multi plaz ?

[mudbug]

I think the MagneGas needs a hydrogen type regulator instead of an Acetylene regulator.

I have to agree about the plasma cutter...it was my first metalworking machine even before a welder. I watched one in use 15 years before I bought one and was facinated by how it operated. When the chance to purchase one came up I just bought it and then learned how to use it... Now I have two..... and several machines that make re-assembling those cut up pieces of metal simpler...LOL

I never liked O/A tanks & torches and still don't,but there are times that an O/A torch rig would be handy to heat metal for bending or to heat rusted things for disassembly and some things might be easier cut with an O/A rig. Have you used the Multi Plaz as a heating source in this way? Not having access to one I'm just wondering if this is possible with the Multi Plaz torch.

Around the shop though a plasma cutter is a plug and go item,so as long as they make electricity it works for most everything I do.

I guess that's one reason I'm facinated by the Multi Plaz unit and why I'm following this with interest. I was always around the various cutting welding machines/tools my whole life,but never involved in a hands on way until a few years ago... I just didn't know what I was missing. I'm still wondering how I made it this far before learning how to use the various metalworking tools I now own. I'm still learning everytime I use one and cussing myself because I remember all the times in years gone by that I depended on someone else to fix or build something for me...

The point is I'm not so set in my ways about different methods of fabrication that I can't be curious about a 'new' method of accomplishing an end result... It allows me the freedom to think outside that old school box and be curious about new technology like the Multi Plaz. It might not be for everyone,but then it might be the new way to go too.... It has to be tried and researched to determine that though and I won't dismiss it as a process without giving it a fair shake.

I never cared for stick welding when younger,but now I own 4 stick machines that all have different qualities and I'm really enjoying the process now. My little 100A DC inverter is a wonder...it surprises me everytime I pick it up at 7.5# to fix something. Most of the oldtime welders that see it laugh at it until I force them to try it out... most of them are stunned and keep looking at it like it's a voodo doll.... New technology! My AC welder weighs 400# and Yes it will weld big things,but then most things aren't big or thick so the 100A unit can do it.

So keep us updated on the Multi Plaz Ian, It's new,It's different,& It might be more usable than anyone seems to think....I'm still facinated by it...

[mudbug]

I think I discovered why this isn't so well known in the US...

http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/nw/25234/tt

It's only been marketed here for a few months even though the system has been sold in Europe for some time.

I also found the manufacturer in China... (It was developed in Europe,but it's made in China)

http://www.gmdu.net/corp-679078.html

I think as knowledge and usage increases this might catch on as a usable tool... a few months is hardly enough time for it to become accepted.

I also discovered there are two torches for this machine.. a welding & a cutting ....this wasn't mentioned before.

http://tharwavalleyforge.com/worksho...eview-unboxing

[GilaSlim]

Keep in mind, those two links are both press releases by the sellers. Kinda like all the TV commercials for miracle weight loss products, and male enhancement pills...

Still no word on verifiable independant lab tests.

[ptsideshow]

If you are referring to the Multi plaz 2500 it was originally invented in Russia and if they are saying that it only has been for sale for a couple months in the USA they are spouting crap and BS again. The people that have the current US distributorship have had it for only a couple of months. Somebody has been humping the system for a long time. I known that I first seen the web site back in 06/07.

The 3500 is the new version only been out for a couple of months. Same crap they always have humped borderline truth and BS.
They just don't get it if they would just do some real world tests they would make more sales.
That is way I'm glad that Bill is doing them so we have some thing to compare it too.

Not that I would buy one, since I'm happy with my torches and welders and plasma cutters. But it is interesting, I have a friend that has a tool and machine business. He was contacted by the company in China that makes them, and their claims were even more inflated with B.S. They wanted him to be the Midwest seller. This was a couple of months ago, I have to say he has declined.

[mudbug]

Russia ? I thought it was Poland or one of those surrounding countries.

I'm not pushing this on anyone BTW....The discussion came up and I find it interesting enough to research it in more depth than the scarce information that barely surfaces when looking it up.

The first news release only presents the 'new' 3500 unit to the marketplace earlier this year.

I included the manufacturer in China just because I discovered it & figured it might interest someone.

That 3rd link only shows the entire package and what's included in it (It's a 2 part link) It shows everything instead of just the torch and the power box.

I even watched videos (in Russian I guess) and there was very little additional visual information provided on them.

This still reminds me of a Henrob torch ,but without the O/A tanks which is probably the most attractive aspect of this system...No tanks. The torch heats things up and then you use filler rod...you change the torch and then you can cut without tanks.

I wonder if this machine could be run from a generator ? That would make it more mobile for field use.

[billbong]

Hi, as far as I know you can run anything on a generator.....PROVIDED......the voltage and frequency are as per mains frequency and you have enough amps available.

That is, 240 volts AC, 50/60 Hertz, and minimum 10 amps, but 15 amps is the machines preferred supply current, and you want to be able to maintain the supply current at 10 to 15 amps when loaded, no piddly camping genny that gets hot under the collar when you switch a load on.

