Buying A Welder! Which one?!

[Brad54]

Oh boy oh-boy-oh-boy! The first time I had the money saved up for a welder, both of our vehicles were broken into on our driveway--$500 deductible each.
The second time I had the money saved up, our family cat got his jimmy plugged up and his bladder filled up to the size of a large lemon instead of it's normal golf-ball size. I did learn, however, that they have Animal Emergency Rooms! And yes, that's as expensive as it sounds.
The third time I had the money saved, I screwed up and let the truck roll down the driveway backwards. With the door open. Fortunately, my '54 Buick was there to stop the truck from rolling into the road. Unfortunately, the Buick used the open door to stop the truck from rolling into the road. (think Alaskan Snow Crab claws at dinner) $500 deductible.
The fourth time we decided to move from Florida to Georgia, out of our own pocket. Oddly, the money was there for upgraded carpet and upgraded kitchen appliances, but after it was all said and done, the well was dry for the welder. Strange...
The fifth time, my cat had some medical problems. Now I don't have a welder OR a cat. I would have rather had the cat, to be honest. (I'd be fine without "Plug," or other one, though)
The sixth time we decided my son's 8th birthday was the last opportunity for getting a puppy and really really making it special. Got an Airdale. Worth EVERY penny, and any welder.
The seventh time, the parking brake failed on my truck (I gotta get rid of that truck...) and it rolled down my driveway--in gear--and crashed through my shop. $500 deductible, but I did get a better garage door out of the deal. Well, two garage doors.

I just changed jobs, and I had a month's worth of vacation saved up--so while the majority of it is going toward charge cards or toward paying off the truck, I made it clear to my wife, in no uncertain terms, that I'M GETTING A WELDER WITH SOME OF IT!!!!!!

So now that I know that, which one should I get?
I have no real welding experience to speak of (usually looks like bubble gum), but I'm gonna learn and make a lot of scrap practicing. I am also going to see about taking a welding class at the local community college.
I'm a hot rodder (worked for car magazines, now I work for Year One), so that's what I'll be using it for. Plus building my own shop equipment--benches, fixtures, etc. I mostly use 1/8 or 1/4-inch thick stock when building my shop projects.
I'll be doing a lot of sheetmetal work, and chassis or suspension stuff as well.
My shop is wired with several 220v outlets, along both side walls, so I can move a welder around in several areas of the shop.
Mig is the easiest to learn, and seems to be the most versatile. I'd love to learn Tig, but gotta walk before you can fly (or something like that), plus a good Tig is a lot more money than I have. Actually, a bad Tig is probably a lot more than I have, too.
My budget will be between $400-$600. I already have a brand new regulator, and I have no desire to use flux-core.
Here are my specific questions (finally)
What are your suggestions for a machine?
I want the speed and temp to be infinite adjustment, so I can turn it up a bit to compensate for long extension cords to the wall (rather than the "click" stop setting knobs).
Would it make sense to have a decent Mig for sheetmetal and lighter steel, and to find a used A/C stick welder for the heavier material?
Finally, and I feel bad about asking this on the Hobart board, but what brands do you all recommend? I've always been around Lincoln machines, and a neighbor who is a professional welder has a small 220v Miller in his garage and highly recommends it--he fabricated a chassis for his mini-truck, and the quality of work is exceptional. I asked specifically about penetration with the littler machine, and he said it's perfect. What about Craftsman? I know people in the company, and they've told me welders are one of their biggest selling power tools.
Someone here posted something about being able to get their consumables (tips, I guess?) at Home Depot, which is an excellent point. Because crap always dies on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon, when the welding supply houses are closed.

So, to make a short question really, really long , what machine do you guys recommend, and what kinds of things should I look for when I shop (don't understand the terms "duty cycle" and such).
Finally, I've heard from people that the best time of the year to buy any shop equipment is right around now, so it's not in their stock on Jan. 1st for tax purposes, so I'm looking at getting it in the next two weeks or so.

Thanks for your help and advice with this everyone--I've lurked on here a while, contributed a bit, and learned a whole lot!
-Brad

[Sberry]

The Crapsman isnt called Crapsman for nothing, avoid it. Red White or Blue. The tap settings on a small welder are actually a good thing. HH180 would fit the bill, but comes with a reg. You need a reg for these gasses, not an old oxygen reg.

[Engloid]

I'm going to go make a thread in the Welding Products forum on this site...in just a minute.

Aside from that, it sounds like if you'd learn a bit about vehicle safety and security, you may be able to retire earlier than you might think.

[Teeps]

LOL, you had me in stitches.
Yeah I finally made some terms with the wifey myself and I'm picking up an millermatic 251.

go get a signature loan (or used that old truck for a secured loan) and pick up an mm210!!!!! It will have a much shorter learning curve with tapped voltage settings, and a super bang for the buck factor. Not a Ton more cost than the MM175 pricing, but way better output, amazing versatility, 22 guage to 1/2 thickness range, and even spray arc if you decide to weld something over 3/16's thickness.

