Help identifying old gas drive

[acwd1950]

Trace the wires and see where they go. One pair of them will need to be connected for it to work. As it is right now it wont work because the machine doesnt know if the amperage control is connected or not. Do you have a wiring diagram for it? If I had it I could tell you what wires done what. One of the wires should go to a plug for the remote control. Just guessing without seeing it.

Steve

[therrera]

Hello all,

I determined which wires are local/remote (partially). the two yellow wires each go to the remote plug and the fine adjustment rheostat respectively. Thus I can rule out one wire right off the bat (the one going to the remote plug) which leaves my choices for the fine control to just one of two wires to connect to the other yellow wire, the red or the green (actually green and white).


I tried these but the welder did not produce any welding current. The next step in the plan was to "flash" the exciter as I have read about in other posts. Upon removing the generator cover I discovered that 4 out of the 8 brushes were damaged and missing the pigtail connecting them to the wiring.

Not to mention that I found a rat's nest and tons of rat dropping, nest material, etc. I cleaned all that out and just got through ordering 9 new brushes from Arrowhead Electric Company (http://www.carbonbrush.com/hobartbrush.htm). They have a Hobart page and you provide the dimensions and specs from your original brush and match it to their online grid of brushes. The model I ordered is the W63 which matched mine exactly. We'll see when I get them if I was right, but their measurements matched mine, so I can't see a problem. I should get them within 2 to 5 days.

I then proceeded to bang out some dents on the sheet metal, remove all the gauges and electrical plugs (both 110v and 220v) from the front panel, cut off remnants of the frame mounting iron going to it's original trailer and grinding the old welds flush (it is going on a home made trailer) in preparation of a new paint job.

Questions:

Where can I locate new gauges for this thing? Are the original ones standard size? This model has two AC ammeters, an AC and DC voltmeter, oil pressure (that one is a NAPA store item for sure), and I even found a disconnected AIR PRESSURE gauge????? What was this for and where did it get its pressure from? Is it an air pressure or vacuum gauge connected to the Willy's 4 banger? I have never seen a setup like this before.

Anyone got any answers, thoughts on this stuff?

Attached are the final pics of the trailer prior to getting its paint job too. It has brackets for 4 bottles. I will set it up with Oxyacetylene bottles, an argon bottle and a co2 bottle. It also has a fold down work bench for on site fabrication with a little comfort. The tailgate doubles as a mini workbench for the little stuff. I will be adding a vice to the plate seen in the picture. I bought the trailer used and it came with an gas driven air compressor which will go mounted in front of the Hobart crosswise, the Welder will mount lengthwise in the center of the trailer. I added the rack (adapted from a friend's pickup), the tailgate and fold down table. It will have a hose reel attached on the front.

I am taking advantage of a slow down in work to get this done. I am seriously considering selling my welding rig and going with this trailer. My rig is an old 60's era NATO Mercedes Unimog TLF-4 firetruck, converted into a field welding shop. Fun to drive, can go where others only dream of, gets a lot of looks, but expensive on gas and not comfortable AT ALL! At my age, I think I need at least a LITTLE creature comfort (air conditioning, stereo, radio, etc.). Don't you? Pictures attached too.

Thanks for any help,

Tony

[shanghyd]

I like the Mercedes!

[therrera]

Hello All,

I am just getting off of being knocked out of commission due to a bum knee. The welder is getting prepped for painting tomorrow as is the trailer. I installed the new brushes and tested with the same result.

Another member on the list brought to my attention that capacitors that hold a charge and are installed on the armature or ring plates may be bad or missing. I will check on this tomorrow. I am still missing a manual that covers my machine as the lack of a name plate on it prevents me from getting an accurate wiring diagram. I still don't know how the remote/local switch should be wired. The manual I was able to obtain using a generic spec number shows six wires going to the remote/local switch, where my welder only has four wires going to it.

I did notice that the on the stator rings, two of the eight brushes don't have any leads coming from or going to them. The brush lead for these two just screw into the connector on the frame. Could these be the two wires that would go to the local/remote switch???

I also ordered a pair of AC ammeters and should be getting them by next week. These will enable me to connect all the wires before attempting to flash the welder. Advice I got from others suggest that if any of the wires going to the gauges are removed or if they are connected to a defective gauge, the welder cannot produce current.

A pair of welding repair techs told me that they are just informational and should not affect the welder producing current. Just to play it safe I am replacing them and connecting all the leads back. One of the gauges is visibly shorted out, so this should eliminate this problem.

I tried writing Steve Crumb to see if I could get a copy of his manual or advice on his G-3010, but have not received a reply. I hope he is all right.

I advertised on our local craigslist for a welder repairman or welder with experience with these machines to see if I can get a hand. A few have responded but we have yet to hook up. I will be able to do more once it is painted and mounted on the trailer and everything is bolted back into place as right now it is still in somewhat of a disorderly state.

Well that's it for now, if anyone has any ideas or answers to these questions, I would appreciate the help.

Thanks,


Tony

[bhoward]

Usually the remote switch takes the fine adjust pot out of the circuit, so without it you won't get weld output. I don't have a print for that welder, but other old Hobarts are done that way.

[therrera]

Thanks for the reply,

I have tried hard wiring the cut wires going to the local /remote switch in different combinations with no luck. However, I am working with only four wires and I think I need to be using six wires. One set goes to the remote plug and the other goes to the rheostat. I am missing the ones that take the current to them if I am not mistaken.

