Welding Aluminum Boat?

[usmcpop]

Here's just the stuff:

[yorkiepap]

Hey Peter,
I would surmise you took some of the responses as an insult to your intelligence level. Nothing could be further from the truth. The experienced fellows here who weld alum. daily have gone thru the trials/tribulations & migraine headaches associated with aluminum. We are just attempting to give you an understanding of issues with aluminum.

If you are determined to repair the boat, your success "may" happen if you had 6-12 mos. of practice on aluminum of the same gauge. .100 thickness is near 13ga., & the boat is probably more in the 16ga(.062) range. You are most welcome to burn all the wire/filler & gas you choose to attempt this repair..... it's your $$$. Practicality would be more of considerations to do some serious practice/seat time with the same gauge material to determine your progression towards success. Aluminum is its' own world...... go ahead & explore it.

Denny

[SundownIII]

OH,

And I forgot to mention, buy plenty of tungstens.

When you hit those oxidized spots you'll get lots of "popping" which will immediately trash your tungsten.

[peter94]

Thanks for the advice there Pangea. You have been particularly worthless in helping me do anything. The reason I came here was for advice on how to start this. Were you born with a welding rod in your hand? You had to start somewhere.

Your first comment stated I can't do this. That drives me crazy. Why would you tell someone who is interested in learing welding aluminum that they cannot do it. Here's a better way of approaching it:

"Peter, welding aluminum is very difficult and you would be best suited by practicing first. Cut x amount of cards that are the same thickness of the aluminum on the boat and try practicing on them. See how your welds come out."

Then maybe give me some tips on how to improve my results based on the problems I'm having.

SundownIII, even though your recommendations on the machine and materials appear to be sarcastic, I do appreciate the recommendation on the machine. Purchasing a new tool would be something I can consider to do this correctly as it would last me for a long time and expand my capabilities and skills.

That being said, what other TIG machines would you guys recommend for a beginner. I looked at the Hobart EZ TIG, and the Miller Diversion 165 and 180. Thoughts?

Am I a stubborn person who gets an idea in his head and wont listen to reason? No!

I just would rather be coached on how to do it correctly instead of flat out saying I cannot do this. Never said I want to do this tommorow, if it will take 6 months of practice before I can weld aluminum competently then thats how long I will wait.

Thanks to all of you who have contributed in a meaningful way.

The hull of the boat is .100"

[Pangea]

I apologize. Go ahead with you plan. I was wrong, you should buy the boat and sink plenty of time and effort into it. Expand your horizons in the welding field. It's a piece of cake. A caveman could do it. That's why everyone is a welder, it's so easy. Especially aluminum that has been exposed to water and everything else that a boat has in it.

Good luck.

PS wear good gloves and sleeves because that thin skin of yours is in for a world of hurt.

[GilaSlim]

SundownIII, even though your recommendations on the machine and materials appear to be sarcastic, I do appreciate the recommendation on the machine. Purchasing a new tool would be something I can consider to do this correctly as it would last me for a long time and expand my capabilities and skills.

Peter, you should be aware that Pangea and Sundown III both have decades of experience welding aluminum.

Sundown III makes his living doing repairs on aluminum boats. Many times, he is repairing fixes made by amateurs. He was not being in the slightest bit sarcastic. He has given you the best advice you will ever get. If the smaller, simpler machines you mentioned were appropriate for the extensive repairs you are considering, he probably would be using them in his business.

Your 0.100" hull is closest to 12 guage (0.109").

Good luck with your project.

[peter94]

Thats great that you both have so much welding experience here. But the fact remains the purpose of me starting this thread and joining this forum is so I can learn how to do something new. Not so I can be told that I can't do something. I bet Pangea at some point didn't have any experience. By doing things like this is how you get experience. I mean honestly Pangea you have not made one helpful comment this whole thread.

[peter94]

Oh and an off topic pun from Pangea's post...."You should buy the boat and SINK plenty of time and effort into it...."

Just thought that was funny since a boat with holes in it sinks... ha ha.

I didn't start this thread with the intention of starting a war, and by no means do I think welding aluminum is so easy "a caveman could do it".

Just because its a skill that takes many years to master, doesn't mean I dont want to learn how to do it. Maybe someday I'll be as good as you guys, but it takes that first step to make it happen. That is what I'm trying to do here, and that is why it irritates me when people are negative about me wanting to learn this.

So I'll be the first guy to step in and say I'm sorry for offending anyone, coming off stubborn, or just ticking anyone off.

[Pangea]

If you had any idea how many times I (and SundownerIII) have had to crawl down inside /under and around boats that people with good intentions have tried to "fix" you would understand the pessimism.

Good luck with your project, sincerely.

Since I have nothing of value to offer you; and you wont take DON"T DO IT for an answer, I will refrain from answering any of your posts in the future.

[peter94]

Pangea,

Never said you didn't have anything to offer, just said all of your posts thus far have not contained any informaiton that is helpful to me.

The reason I dont take "Dont Do it" for an answer is because if I never try welding anything aluminum, I will never gain any experience welding aluminum, and therefore always be inexperienced.

If I practice, and then take on this project, I'll gain hands on experience with welding aluminum.

Do you see my point?

[Hotfoot]

Pangea,

Never said you didn't have anything to offer, just said all of your posts thus far have not contained any informaiton that is helpful to me.

The reason I dont take "Dont Do it" for an answer is because if I never try welding anything aluminum, I will never gain any experience welding aluminum, and therefore always be inexperienced.