The Multiplaz unit in carry bag weighs 20lb total all up, inverter power supply and two torches, welding and cutting, so is pretty portable in itself and each torch weighs about 1lb each.

You can do heating quite well, (in mode #1) by just keeping the torch further away from the job to widen the heat source, which is great for brazing, silver soldering etc, and you can also weld or cut in total darkness, due to the arc formed inside the torch making a cone of light about 4" diam as it exits through the 2.2mm hole in the nozzle and illuminates the job.

There are two torches in the kit, one set up for welding mode, and the other set up for cutting.....both torches are identical and can do both functions by changing the nozzle and inside bits as required.

I would have to say that when you have a need for a certain method of.... whatever....then whatever you see that fits that bill is the way you'd take more than just a glance at and dismiss as "can't imagine what I'd do with that gizmo" attitude.

Personally, I'd recommend a real life demo, hands on, to make anyone commit, and as things turned out I was satisfied that the unit fitted MY needs at the first demo test.....others may need different factors for their professional work loads, and it may not meet with the "one does all" approach...who knows, "if'n you never never go you'll never never know".

Did a bit of alluminium tubing welding, but still have to take some pics...so next post.
Ian.

[billbong]

And now some pics of the deadly Alluminium trial, first time ever for me.

They're nothing to get excited about except the last one with the hole in it is a typical example of melting the job by putting too much heat slowly for too long a time....melt down.

The learning curve so far is 1/2 hour on the ally.....I expect by the time I've put about 1,000 hours on ally I'll get good at it....LOL....but I don't expect to do too much of ally welding in the future as most of my projects are in steel one way or another, but ally expertise is another string to my bow.

One good thing, you don't get those thick acidy fumes from the Plasma welding method, not like Tig, or Mig welding where the air can get quite fumy and toxic, but perhaps I'm not getting in too close with the pointy bit of the plasma and only just melting the joint, as was evident in the last pic of the tubing with the corner weld that went into a hole. A few more trial runs are called for.

PS. note the lack of distortion, as the parts were just laid on the fire brick without any clamping.
Ian.

[mudbug]

I'd say you're doing just fine for a first attempt. Until I got to the last photo I was thinking those were solid aluminum bars then realised you were welding sq. tubes which is much harder to do.

Thanks for sharing your results with us.... Much more informative than the factory videos....

You touched on the question I asked earlier about using the MP torch to heat metal in order to bend it like a regular O/A torch is sometimes used for. Could you expand your impression of the MP torch being used in such manner?

Having a plasma cutter makes cutting metal with an O/A torch foolish given the gas cost,but a plasma cutter can't heat metal so it can be formed or bent like can be done with an O/A torch. If the MP torch can be utilized in that manner,I would think it actually could replace an O/A torch.

From the quick videos it "looks" as if just heating a section of metal is possible with the MP torch so you could bend the part,but you would be better able to answer that question I'm sure.

You're having fun with your torch aren't you? Can't say I blame you.

[billbong]

Hi Muddy, With the Alluminium test to my satisfaction, I'll give the outfit 9/10 and wait for the stainless test to see how the rest turns out.

About 10 years ago when I first came across a Plasma cutting torch proper, at my mates workshop, I dreamed of the torch being adapted to do heating like an Oxy torch, but the principle, though similar, was not the same as the Multiplaz.

I can say from my experiences that the heating ability and the compact shape make this a good investment for me, as I envisage a lot of brazing and silver soldering in the future, a process that I used to do with a Sievert Propane torch and BBQ bottled gas.

I think I might even get rid of the Propane torch too as it represents just another item I won't be using, so more funds to spend on my secret wish list....an Ipad2 64Gb 3G....Hee Hee...never too old to play.

If'n you wanted to heat a piece of 3/8" thick X 2" steel bar to put a right angle bend in it, then you just apply the heat at the line of bend and away it goes, I know one thing for sure, if'n you heat the end of a 1" diam steel bar and wack it with a hammer the end mushrooms out beut.

When I was apprentice, the boilermakers and welders informed me that you can't heat cold chisels and other carbon tools with Oxy/Acetylene to forge them because the Oxygen makes the steel brittle, so I expect the Plasma heating method is another top point earner.

The electricity is converted directly to heat without going through a gas phase, so there are no products of combustion to contaminate a weld/braze junction.

The heat's there, you just have to apply it as you need it.

BTW, for what it's worth, it also cuts ANY high alloy steel, such as HSS, stainless steel, armour plate, spring steel, Chrome Vanadium steel, cast iron too....and if'n you really have to .....ceramic tiles and quartz glass too, and one day I'll put that mode through a test as well.

It's mentioned somewhere that you can also do Ceramic glazing on stainless and copper without resorting to a furnace, and I expect you could also do that fancy glasswork that you see the guys do making those Swans and other figurines by melting the glass and twisting it into weird shapes, maybe a bit of glass blowing too....hmmmmmmm.

