsten comes with the Readpak that this machine comes with.

If anyone has this machine, what are some good filler rods to use with it for:

- mild steel
- aluminum (is there a general all-purpose type?)
- stainless (ditto)

Thanks in advance!!!

[greywynd]

Originally Posted by z0diac

I'm going to be picking up my Lincoln Precision TIG 225 tomorrow and need to know - what size filler rods do I use with this?

I've never ordered any tig stuff before so I don't want something that's way to big/small for the current of this machine.

I'm not even sure what size tungsten comes with the Readpak that this machine comes with.

If anyone has this machine, what are some good filler rods to use with it for:

- mild steel
- aluminum (is there a general all-purpose type?)
- stainless (ditto)

Thanks in advance!!!

The torch comes setup for 3/32 tungstens, if I recall when I got my PT185 it came with either one or two thoriated tungstens. You'll likely want to grab a few more, and if you want to try aluminum, grab some green (pure) for aluminum. I've experimented with some Lanathanated and ceriated, both for DC and AC work, but to be honest ended up going back to the 'old standards' for transformer based machines. Might also want to grab a couple extra shielding nozzles (the ceramic ones). Theyr'e cheap, and if something happens to the one you get with the torch, it sucks not to have a spare.

As far as filler rod goes, if you're picking it up from your LWS, they'll likely be more than willing to give you a variety anyway.

Steel, I generally use ER70S, I have both 1/16" and 3/32" on hand.

Aluminum, there are really only two choices (at least for the common stuff) 4043 (generally considered a slightly nicer rod to use) and 5356 (think that's the one) which is required for anything that will get anodized. I generally use 3/32, seems to work on everything I do, though occasionally a smaller size would be nice.

Stainless I believe the one I have is 309, which will work on most 300 series SS's. (303 isn't really weldable). For stainless, it is important to know what alloy the base metal is, I tend to use the SS rod for some oddball mild steel jobs, just to add some corrosion resistance, or sometimes just because.

One thing with the tig rods, find or make some storage tubes, something that can be sealed is best. Not as critical for the SS rods, but the steel and aluminum will both rust/oxidize with moisture. Some steel filler is copper coated to help prevent it, but some isn't. I don't have the ideal storage setup in my shop, so I only tend to keep a limited supply out there, and the balance is hidden away inside the house.

Enjoy the new machine!!

Mark

[BWS29128]

ER70S for Carbon

308, 309, 316 for Stainless (I think there's a 312 and 314 too, but not sure...) 308 is good all-purpose stuff.

And do yourself a favor and stick with 4043 for AL. I love 5356 wire for my little MIG, but when I try to TIG with it (on anything thinner than 1/4" anyway) I always seem to burn through. Might just be cause I'm not all that great with my PT185. Don't worry about trying to pre-ball your tungsten tips...it'll happen automatically with the voltage on AC.

The smaller your tungsten is, the easier the Arc is to learn (IMHO) but you'll probably get a nicer looking weld/better fusion with larger sizes. 3/32 is great all-purpose tungsten and filler size unless you're gonna be doing REALLY big stuff (like large, thick-walled pipe). Keep your tungsten tips sharp and round-ground....as soon as you foul a tip (and you probably will if you're new to TIG (heck, I still do anyway!) go ahead and stop what you're doing and change (or flip, if you're using short sticks) your tungsten. Otherwise you'll end up with crappy lookin' beads and you'll get frustrated.

If you'd like to see some top-notch TIG welds, look at this Member's personal webpage:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/engloi.../workpics.html

~Clint

[BWS29128]

PS: those pics belong to Engloid and that's one of his websites.

[Vipernut]

You can find stainless and mild steel rods at Princess Auto in 1 lb tubes - aluminum you will have to hunt around for. Praxair, Air Liquide, ect. usually only have 10 lbs packs at about $8.50 a pound.
Try some of the online welding suppliers - Weldingsupply.com doesn't ship to Canada - I found this out recently

[Vipernut]

Originally Posted by BWS29128

PS: those pics belong to Engloid and that's one of his websites.

