The Saw Family.....Tree

[vicegrip]

Much like welders, other than a hack-saw, the average guy just didn't
have one several decades ago. Had to find a shop for serious sawing.

Since so many home-shop folks visit this forum, heres some back-ground
on metal-cutting saws.

Adam, the power-hack-saw.
Then came the vertical band-saw.
Then the floor-saw (horizontal-band-saw).
Then the chop-saw (abrasive wheel).
Then the cold-saw Circular solid wheel (With teeth).
Then the dry-cut sister to the cold-saw.

The neat thing is that the order of usefullness and condition-tolleration,
for general trouble-free one-of kind and odd-job cutting is just about the same.
Blade cost also the same order.

Most power-hack-saws in even reasonable condition, will cut thru
just about what-ever will fit in the vise, as long as the teeth-count
is above minimum for wall-thickness, and ya don't over-speed them.
Blade-cost is lowest.

The vertical-band-saw actually was born BIG, really BIG.
This for cutting wood for patterns for casting iron.
The saws were so rigid and well built, that geared down they could also
cut metal.

The floor saw (horizontal-band-saw) was actually prefected in Germany.
And unperfected here in the U S . They work much better when the blade
is fed out and up into the work instead of pulled toward the back.
The blade gets a good square attack that way and enters the work close
to the saw-frame pivot point.
Blade cost a tad more per cut then power-hack-saw blades,
and the guides need to be kept true and in good working order.

The abrasive chop-saw is suposed to be a HIGH-POWERED tool!
In the indutrial version, the blade is "perishable" and perish it does.
The horse-power is about 5HP for 12" and 7-10 for 18" and so-on.
The home version is good to about a 3/4" round part.
After that there is no-where near enough H.P. to get good brake-down,
and the wheels tend to load up with the waste metal.

The cold saw was intended for cuts of higher-accuracy of both squareness
and part lenght. The tooth shape helps generate burr-free cuts.
Blade expence is now climbing, and saw-frame / vise rigidity becomes
more important.

Dry-cut intended for use in "free-cutting" materials metal and non-metal.
Emphasis on dry......because some parts simply have to remain clean and
dry to continue being manufactured.

For general and home-use, your potencial for problems goes up
as you go down this list. I'm not diss'ing any class of saws.
Just adding food for thought to the mix. Before alot of home-shop
funding is layed out.

VG

[Brad54]

That's a **** fine post! Very useful information there.

There was a power hack saw on Craigslist here in Atlanta a few weeks ago, and I didn't have the heart to drag it home--I've got a GREAT Craftsman abrasive wheel saw (a discontinued model: cast metal base, offset arbor, raised hinge to cut through the material with the heart of the blade... awesome saw, but they discontinued it recently. It was new to their catalog about 6 or 8 years ago). After the chop saw, I bought a Chinese 4x6 horizontal band saw at my swap meet, and it was surprisingly good. Internet searches on 4x6 saws show they have a great following, and a well-earned reputation. It was nearly new, and I paid $100 for it.
Kept it for 5 years, used it a good bit, and sold it last month for $150 twenty minutes after throwing it up on Craigslist! Replaced it with a Shop Fox 5x6 band horizontal band saw--beefy construction, excellent base, and a fantastic vise/miter capability. After some trading, I got it for what amounted to "free" though it needs a new hydraulic feed ram, or this one needs to be repaired. I expect excellent things from this saw.

The other saws on your list would be great to have, but at some point, at least in my shop, redundancy becomes an issue.

Do you have any guidance for tooth-count for different materials?
-Brad

[vicegrip]

Do you have any guidance for tooth-count for different materials?
-Brad

Tooth-count generalities are posted all over.
I might mention that the importance is directly related to
the type of and consistancy of your down-feed system.

And uniformaty of cross-section. Gravity feed can't tollerate
big variations in blade contact, so the need to have the minimum
number of teeth in the work is paramount.

A good hydro-bleed is more tollerant, and incremented feed
is good too. My 100 year old Marvel kicks a wedge out
at the end of each stroke, so if the stock thins out
the blade-frame isn't free to free-fall and rip teeth out.

VG

[MagGeorge]

Helpful information here. Looks like I could use this one.

[Blacksmith]

Yikes, I remember the power hacksaw as cutting edge (no pun intended) when I was in high school. I am old! Everybody would try to crowd or rush it and break the blade.

[canoecruiser]

VG, your writeup covers a lot of good info. If you don't mind, I have a few questions, so here goes....

You mentioned that the horizontal band-saw "The blade gets a good square attack that way and enters the work close to the saw-frame pivot point." In other words, do you mean that the blade, where it contacts the work, describes the tightest arc or circle as possible? As I try to visualize this the blade would seem to not be as square to the work as if it were to be as far from the pivot point where the saw swings downwards. And as a side-question, would there be any benefit if a horizontal band-saw, instead of pivoting at one end, were to be held perfectly horizontal while being lowered through the work, say if it were to slide downwards on two vertical posts or leadscrews, one on each end? I would think if this did convey a meaningful improvement they would be on the market when an optimum cut was required. Just curious....

Your comment regarding a cold saw needing rigid supports possibly sheds some light on what I've seen when taking a blade rated for a higher speed and putting it in a Skilsaw repurposed for cutting 1/8" aluminum diamond plate. It worked fine until one day when I didn't support the work that well and the aluminum bent upwards while cutting. The blade shed several teeth on that one cut whereas up to that point it had held up very well. Is it that side-loading is particularly destructive to the teeth? It makes sense as I picture it in my mind that it would push the teeth sideways and break the brazed joint.

At work we have a Wilton vertical bandsaw with a coarse tooth count, maybe 8 to 12 per inch. It cuts thin aluminum stock mostly and much of the time can't have more than two teeth in contact at any time, if that many. It violates the "3 tooth minimum" rule I read about so much. I always feed it very slowly the few times I use it but others just ram it through and perhaps it's time to ask the machinist why we don't have a finer pitch blade in it, seeing as how the shear tops out at about 0.050" sheet.

Thanks in advance.....

Brad54, sounds like a great collection of vintage Detroit Iron! Can't resist a shout out to ya.

[vicegrip]

Wells makes a great two-post saw. The frame comes str8 down.
A pretty good performer for it's weight too.

======================================
"The blade gets a good square attack that way and enters the work close to the saw-frame pivot point." In other words, do you mean that the blade, where it contacts the work, describes the tightest arc or circle as possible? As I try to visualize this the blade would seem to not be as square to the work as if it were to be as far from the pivot point where the saw swings downwards. =============

The reasons (it seems) that this arangement works better
would need closer examination to be clear,
but "better" it does, much better.
vg