If I practice, and then take on this project, I'll gain hands on experience with welding aluminum.

Do you see my point?

I see it!...but I also want to see pictures of your experiment!...remember, failure pictures are very bit as valuable as perfect finished welds. We all learn, one way or another!

You are braver than me!

[GilaSlim]

The reason I dont take "Dont Do it" for an answer is because if I never try welding anything aluminum, I will never gain any experience welding aluminum, and therefore always be inexperienced.

Nobody said "Don't weld aluminum."

They are saying -
1. It takes years of experience fabricating and repairing non-boat aluminum before you will be ready to tackle a boat, (the water soaked boat is a whole 'nother ball game) and
2. If the boat is as badly damaged as you have made it sound, even a professional in boat repair would probably turn the job down, the cost and problems make it cheaper to just buy another boat.

[urch55]

Anyone,
Is there a benefit (other that being lighter) of having a aluminum hull vs a fiber glass hull?? I can understand it on a small boat like a Jon boat or dingy to where you can just throw it in back of a pickup and launch it anywhere but what about the bigger ones. Seams like the aluminum ones are a hassle for repair and maintenance.

Peter,
If you find out from the manufacturer how much the hull weighs, find the local scrap prices paid for sheet aluminum. Do the math on what the scrap value is and offer that amount for the boat. Maybe a few bucks more for the engine if it's any good. This way you can't lose and you have some experience not only welding aluminum but also what the value is and if some thing is worth it or not, for future jobs that may come about.
I wounder if the owner of the boat has already had a welder/boat repair shop look at it and that is why He/She is selling it.

[yorkiepap]

Hey Peter,
To help "smooth out the waters" a bit, I will attempt to highlight the responses you have received to clarify our position with your query.

Your initial thread post stated you have a 125A MIG & all indications were that you were going to use that.... nothing was interpreted differently, thus my response regarding MIG. Later posting by you indicated you did not have any training, nor a metallurgy comprehension, & some success although not detailed. You did not elaborate that you would consider another more appropriate process(TIG) & acquire a unit to do it, & possibly some training by a professional welding program.

Ok, now you get responses from some of we "seasoned" weldors that your project will be an effort in futility & that basis was determined by your responses & info.. Do you see where we are coming from? As an 'ol timer w/47 yrs experience in every process, there are applications I have no experience with & would never attempt unless I received extended & extensive training & practice, no matter how much desire I have to learn it. Does this make sense to you? I know I have a few years on both SundownIII & Pangea & we are from the "old school" methodology of providing first class work...... nothing less is acceptable. So, our responses were simply attempting to illuminate your commendable desire that you were not capable to repair such a project with all the data YOU provided. And, as GilaSlim responded, both SundownIII & Pangea were very experienced with aluminum & marine repairs & their reasoning was valid because they had seen such repairs done by "hobby" weldors & in many cases were unrepairable because of poor initial attempts to fix. Just re-read all the posts from beginning & see if you can follow the respondents reasoning with all the information you listed in the sequence of posts. Don't take any offense..... all we can do is try to help you save some $$$ & aggravation/frustration by learning the correct procedures when evaluating any project.

Denny

[peter94]

I guess one thing that I didn't make clear is I am buying this boat for the value of the trailer its sitting on. I am not buying this boat only so I can save a few bucks on a fishing boat. I am buying it with the intent of being a project and a learning experience.

I did go and reread the posts. Posts 2,4,5 were helpful.

Post #6 basically said I cannot do it, and just to take it somewhere without offering any reasoning besides you need a sharp hand and eye.

Why cant I do it? Dont have the right machine? What makes my machine bad for this? One thing I've learned is that its hard to push the wire up to the gun, which is where a spool gun appears to be handy. Maybe it cannot regulate the current down far enough to avoid burning holes in the boat?

These are things I'm wondering, and this is why I dont like a simple "NO" answer.

Post#7 was good, said I didn't offer enough information, which led me to my next post describing my experience, and the type of material we are dealing with

Posts#8-9 were a little disturbing

Post#10 asked some good questions which never got answered

Post#13 offered no helpful information

Post#14 questioned the thickness of the material which I then verified is in fact .100" thick, but otherwise had good recommendations for learing how to TIG.

Post#15 was of no help, telling me to cut my boat up into 2x5 coupons for practice

Post#16 made me laugh, but again, was no help

Post#17 was helpful, but again questioned the material thickness that I had already verified at .100"

Post#18 offered some information

Post#20 was Pangea acting like a hurt child

Post#21 described the skill level of Pangea and SundownIII, Which is great, but does not help me unless they are willing to offer suggestions instead of just telling me to take it to a professional.

Post#23 was Pangea acting like a hurt child again

Post#26 was helpful

Post#27 Yes, Pangea said dont attempt to do this, take it to a professional.

Post#28 I have looked at the scrap value for boats. If this boat cannot be repaired, I can sell the trailer for what I paid for everything, and then sell the boat as scrap for a profit.

Post#29 I do see your point, its a good one too. You are one of the few who seem to actually be willing to help. If you look at all 29 previous posts, minus the 8 of mine leaves 21 posts

Out of those 21:
7 offered relevant information
2 were about colonoscopys
12 contained various bits of information that was not relevant to my initial post.

Can you now see my point about why I am frustrated with this? I just want to learn how to do this, and hopefully put that to use by trying to repair a boat. Out of now 30 posts, 7 of them actually contained a little information on how to help me.