Stickmate LX...for $425, or Precision Tig 225 for ??

[Wyoming]

There is nothing wrong with a multiprocess CC/CV unit like the Miller XMT 304. If you plan to expand your reach, they're a great option. Scratch start DC TIG though. As far as the MIG operations go with that type of unit, you might be better served purchasing a stand alone MIG instead as most MIG add-ons for the multiprocess machines are geared for the professional with features you may not want or need and at a higher purchase price.

The reason I mentioned the Syncrowave is that it often comes up on the used market. Since it is a transformer based welder there is far less to go wrong with them. With a bit of looking or biding your time you should be able to pick up a 250 model, possibly with the welding leads and water cooler for less than you would pay for a new Precision TIG. Unless you are after the shiny paint job and new factory tags, I'd be nosing around the used transformer based TIG market to see what the pricing and availability would be.

Very happy with my Precision TIG 275, but purchased it used at a good price from an individual that took great care of it...and it came with the optional pulser panel and water cooler. Haven't burnt a rod with it since my Miller DialArc 250 is such a great stick machine.

[backbeat]

Thanks, Mike, for the Thermal Arc suggestion. I've got to narrow my search, so I'm going to stick to Miller and Lincoln, and keep an eye open for ESAB.

Sberry...I appreciate what you're saying, and it's obviously working for you. As a hobbyist, I enjoy the challenge. It's actually very relaxing for me. Of course it might not be, if I had to earn a living in the profession.

Thanks, usmcpop for the link. I checked it out, and there were some decent tidbits of information.

Wyoming - thanks for your thoughts, too. I believe I know what I'm getting with a PT 225, but I'm less sure of how to compare the Syncrowave 250 to the XMT 304. Every time I look at a 250, they're always in the 3k and above range. I just saw an XMT 304 - never used, for $2,100. I understand the basic differences/benefits of inverters and transformer machines. I know that the XMT is DC only, and I don't need MIG capability. I know that the XMT is rated at 225 amps (60%) for single phase, but I can't tell where it tops out with say...a 20% duty cycle.

Here's how I see it between the two Miller machines:

-Sync seems to command more dollars
-XMT seems to have slightly less power vs. the Syncrowave
-The XMT runs somewhere from 1k to the $2,100 (and above) range, but seemingly less than a Sync 250
-The XMT in most cases would need stick and TIG leads

All in all, the XMT comes up as being less expensive from what I've seen. Unless I'm giving up something that I'm not aware of, it seems to be the better value. What am I missing?

Thanks for all your advice and help!

backbeat

[usmcpop]

Used Syncrowave 250s can sometimes be had for reasonable prices. Ours is old but in great shape, as it came out of a school. Same with the Dialarc.

According to the Miller lit sheet, the XMT-304 is good for 300 Amps at 20% duty cycle (230 VAC single phase). We can't run the 250's that high as we only have a 70A breaker on it at the moment. The XMT is a more efficient welder. See the duty cycle chart:

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/DC18-8.pdf

There is a Lincoln Idealarc 250 stick/TIG on the Baltimore Craigslist for $900. It's in the same listing as a Sync 250 (odenton md).

[Blacksmith]

The OP is hard-headed like me; he's going to do what he wants, with or without us. We should just guide him to the best deal on a TIG machine. I am with Cary on this, bought the 210 MIG and never looked back. It is the go to, no, make an excuse to go to, machine. If I could weld fir 2x4's together with MIG I would.

[backbeat]

The OP is hard-headed like me; he's going to do what he wants, with or without us. We should just guide him to the best deal on a TIG machine. I am with Cary on this, bought the 210 MIG and never looked back. It is the go to, no, make an excuse to go to, machine. If I could weld fir 2x4's together with MIG I would.

Well, Blacksmith, it all depends upon who's paying the tab. If you and Cary want to ship a 210 or 252 to my home, I'll promise not to be too hard-headed.

In all seriousness, I do need to narrow this down. I've already moved (influenced by those on this forum) from an interim step of getting a Stickmate, to deciding on jumping to a TIG,stick machine. I think I would be happy with the PT 225, but the Syncrowave 250 has some appeal; although it's a little more expensive and too much for my 60 amp outlet. I'm interested in the XMT 304 that usmcpop mentioned, but still can't make sense of the lower price point. It's a lot of power and flexibility, yet as an inverter machine it seems cheaper than the Syncrowave 250 and the Maxstar 350. I realize it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but there's got to be some obvious reason that I'm missing, why this is a less expensive inverter machine, with 300 amps and I think decent features. Other than giving up AC TIG that the Syncrowave 250 has, the XMT 304 seems like a better bargain.

But I don't know.... That's why I'm asking the hard-headed experts. Sorry...couldn't resist...