I discovered some time back while replacing damaged brushes that two of the brushes on the stator rings are missing wires going to or coming from them. Could these be the missing set that go to the local/remote switch?

The paint work has been delayed due to a back log at my friend's body shop. The welder and compressor have been painted but not the trailer they are being mounted on. That should be done by this coming week. Then I will assemble everything and be able to bring the machine home to continue working on it in the comfort of my back yard. I got the gauges but have not been able to install them yet.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Tony

[Bobcatter]

I did a search and came up with this thread. It's like reading a mystery novel, and the last chapter is missing! Any updates? I'm tracking down an old hobart myself and am interested.

Please let there be updates!

[therrera]

Hi all,

The thread stopped because I was at a standstill due to a lack of a wiring diagram. It was tentatively identified as a G3010. However another user identified it as a G310 and made available a wiring diagram. In the meantime without it, I could not figure out what wire goes where.

Also I located the correct type of switch I needed which is a double pole double throw, on-off-on switch like the type used to reverse the direction of a motor.

I will be getting back to this project in the following weeks as I was diverted getting a miller mig machine that I need for my work in running condition.

While I continued to search for the information on this hobart I continued the work on the trailer and air compressor that it will be paired with. I had to build out the trailer for field fabrication and get the generator running. Ironically I was held up due to a cracked plastic gas tank which believe it or not costs $140 after taxes!

I was able to get a plastic welder to patch it and it is up and running. I should get the switch by the end of the week and I will be able to post progress after that point.

Pictures can be seen at:

http://www.compusos.com/havewelder/unknown-hobart

Thanks to the wiring diagram I was able to figure out the type of switch and where the extra pair of wires needed for the remote switch are coming from. The come directly from the welding slip rings via a set of rectifiers. I just have not gotten into that until I get the new switch.

I could have simply hard wired the remote / local wires now that I have the wiring diagram but a second part of this project is wiring in a remote amperage control. I got a hold of a Miller remote control unit and have started another thread asking if anyone has the pin out for the remote unit.

Being that it is just a rheostat, the wiring couldn't be that complicated.

Well, thats the most up to date. I will post more as soon as I get the switch and make some time. It will be within a week or two at the most.

Thanks everyone for your help and input. The journey is almost over (I hope!).

Tony

[ShieldArc]

So what happened?

[martoli]

I went to Tony's to check out his welder. Nice Unit for sure. 350A/C 300D/C it's alot like an older Miller Trailblazer 2J with the Jeep Kaiser Engine..Almost Exactly. I own Two Hobart GF-250's one older and one newer and the older ones had the scr board which took the 115vac power from the field windings and run them to the output stator windings through the output brushes to the leads. Of course these field brushes needed to be flashed before any arc would occur. In the Case of the Tony's Hobart I could'nt find any boards in his unit and could only conclude that perhaps the battery or alternator provides some form of flashing to the primary windings. Although there are a few capacitors behind the front panel which I don't know what they are there for. The schematic is a requirement to understand the operation of the unit..

[therrera]

Hi,

The welder and trailer are exactly where they were a couple of years ago when I took the last pictures of them after getting the setup painted. I got a hold of the wiring diagram for it and got side tracked with work and other projects that came to the forefront, pushing this one back.

I did a job for a client who has contact with a guy who serviced these machines and will put me in contact with him. I expect before summer is out I will pull the trailer out of its parked spot and into my driveway to work on it again. Part of the problem is that I need my driveway for work as I have a welding service and do jobs at home. I figure I will be working on the machine for about a week getting all the things it needs done.

I have an old miller high frequency unit that I bought to pair with this welder to use for AC tig welding. I hope to get to it real soon.

I'll post any new developments.

Thanks,

Tony

[shanghyd]

Don't feel bad. I have one sitting too. I bought a new engine for it but haven't put it in yet.
I picked up a Hobart GF-250 with a 6 cyl ford that is a work in progress too.

[therrera]

Hi all,

I finally got in touch with the welder repair guy. He's an older retired fellow that used to service these older gas drives. He came and towed it to his house where he works out of. The engine runs great and the governor does its job too. I put all the AC plugs and gauges back in their place as the last I touched this machine it had been prepped for painting and all the gauges and stuff on the front panel were taken out so as to not get sprayed.

I put the battery back, charged it up and fired her up after playing with her for a while with some carb cleaner as starting fluid. I put fresh gas in her and when she fired up I could smell the old gas burning out. Very distinctive.

I also tested the armature with the help of a friend to make sure it wasn't shorted. It isn't. Hopefully this means that it is something minor like burned out diodes or resisters somewhere in the circuit.

I expect to have it back by week's end. Hopefully it won't cost me an arm and a leg but I can handle several hundred dollars without eating into living expenses. If he can get it going I may be looking to sell it and finally getting a decent pickup truck. My old work truck was an old 1971 Toyota Landcruiser that was stolen from in front of my house. It had a full size rack that served to haul the iron I used for work.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Thanks,

Tony

[therrera]

Hi all,

With the help of an older repairman of these old Hobarts the machine is finally able to produce AC at the plugs. He reported to me this morning that it excites and produces AC current for about 30 seconds and then cuts out. He is not sure why its doing this and I thought I would post it on the forum here to see if anyone else may have a clue where to focus the troubleshooting.

It has new brushes and all the wiring is in place with the exception of a remote switch which is mission

Thanks,

Tony