Dump truck repair

[harold]

Need some advice on this one!
Need to weld in the hydraulic dump tank between the bed rails on the dump truck. both the tank ends and the bed rails are 3/8" material. I plan to use a lap joint as was originally done. the first (root pass I would use the MM210 and .035 wire & gas) then I don't know. Should I use the syncrowave 180 and stick weld with 7018 or what. Oh yes, originally these were only welded along the top. No vertical welds and no welds along the bottom. Some where on this forum I read a post that said never use vertical welds on car or trailer beds. I assume the same holds true here as it would cause stress risers. Not sure why it wouldn't be welded along the bottom though' I would think it would make it stronger. This tank is also the anchor point for the three dump rams (5"D x 49"L with 2.25" rods) Its a 5 yard dump truck. When it broke under load it caused quite a bit of damage, took out the drive shaft, tank and severly bent one ram rod. I don't want a repeat.
Any advice recommendations will be appreciated. PS I can post pictures if needed
Harold

[Mike Sherman]

Harold, if this tank is also the support for the rams, then it needs to have a super reinforced top and it should be bolted to the rails. The top should be designed primarily to support the rams and secondly to hold the oil tank up. You should avoid welding on the rails whenever possible, I extend frames and shorten trucks on occasion and you can weld this support in if necessary, but it would be better to bolt it in if you are putting it between the rails. Send me a picure or write me direct if needed and I will help as much as possible. I probably won't be able to check the board again until Sat. afternoon or Monday morning.

[harold]

Mike this photo shows the damage to the tank and ram support. It mounts between the rails on the bed. Also the rails are marked do not drill any holes.

[harold]

Picture of damaged rams. before being repaired

[harold]

Mike this shows the failed weld on the bed before it was cleaned up. Note the most sever damage occurred on the opposit side where it was literally torn loose.

[harold]

This photo is a closeup of the rails after the old weld was ground out. note the do not drill warning.

[harold]

This shows the tank and ram supports. It has been repaired and is ready to be installed between the rails. the long sides of the end caps are the only place it was welded; They go up.
note these have been cleaned up but rusted a little waiting on me to deciede how to proceed. They will be givin a final cleaning befor installation.

[harold]

This picture shows the pair of rails where the tank mounts. It is ready for installing the tank. I have a lot more pictures Mike but I don't think it would add anything to post them. If there is something specific that needs to be shown please let me know.
Didn't really think when this new board was put up that i would be posting pictures but... Its a great plus for us beginers. I like it

[harold]

This picture shows the pair of rails where the tank mounts. It is ready for installing the tank. I have a lot more pictures Mike but I don't think it would add anything to post them. If there is something specific that needs to be shown please let me know.
Didn't really think when this new board was put up that i would be posting pictures but... Its a great plus for us beginers. I like it

[Mike Sherman]

Harold, I think I now have a clear picture what you are doing. I will try to address all of your concerns at once, if I miss something write me I will address it. The frame rails to the truck state "Do not drill the flange" that is the top and bottom returns on the rail, not the large flat web. I see that someone has welded the angle iron to the top of the flange, that is also not exactly correct (it should have flanges welded to the outside that drop down over the outside of the rails and then be through bolted in the web), but since it is already done we won't discuss it. It appears that the welding you need to do is not on the actual frame rails but on the angle that has been added on top of them. If this is correct than you may weld away without concern. I would use E7018 that has been properly stored or flux cored wire. Use a good three pass fillet and weld it all the way around. If I am correct in that you are not welding on the original frame rails, than you can weld all the way around it and not worry about the stress lines in the rails. Do not use short circuit mig on this, it will probably fail if you do. There should be a good enough fit up on this one to weld all three passes with E7018. If not, try to get a better fit up. If a perfect fit up is not possible, you may fill any large gaps with the mig, but only the gap and then put your three pass over that. Good luck and let me know how it turns out.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

DUMP TRUCK...........HMMMMMMMM .......... LOOKS MORE LIKE A ROLL BACK TO ME, BUT I'M ONLY GUESSING AND HOW MANY AXLE'S ARE ON THIS.........?......ROCK.... SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

[harold]

Many many thanks Mike; I feel better already. The angle iron welded to the top was that way when I bought the truck this past June, I thought it was original and considered a part of the rail. Anyway the weld to that angle is the support for the tank and the weld on one side rail failed (also the tank to angle iron support was weld on the top only); it precipitated the disaster that followed. When I inspected the welds of the failed side the remnents of the weld on the angle iron were badly fractured throughout. One last question do you recommend I drill and bolt through the angle iron in addition to welding it? I plan to weld it tommorow (practice today as I did yesterday ) My welds look pretty good . I cut off sections and bent them severly with an anvil and a drilling hammer so I think they will hold. My new syncrowave 180 sure is nice and a pleasure to use.
Harold

[Mike Sherman]

Harold, it won't hurt to bolt them as well as weld. A catastraphic failure like you had could have been avoided with a better design. Bolting as well as welding will help, particularly if you are not a professional welder with loads of experience. Good luck.

[harold]

Hardened 1/2" bolts coming up. Thanks Mike for all the advice and taking time to read these posts
Harold

[harold]

Rock Here is a picture of the truck. It's a 1969 International dump. (single axil). The bed is raised on cribbing to allow safe work access.
Harold