P.S. - I should have also asked, how practical or impractical is it to have a machine that draws 100 amps and only supply 60? Is the current draw linear, so you could calculate the max output? Said another way - could I expect 250 amps out of a Syncrowave 250, while supplying 60 amps?

[Northweldor]

"P.S. - I should have also asked, how practical or impractical is it to have a machine that draws 100 amps and only supply 60? Is the current draw linear, so you could calculate the max output? Said another way - could I expect 250 amps out of a Syncrowave 250, while supplying 60 amps?"


Not very practical unless you seldom intend to go to above a certain setting , at the point your breaker will trip. Sberry can tell you all the details (qualified electrician).

[usmcpop]

Not to harp on the XMT, as it just happened to be on Craigslist up there, but a new bare-bones Sync 250DX is about $3,000. The XMT-304 is about $3,600. Incidentally, on the XMT - there are CC-only and CC/CV units out there. The latter is more desirable from a resale point or if you want to add a MIG feeder.

You should be good to about 200A out on a 60A breaker. (More with power factor correction caps). No worries about duty cycle.

Use Searchtempest to search Craigslist within 150 miles of your location or so. Something will turn up. A 10 year old welder with a few accessories shouldn't be more than half the cost of a new unit.

[backbeat]

"P.S. - I should have also asked, how practical or impractical is it to have a machine that draws 100 amps and only supply 60? Is the current draw linear, so you could calculate the max output? Said another way - could I expect 250 amps out of a Syncrowave 250, while supplying 60 amps?"


Not very practical unless you seldom intend to go to above a certain setting , at the point your breaker will trip. Sberry can tell you all the details (qualified electrician).

Thank you, Northweldor.

[backbeat]

Not to harp on the XMT, as it just happened to be on Craigslist up there, but a new bare-bones Sync 250DX is about $3,000. The XMT-304 is about $3,600. Incidentally, on the XMT - there are CC-only and CC/CV units out there. The latter is more desirable from a resale point or if you want to add a MIG feeder.

You should be good to about 200A out on a 60A breaker. (More with power factor correction caps). No worries about duty cycle.

Use Searchtempest to search Craigslist within 150 miles of your location or so. Something will turn up. A 10 year old welder with a few accessories shouldn't be more than half the cost of a new unit.

Okay...well, perhaps I don't have an accurate picture on the prices. The two XMTs I've seen, are both CC/CV units. Thanks for the clarification. Outside of price, size and power consumption, is there a significant difference in features? I have read the specs on both machines, but without any experience it's not easy to judge.

So, the AC225 draws less current at 225 amps, than does the Syncrowave at 200 amps? I should figure out the math on this stuff...

Thanks, usmcpop

[usmcpop]

It can happen, but there's a lot of stuff going on. The AC 225 is a tapped, AC-only unit. The Sync is a continuously-variable AC/DC unit with other circuitry and a different power factor. Perhaps not as efficient, but capable of producing a smooth output and a good deal more power. If nothing else, there's a big old fan in there.

I'll have to borrow an amp-clamp sometime and see where things fall./ AC vs. DC, TIG vs. stick mode.

[Wyoming]

We can't run the 250's that high as we only have a 70A breaker on it at the moment.

Pop, you limiting that Syncrowave due to wiring? I might have enough large ga. wire left from when I ran a 100 amp branch service for the Tig and the DialArc if your interested.

[usmcpop]

Roy,

We're doing just fine on the 70A. If we need to melt our eyebrows, we have O/A.

The garage is about 30' x 30', 2-story. There's a 100A main breaker in the garage panel, which is fed by 2/0 Aluminum from one of the two main 150A panels about 75 feet away. I figured the 70A breaker would leave a little room for some other stuff in the garage and the 3 unfinished rooms above (like the beer 'fridge). The compressor is on a 240/30 breaker and a 240/50 is shared between the DialArc and the SP-175+ as needed.

The welders are on the floor right underneath the panel, so I can run #4 wire at nominal cost to the box Brocc sent and comfortably go to 80A if needed. We're making good use of the wire you sent previously. Thanks again for that!

Sorry about the thread hijack. Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

P.S. When I said "...that high...", I meant all the way to 300A.

[usmcpop]

Nice little Syncrowave 300 for $600.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/tls/2905954620.html

[backbeat]

Nice little Syncrowave 300 for $600.

http://richmond.craigslist.org/tls/2905954620.html

Thanks for the tip, usmcpop.

[usmcpop]

It might be a deal if it works and you don't mind a 720 pound welder that would like 120 Amps to run full-out. (or about 100A if it has power factor correction.)

Miller MAxtar 150 STL on Baltimore Craigslist for $650. http://baltimore.craigslist.org/tls/2911635979.html