His welds are so perfect, I could puke

[z0diac]

Originally Posted by greywynd

As far as filler rod goes, if you're picking it up from your LWS, they'll likely be more than willing to give you a variety anyway.

Steel, I generally use ER70S, I have both 1/16" and 3/32" on hand.

Aluminum, there are really only two choices (at least for the common stuff) 4043 (generally considered a slightly nicer rod to use) and 5356 (think that's the one) which is required for anything that will get anodized. I generally use 3/32, seems to work on everything I do, though occasionally a smaller size would be nice.

Stainless I believe the one I have is 309, which will work on most 300 series SS's. (303 isn't really weldable). For stainless, it is important to know what alloy the base metal is, I tend to use the SS rod for some oddball mild steel jobs, just to add some corrosion resistance, or sometimes just because.

One thing with the tig rods, find or make some storage tubes, something that can be sealed is best. Not as critical for the SS rods, but the steel and aluminum will both rust/oxidize with moisture. Some steel filler is copper coated to help prevent it, but some isn't. I don't have the ideal storage setup in my shop, so I only tend to keep a limited supply out there, and the balance is hidden away inside the house.

Enjoy the new machine!!

Mark

Very helpful Mark - I wrote most of that down for what I need tomorrow, thanks!

My list so far...

Steel: ER70s 1/16, 3/32
Alum.: 4043 3/32
Stainless: 309 3/32

Although I might not mess with stainless too much right now since it's so expensive and I don't really have any stainless scrap to work with at the moment.

[z0diac]

Originally Posted by BWS29128

ER70S for Carbon

308, 309, 316 for Stainless (I think there's a 312 and 314 too, but not sure...) 308 is good all-purpose stuff.

And do yourself a favor and stick with 4043 for AL. I love 5356 wire for my little MIG, but when I try to TIG with it (on anything thinner than 1/4" anyway) I always seem to burn through. Might just be cause I'm not all that great with my PT185. Don't worry about trying to pre-ball your tungsten tips...it'll happen automatically with the voltage on AC.

The smaller your tungsten is, the easier the Arc is to learn (IMHO) but you'll probably get a nicer looking weld/better fusion with larger sizes. 3/32 is great all-purpose tungsten and filler size unless you're gonna be doing REALLY big stuff (like large, thick-walled pipe). Keep your tungsten tips sharp and round-ground....as soon as you foul a tip (and you probably will if you're new to TIG (heck, I still do anyway!) go ahead and stop what you're doing and change (or flip, if you're using short sticks) your tungsten. Otherwise you'll end up with crappy lookin' beads and you'll get frustrated.

If you'd like to see some top-notch TIG welds, look at this Member's personal webpage:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/engloi.../workpics.html

~Clint

Thanks a bunch Clint. All great advice. Yah, I've done a bit of production tig welding last summer. Welding these **** stainless bolts onto black steel latches. Had 30,000 of them to do for Honda. It's easy to get lazy and let the end of the tungsten get contaminated and have an ugly fat arc at the end But yah, once you re-grind it sharp and get that focused arc back, there's nothing like it!

I've never tig'd aluminum before so that should be interesting. I know finished tig beads look great when they're done properly, but aluminum conducts heat so much quicker than steel, so I'm guessing I'll be carving some ugly divets into the workpiece while I practice.

[z0diac]

Originally Posted by BWS29128

PS: those pics belong to Engloid and that's one of his websites.

Wow does nickel ever leave some beautiful beads. Not to mention the welder looks like he could put most automated machines to shame.

[greywynd]

Originally Posted by Vipernut

You can find stainless and mild steel rods at Princess Auto in 1 lb tubes - aluminum you will have to hunt around for. Praxair, Air Liquide, ect. usually only have 10 lbs packs at about $8.50 a pound.
Try some of the online welding suppliers - Weldingsupply.com doesn't ship to Canada - I found this out recently

My local (Praxair) that I use has a scale and will sell by the pound (or portions thereof) depending on the rod. I've also had them give me some 'specials' (some rods for specialty tool steel that had been discontinued) and some aluminum that was returned....alloy number was identifiable, but not the batch or make.....ok for home use, but not for anything that requires traceability. I likely have close to 20lbs of 4043 in 3/32" size right now. (Though I did buy one 10 pound pack of it anyway.)