Way overkill for me right now, but a purchase I'm not likely to regret down the road when my skill actually allows me to take more advantage of the machines capability.

If you decide to do aluminum some day, "just add" spoolgun, and your all set.

Of course if you want those ungodly beautiful welds on ultra thin exotic materials, gotta go with the tig eventually. Dynasty 200dx is the hot ticket right now.

If you know what 85-95% of your material, and thickness would be you could certainly find something tailored to your exact usage, sometimes getting away with a cheaper machine that fits the bill.

I highly recommend the miller student kit, you can order it off their website. After your up and running and welded on some scrap, that's a good time to go to start a semester of schooling.

Best of Luck!!!

[James D. Clark]

The MM175 has the infinite control that you want. It's a 220 volt machine. The problem is that it may cost a little more than you want. But shop around. A quick look on-line I found a $699 price. You can do better with a HH175 but it has the step control. Some will argue that is better, but I don't have a problem with the infinite control. Either will do 1/4 inch.

If you have a Tractor Supply or a good farm supply store in your area, they have welding wire and contact tips for the Hobart and Miller. Also, wire brushes, helmets, grinding tools, etc. Look for Weldit brand supplies for the tips and wire. Stores here are open 7 days a week unless for some holidays.

Cross your fingers and don't park your truck on a grade. Good luck.

[danmcmartin]

LMAO

I don't know jack about the ins and outs of welders. But I do know I bought my Lincoln SP 175+ for one reason. I can get consumables at any Lowes or Home Depot. I live in the sticks and don't have any welding shops nearby. I have also learned that the ones in the area, an hour away, are closed on weekends. HD and Lowes are open weekends and late at night. They are still about 45 minutes away (getting a new one only a half hour away ).

I am not advocating Lincoln, though I do love mine, but look into where you can get consumables. It would suck to need more wire or whatever and have to wait until Monday!

[James D. Clark]

There are two Miller dealers (welding supplies) listed for Athens, Ga. There is a Tractor Supply Co. at Covington, GA., southwest of you along I-20. If you go on TSC's web pages and register, they will show the prices of their welders. They don't list a HH175 or HH180, but might have them or can order. Hunt on-line too. Do a search on this site too. Should get some leads for where to look.

[Timinmb]

Glad to hear that you are finally in a position to get that welder you always wanted. I think if you stick to Miller, Hobart or Lincoln and get a machine of sufficient power for the work you want to do, you will not regret it. As long as you have a spare roll of wire and some contactors stored away, you shouldn't find yourself stranded on a Saturday night, unable to weld, unless you run out of shielding gas. These machines don't eat parts. In fifteen years of use, I only ever had to replace the liner, contactors and nozzles on my 110 volt mig and it saw a fair bit of use by both myself and others. The consumables are, understandably, consumed. So keep spares. As for the infinite voltage control, I'm not sure what I'm missing. I've not had it on either of my machines, and can't remember running into a situation where I wished there was some setting in between the choices available. If its not working right, I assume operator error, and change some part of my technique. If you are doing a lot of 1/4" work, you might want to move up from the 175/180 amp machines to something bigger. Or simply accept that limitation and use a stick welder for heavier work.

[Sandy]

Here's the big problem-------

Every time you save up for a welder, things go to HE** in a hand basket!!! Some catastrophe happens (sorry about mentioning the cat again). Stop saving for a welder. Stop now!!. In fact, any money you have for a welder, give it away, throw it away or buy something else quick!!!

You gotta sneak up on this. Put the welder on credit and then when bad luck isn't watching, pay for it with the college fund.

[Brad54]

"Aside from that, it sounds like if you'd learn a bit about vehicle safety and security, you may be able to retire earlier than you might think."

No kidding!
Both of our cars were among more than a dozen others that got "smash and grabbed" in the driveways up and down our street. The punks slam a screwdriver through the door and pry the lock lever off the cylinder to open the door. They couldn't get into my '97 Dakota, but sure tried like ****! The slammed into both of my wife's doors, too--before realizing her car was unlocked!
Then the '97 got stolen (last time I put expensive wheels on a truck), and replaced with a 2001. The '01 rolled into the Buick because I'm an idiot: I pulled into the driveway and wanted to finish hearing what Rush had to say, then jumped out--without setting the brake or putting it in gear. No excuse. Got out of my vehicle shut-down routine.
After we moved, I was religous about the brake and in-gear, especially on our new driveway. It's a short hill to the house garage, flat into the side-load garage, and continues downhill to the shop. The brake was set, it was in gear, for 45 minutes! Then my son is talking to me (with my back to the truck), and his face goes pale and he said "Dad! Your truck just moved!" It sort of "chugged" once as the engine rotated. Then again. I got to it on the third chug, opened the door on the fourth, stabbed for the brake on the 5th, 6th and 7th. By then it was just rolling, not chugging, and I dove into the cab as it hit the shop! An hour later at Home Depot to get some 2x4s to brace the wall up (took out both garage doors and the center support between them), I set the park brake all the way, on level ground, got out, and pushed the truck forward a few feet with one hand. The e-brake was useless.
Didn't even dent the truck, though! Dodge trucks ARE Ram Tough!