In the handbook there's a materials chart to show what materials you can weld/braze to what materials, and one shows brazing stainless to alluminium, now that's pretty interesting...there's a list of practically every metal bonding to any other metal, so there's plenty of room for experiment.
Ian.

[mudbug]

That's as I suspected as far as heating metal is concerned. I would place that ability in the plus column for this machine. Heating metal to be able to shape it is something that O/A is good for,but if the MP torch can even come close without the expense of tanks & gas I'd say it's useful.

Around here a set of medium sized tanks cost upwards of $600 plus the hassel not to mention the weight.

Cutting,welding,heating.... no tank rental or purchase...no gas purchase....no running out of gas.... Your new toy is starting to look better & better....and cheaper in the long run.....even after the inital $2000.

I'm sure not everyone would be happy with this machine,but in light of costs and availability of the conventional methods of working metal I can see that the 21st century has arrived.... The only real question will be dependability & longevity of this particular machine.

I'm glad this is working out for you as you envisioned it. I'd like to have the chance to try one out,but until they are more widely distributed that's not happening. It's still a very interesting machine and your impressions of it haven't exhibited much negative press on it.

Thanks for your opinions.... Though there aren't many other comments... I see there are over 2000 hits to this thread,so someone is watching...LOL

[ptsideshow]

Just to let you know, Multiplaz is running an advertisement in the current issue July/August of The Home shop Machinist magazine. It should be available at the big box book store or larger hobby shops near you.
The same kind of hype as the web site only in print. Gives the usual web site for more info. and somebodies name as an email contact @ their web email.
It does say that the heavy duty cathodes and nozzles will need to be replaced about 10 hours.
Just got my copy today.

[mudbug]

That brings up something... Consumables ?

What do the nozzles & those cathodes cost ?

I can't imagine the nozzles being more than some Plasma cutter tips I've seen advertised. The Cathodes might be another matter.... I don't know enough about the unit to venture a guess. Ten hours of use sounds like a pretty long life span for consumables though.

I wonder why the manufacturer hasn't approached something like welding forums in an effort to display their machine to those that might actually use it.

[ptsideshow]

My impression is they don't have a clue about what it really does, or can do. They want to strictly spam the forums with links. The forum that the publisher of the magazine operates, had to remove their spam link posts, as they contained no useful content.
Mostly a Husband/wife operation as one post was a women the next a guy. This is my opinion, could be somebody that has their 401k or retirement money tied up in being the big dog in the next big thing according to the company.
Probably a sales type and not a metal worker. A couple of the other welding forums would probably say send us one and then tell them to F off. If only because of the dreaded C word in were it is made.

[billbong]

I think you're right PT, on the people who are promoting the units outside China, agents don't have to know what they're selling or how the thing works.

The problem with salesmen et al, are they're just that...sales people....."knowing" the product, probably comes from the paperwork and videos......hee hee....maybe I could apply to be a demonstarator and get freebies for anyone I demo to.....hmmmmm....gotta check the post to see if'n my freebies have arrived...oooooops, slipped up....only kidding...no vested interests.....but it goes to show you how a thriving business could be set-up by someone in the weld game doing a hands on test at your place and getting commission for it.

BTW, on the subject of consumeables, the kit has a number of "bits and pieces" supplied with it and so you should have a fair bit of life expecrtancy from the word go, but I'll contact my unit supplier to see how much the various bits and pieces go at.....that could be the Achiles heel if'n the bits and pieces cost an arm and a leg.

The most wearable part is the copper tip, and as this appears to be just a round piece of shaped copper that fits onto the end and is locked in with a screwed collar, I might, if'n the replacement cost is high, have a go at turning up my own or even making a die and pressing/forging them myself.

The inner parts might be a different story, so as soon as I have a gander at the inner parts in the kit, I'll see how complicated they are to make replacements.
I should think that, like plasma cutting torches, you'll be able to get the consumeables straight off the shelf once they get stocked.....early days yet.

For a start, anyone contemplating going in for one of these units (at $2,000 a go) has to have definite ideas on what they want it for, especially if'n they already have quality Mig, Tig, Stick and Plasma cutting equipment, and use the stuff for they're daily workload......noobies are at risk in this scenario, as the aspect of a one size fits all, instant business in a shoe box etc, is a temptation to lash out and crash burn when they can't get it to perform, either from lack of experience or because one size doesn't fit all their requirements.

As for me, the gas bottle goes back maybe tomorrow, and later probably an assesment for the reduction in welding gear holdings, but they can just as well sit in the corner covered in a sheet and wait to see how things turn out....you never get your full value when you sell your gear anyway, and have to pay top dollar to get it back again.

I'm happy to say that I can do all the jobs and some more with this unit, provided the consumeables are available and don't suddenly dry up due to lack of unit sales......then I'll be in the poo...LOL.

So far 9/10...stainless steel to go next.
Ian.

[mudbug]

I contacted the manufacturer in China today by Email...I'll see what happens.

I intend to call the distributor in L.A. also for more info.