If you figure you will be doing a lot of anything, it is well worth buying a 10lb pack.....as long as you can store it correctly, it will keep indefinitely. Different than SMAW rods, moisture getting into the flux isn't an issue. If you have the option, try to get the copper coated ER70S, it will be easier to store. If in time you see rust on the end, cut an inch or so off.

Mark

[Vipernut]

Must be nice to get alum. by the pound. I wish they were like that around here. I was going to play hardball with the rod when I bought the 225, but figured the cheap fills on the tanks was worth more
The mild steel rod from PA is copper coated, which suprised me and they have 3 grades of stainless, but when I asked about aluminum no one knew why they don't stock it

[greywynd]

Actually aluminum is the one I generally buy in 10 pound packs.

Once winter rolls around I'll use a pound or two a week.

Mark

[BWS29128]

I've never tig'd aluminum before so that should be interesting. I know finished tig beads look great when they're done properly, but aluminum conducts heat so much quicker than steel, so I'm guessing I'll be carving some ugly divets into the workpiece while I practice.

Start with thicker pieces...1/4" flat stock if you can find it. One of the neat things about the AL, is that after you've practiced three or four rows of beads on your 1/4"X2" flat stock, you can grind the beads flat again (you can do steel the same way, of course, but it's just a good bit harder....no pun intended!)

Here's something else to consider, although there are plenty of folks on here much much much more-qualified to discuss it than I am, but with the balled tip caused by the AC, your arc will wander slightly, spreading the heat around a little bit, rather than having a needle-sharp point that would focus the arc and burn through more easily (sic? grammar?).

Don't try to walk the cup on aluminum...you'll stick your cup or break it. I always had pretty good results when I was learning by keeping the same distance between the cup and the aluminum as I was keeping between the tungsten and the aluminum. In order to do that, you have to back off the normal (okay, maybe that isn't the correct word...) 1/8" stickout when TIG'ing steel. But, if you'll back off and only have maybe 1/16" of tungsten sticking out, you'll apply less heat to the aluminum---again reducing chances of burning through. By shortening the tungsten that much, it also allows you to lean (cant) the cup a good bit further over, which in turn also gives you a better view of the puddle. You won't get great-looking beads this way, but you'll see exactly what's going on in the puddle much more clearly. After you've gotten a good idea of what the arc looks like coming off the ball and how quickly or slowly it melts the base metal, then you can go back to "normal" adjustments and you'll get GREAT stacks!!!

Okay...that's the end of the Baxley Advice Column for the evening! ROFL! Seriously, there are lots of guys on here that can explain all of this much better than I can, and they can give you all the technical data that I can't.

PS: earlier, when I said "you'll stick the cup or break it" I was relaying a personal experience....I feel like my air-cooled torch gets much hotter (hotter to the touch) when working with AL and I have to be ultra-careful with my cup being so close. Those could both be factors of my lack of technical training on GTAW.

[greywynd]

Originally Posted by BWS29128

I feel like my air-cooled torch gets much hotter (hotter to the touch) when working with AL and I have to be ultra-careful with my cup being so close. Those could both be factors of my lack of technical training on GTAW.

It will get much hotter than when welding steel, on AC a portion of the cycle is the same as straight polarity (the cleaning cycle), and that places the heat into the tungsten. When welding aluminum, because I still only have the air cooled torch, I set the current to about 140, and leave it. It will still get hot as heck, but according to specs, I'm within the ratings of the torch. For a lot of the 3/16" and 1/4" that I do, I preheat, simply because they are large and thick. I'm hoping to add a cooler and water cooled torch to my setup because I know I'm pushing the limits of things.

Mark