On the welders, I'm guessing the MM--- is Miller, HH---- is Hobart?
For the infinite variable settings, the way it was explained to me is this: If I plug the machine into an outlet right there, it will draw "X" amps/current. If I plug it into an extension cord that's 15-20 feet long, the cord will lose "X" current, which will slightly affect output of the machine. If I'm used to welding a specific material at a certain setting, and then lose current through a cord, I can "tune" the setting a bit.
That made sense to me, but might this be too picky--especially for a total greenhorn? This wouldn't be a factor if the machine is plugged into a specific outlet and left there, but I will probably be rolling the machine across the shop somewhat frequently.

What amperage machines should I be looking at? And can anyone give me an example of when I'd be welding anything thicker than 1/4-inch, or maybe 3/8-inch on hot rods?
A friend gave me a brand new regulator from a Lincoln kit a couple of years ago, so that's covered, and I've got a decent instantly darkening helmet. Will need gloves, and should get leathers, but I have yet to see anyone do anything with their leathers but use them as a dust cover for the machine.
-Brad

[Teeps]

If you need to weld 3/8-1/2" your going to need a very high amperage machine.
MM210 can do 1/2 in short spurts.
If your going to be doing alot of 1/2, you'll want an mm251

MM = Miller Matic
HH = Hobart Handler

One thing to be weary of, yo mention extension cords.
If you go with something like the MM210, you'll need an extension cord supporting atleast 50amps!!!! and a dedicated 50 amp breaker!!!!
You can make your own extension cord out of SOOW cable, and 50 amp 250 volt connector plugs. Alot of guys go with a 40 amp breaker, and a 40 amp extension cable,
like an 8/3 SOOW, and have not had problems tripping the breaker, but if your at the top end of the machines outpout, depending on your input voltage, you may have to go with a larger circuit.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/...highlight=soow

Personally, setting up for my mm251, will have to upgrade the electrical service to my entire property (from 100 to 200 amps), and will be running 100 amp service to my garage, with seperate breakers in the garage, a 60 amp for the mm251, etc, etc,

Might want to check wire guage, and amperage rating of your circuits and breakers in your garage!!!

[Engloid]

Originally Posted by Brad54

On the welders, I'm guessing the MM--- is Miller, HH---- is Hobart?

yes. MillerMatic and Hobart Handler/

Originally Posted by Brad54

For the infinite variable settings, the way it was explained to me is this: If I plug the machine into an outlet right there, it will draw "X" amps/current. If I plug it into an extension cord that's 15-20 feet long, the cord will lose "X" current, which will slightly affect output of the machine. If I'm used to welding a specific material at a certain setting, and then lose current through a cord, I can "tune" the setting a bit.

A better analogy: Imagine a radio that has a volume knob with clicks...and only 4 of them. Wouldn't it suck ony being able to choose 4 volume levels?
When welding, it's not quite so bad, because you can usually adjust your wirespeed and travel speed to help out some.

[Brad54]

Excellent analogy on the radio dial!!!
The only 1/2-inch material I can see me welding will be my welding table when I build it, and then I'll be weldking 1/4-inch square tubing legs and C-channel to the underside.

When I built my house and shop, I had them put a seperate 200-amp servie meter on the shop, and I'm wiring the shop myself. Half of it is done now. On one wall, I have 110v outlets every 4 feet, on 4 circuits. (each 2-gang box has two circuits going into it, so I can plug the bench grinder into the same outlet box as the Coke machine, and they're on different circuits so it won't trip the breaker). I wired 4 220v outlets along the same wall, all on their own circuit, and will install 50-amp breakers in each when I figure out what plugs I need.
What's that saying? "There's no kill like overkill."?

The welder will be "docked" most of the time on the other wall, where I'll have outlets for it and a plasma cutter (next purchase--probably three vehicle mishaps and two pet problems down the road )

I'm not a production shop, just hobby stuff--but at 34 years old, I plan on growing into my capabilities and skill level.

All the companies talk about "Duty Cycle." I've never really been able to get a clear answer as to what that is--even when I spoke to Lincoln and Hobart marketing guys about research for a magazine story a few years ago. Can anyone help with this?

And it sounds like, from what you guys have written here and from what I've seen in past posts, that Hobart, Miller and Lincoln are decent machines, but Craftsman and Century should be avoided. Is that a fair statement?

Thanks again for your help--I've got some GREAT notes from the replies so far.
-Brad

[Engloid]

Look for my thread about "beginner" machines, in the Welding Products forum. I tell a bit about duty cycle there.

[Brad54]

Will check that thread, Engloid, thanks!

One thing I just thought of that might cut straight to the heart of the matter--What machines do you guys have, are you happy with them, and where do they leave you wishing you had a different machine? Under what kind of circumstances.
Remember, I'm using it for hot rodding and probably a 4x4 truck in the future--I won't be welding end-loader buckets and bull-dozer blades like some of you guys.
Thanks again--what I learn here is what I'll be arming myself with when I walk into the welder store!
-Brad