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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7

    Airforce 250A will not ignite/cut

    I have a Hobart AirForce 250A I cannot get it to work. I just got this "used" for christmas, I have replaced the Drag Shield, Retainer Cup, Tip, Electrode and Swirl Ring. and still cannot get it to arc.
    If I loosen the retainer cup a couple turns it will arc/ignite but will not cut, just minor gouging. if the retainer cup is tightened all the way it will not do anything.
    I am getting power, green power light comes on, and the unit powers up and compressor kicks on but it will not cut.
    Any Ideas?

    thank you
    Joe

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    Does anyone have any ideas?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,310
    Quote Originally Posted by dksob81 View Post
    Does anyone have any ideas?
    Have you gone through the trouble shooting section in the manual? What were the results? (I assume you checked your ground!)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    Don't have a manual!

    I tried a few things. I tried the old Tip and Electrode and it fires up (with the retainer cap a lil loose) and it will cut 1/8" steel but not very good but it will cut none the less. if I use the new tip and electrode it will only lightly gouge the steel. Even mixing new and used tip and electodes doesn't really help. Right now I am at a loss as to what it could be.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Columbia SC USA
    Posts
    769
    sounds to me like the swirl ring is binding up and restricting air flow ... just a thought ..
    Jim
    Jim Young
    www.jimyo.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canyon Lake, Texas
    Posts
    6,713
    I had a similar problem on my Riland (only problem ever!), even sent the unit back to California...ends up the tip, the part it screwed into, and the little nylon ring in mine were out-of-sorts because I had replaced the little nylon ring upside down (it fits right in there either way). I was embarrassed, but happy that it wasn't something serious...so...I suggest looking at an exploded parts picture of your gun (other Forum members could easily do that!), and go from there...I'm sure its a simple remedy!

    So, Jim Yo's response was right on cue...Air Flow!

    Also, now any time mine gets to acting up (seldom), I unscrew my shield and tip, then tighten up the "Inner tip" part. I know yours is completely different, but, again, its a simple fix that works for me.
    Last edited by Hotfoot; 12-31-2011 at 10:41 PM.
    "Good Enough Never Is"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    I have an exploded view of the torch setup on the machine. My swirl ring (nylon ring) only goes on one way.
    I even blew the torch out with air compressor and still cannot get it to work right.
    if I have the retainer cap tight, it will not ignite/arc. If I loosen it 1/2 turn it will ignite/arc. But with the new tip and electrode it will not put out enough to cut (only gouge) but with the old tip and electrode it will cut 1/8' steel plate but not as good as I think it should

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,310
    Quote Originally Posted by dksob81 View Post
    Don't have a manual!

    I tried a few things. I tried the old Tip and Electrode and it fires up (with the retainer cap a lil loose) and it will cut 1/8" steel but not very good but it will cut none the less. if I use the new tip and electrode it will only lightly gouge the steel. Even mixing new and used tip and electodes doesn't really help. Right now I am at a loss as to what it could be.
    Then, download one immediately!! (When "at a loss", I ALWAYS read the "manual" or "the instructions". Unfortunately, I almost never do it until I am "at a loss"!)

    http://www.hobartwelders.com/service/owners-manuals/

    Then, I would go through the procedures on page 6-5 and 6-6 of your manual and report back on the results, keeping in mind that, from the above, you are fairly sure that it is a tip/gun problem.

    BTW, kudos to Hobart for making manuals freely available to anyone who wants one. (Some sites demand proof of ownership for reasons that escape me, but must create lots of business for their support dept.)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    I followed the Troubleshooting guide and this is where I'm at:
    Press torch trigger and
    check if pilot arc ignites.
    Check torch consumables.
    *Check torch connections,
    relay CR1, gas/air system,
    and torch.

    I am ruleing out Torch consumables.
    I took the torch apart and checked the connections and nothing is loose.
    The air/Gas system seems to be working correctly (the compressor turns on and air come out of the torch)
    How do I test the CR1 relay?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,310
    Quote Originally Posted by dksob81 View Post
    I followed the Troubleshooting guide and this is where I'm at:
    Press torch trigger and
    check if pilot arc ignites.
    Check torch consumables.
    *Check torch connections,
    relay CR1, gas/air system,
    and torch.

    I am ruleing out Torch consumables.
    I took the torch apart and checked the connections and nothing is loose.
    The air/Gas system seems to be working correctly (the compressor turns on and air come out of the torch)
    How do I test the CR1 relay?
    I think you have already established that this relay is working, since your unit cuts with the old consumables, but have you checked the "Shield Cup Shutdown System" as per the instructions on page 6-2, and, are your replacement consumables genuine Hobart parts?

    "if I have the retainer cap tight, it will not ignite/arc. If I loosen it 1/2 turn it will ignite/arc. But with the new tip and electrode it will not put out enough to cut (only gouge) but with the old tip and electrode it will cut 1/8' steel plate but not as good as I think it should"

    You said this earlier, and to me, it indicates that the new consumables you installed ARE the problem. If the answer is yes to the above questions, your next step should be to contact Hobart tech. support at the number in the front of the manual. Let us know about the result.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    The new consumable are not HOBART they are MILLER (consumables kit Pt.# 222938)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Calgary
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    Quote Originally Posted by dksob81 View Post
    The new consumable are not HOBART they are MILLER (consumables kit Pt.# 222938)
    This, as we all know, is not important, as long as they are the right set according to your manual.

    Edit: I just looked at your manual and the consumables part# is 197336 for the ICE - 12C, so you better check to make sure you've got the right set.
    Last edited by Northweldor; 01-03-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,310
    Also, below are some suggestions, from Hobart moderator Keith, from another thread. Check especially #3 and#4.

    Hobart Expert Keith
    Hobart Expert Keith is offline Moderator Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    488

    5 Keys to a good cut

    Suggestions from our plasma techs

    5 Keys to a good cut
    1) Work Clamp, needs a good electrical connection. If you are cutting on rusty, galvanized, painted or dirty material you will need to grind off a place for the work clamp, the torch will cut through just fine though.

    2) Consumables, If they are worn then it will cause arc outages. Check your manual for information on when to change the consumables

    3) Standoff distance, Remember electricity is lazy it wants to take the path or least resistance. If you get too far away from the work piece resistance between the work piece and electrode (cutting circuit) is much higher than the resistance between the tip and electrode (pilot circuit). This will cause the machine to stay in pilot and shut off after the five seconds.

    4) Retaining cup, If the cup is on too tight it prevents the electrode from moving freely. This will in turn prevent the arc from transferring.

    5) Air supply, if there is any moisture in the air supply then it can prevent arc transfer and arc outages.

    The swirl ring can be installed either direction according to our plasma techs.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Northweldor View Post
    This, as we all know, is not important, as long as they are the right set according to your manual.

    Edit: I just looked at your manual and the consumables part# is 197336 for the ICE - 12C, so you better check to make sure you've got the right set.


    I have tried to google search for this parts kit but I cannot find anything.
    When I search for consumables parts for the ICE-12C I come up with the one I have.

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