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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    houston pa
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    new snap-on muscle migs

    hi. all i ever hear about snap on muscle migs is bad things by non owners. the people that do own them seem to like them. non owners say that they are over priced but i am not clearly able to see it from that perspective. the list price is probably from 500 to 1000 dollars more than one would get one for and i just dont see any other maker offering better cheaper equipment. the one potential pitfall i do see is with the click style power setting. im not a welder by any means but i would think one would want finer tuning? please people show me welders that have better features and performance for the price. granted the consumeables are going to cost you more as ive already checked into this but someone hit me with hard facts. why is snapon junk and mi.ho.li. the way to go?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    S.E. Wisconsin
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    SnapOn is not the company it once was.

    I have known many folks that had careers there and have
    been thrown out of the balloon in this decade.

    Inovation is no longer driven by folks wanting to be/do
    the very best. Sad story actually They are head-quartered here.

    HH 187 sure has had it's faithfull fan-club on this board.
    And from reading along I suspect with good reason.

    VG
    ViceGrip

  3. #3
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    Apr 2009
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    houston pa
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    inovation is not longer driven by people wanting to do the very best?! has to do with what exactly about welding? is it about the great recession we are in? im sorry i dont feel a bit sorry for the guy who owns the 60000 dollar truck and the 500000 dollar house because he cant pay his bills. ever see that commercial on tv with people complaining about not being able to afford health care while they are talking in front of their 5000 dollar fridge in there million dollar house? i dont feel bad for the guy who made a million last year and is delivering pizza now. i really dont. i made a mistake i see when i asked for facts. i should have asked for stuff that has nothing to do with anything and then i would not have been let down. i do feel bad for the american pig though. youd think all these hard times would lead to some weight loss.

  4. #4
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    hh 187 isnt even in the same class as the mm140sl 110 volt welder let alone a 220 snapon model. it weighs 125 pounds less than this 110 volt model. it does cost about 1500 dollars less but isnt it comparibly a much lesser machine that that price suggests? like toyota and chevy. most people buy chevy because of the price not because its a better vehicle.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Austin TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecwik View Post
    hh 187 isnt even in the same class as the mm140sl 110 volt welder
    LMAO.

    im not a welder by any means
    I think we have determined the root of the problem.
    Trailblazer 302 * Millermatic 212 * Syncrowave 180SD * X-Treme 12VS Feeder * Spoolmate 3035
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 Plasma * Lincoln 175 MIG

    Victor Superrange II * Victor Journeyman

    Hobart HH 125EZ



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wichita, KS, USA
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    4,113
    First, I don't know who you are or anything about you, aside from you are not a weldor. But to come onto any forum and ask a question like this and then jump on the first guy who simply points out that Snap On quality is not what it used to be (indicating that the quality of machine you get from Snap On may not be what you would get from a company who MAKES welders and that they are now driven primarily by the almighty dollar, not innovation, at least that's what I got out of Phil's post) is kinda troll-like.

    However, to put in my 2Ę...

    1) One thing that jumps out at me is that the MM140SL states an input current of 20 or 30 amps. Not everybody has a 110V 30A circuit in their shop. And if you don't have it already, you might as well run a 220V circuit.

    2) If you run 220V you can get a MM212 that is spec'd to do 130A @ @100% and 140A @ 80% duty cycle and is likely to do much more than that in reality. Plus, the machine is capable of 210A if needed.

    3) The Snap On lists for almost $3000. The MM212 lists for less than $2000 and like the Snap On, you can get them for less than list.

    4) If you are concerned about the weight of the machine, the IM250 weighs the same 195#, and also lists for about $2000, plus it will do 165A at 100% duty cycle.

    5) If you buy a Snap On welder, you probably have to go back to Snap On to get parts? Which means Snap On has to go to the manufacturer and get the parts. And where do you go to buy Snap On parts? If you ever need parts for a Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Esab, etc, you go to the LWS and get the parts. Also, many are also Authorized Service Centers for the welders, so it can be serviced locally, too. BTW, who makes the Muscle Migs?

    6) Support! How much support can you get for a Snap On welder? Does the truck driver know the ins and outs of the machine? Can he tell you how it works? Probably not. If you go to the LWS and buy a "brand name" welder can you go to the LWS and get support? Maybe not, but the chances are a helluva lot better!

    Okay, there's 6 reasons not to buy the MM140SL over a Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, Esab, etc.

    What do you have?

    Dave
    Last edited by whateg0; 04-15-2009 at 10:36 PM.
    Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
    http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
    http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27017

    Red (not lincoln) inverter TIG/Stick
    MM180
    SP125+

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Wichita, KS, USA
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    7) Oh, yeah. How does the MM140SL weld? I don't know either, but the reviews seem to indicate that the Hobarts are nice running machines nowadays.

    edit: 8) Regarding the switches vs. variable voltage, many top welders use voltage taps instead of a pot to control the voltage. Better? Depends on who you ask. Search for it. There've been quite a few discussions on the topic.

    How 'bout you go and spend the $3000 or whatever it costs and then tell us how it is better than the rest. Ya know what? For that money, I can go buy the IM250, a new Miller hood, a big bottle or two of gas, some wire, a spare regulator and a nice dinner.

    Dave
    Last edited by whateg0; 04-15-2009 at 11:01 PM.
    Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
    http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
    http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27017

    Red (not lincoln) inverter TIG/Stick
    MM180
    SP125+

  8. #8
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    Mar 2003
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    Brethren, Mi
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    I am not bashing anyone but as for welding machines a lot of Snappys gather a lot of dust.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2003
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    There was a day when the hi dollar tool guy had his deal but today good stuff is so competitively priced that while snappy is good there is no reason to flush money down the tool truck. Even Walmart has good tools. Everyone worries about warranty and resale, ha, you could throw away 5 sets of Kobalts and still come out money ahead. Dealer mechanics kill me, work on all new sheet and swear up and down that they would go broke tomorrow if they had to stoop to an SK.
    It kills me to hear, I wouldn't use it at work but at home its ok. 9000$ or more for a tool box, crap, a 1000$ one from Lowe's and I would go home and kick my feet up on the couch for 3 months.
    In comparison its what makes welding machines such a good deal as well as other tool sources. A good one just plain works better than a piece of junk and only costs twice as much. Most common hand tools are in a different class, take the boxes for example. Even if they use twice the material and double the production cost it it worth 10 times the price? Same with some tools, 5 times and as much as 10X a Kobalt? Granted here and there some things are better but now I find a 3/4 impact socket at 4$ from my jobber does the same work as a 30$ one from the truck, they even warranty one, deliver it, one I just pound the snot right out of for years, at 4 $ I will stock an extra. Air tools is another one, 100 bucks for a CP ratchet from the auto parts, 1/2 gun 2 or 300, a lot of times guy doesn't need full sets that gather a lot of dust.
    A dealer mechanic pretty much uses one set, his own, polishes and worries about it daily, here stuff gets beat in comparison and we cant have any less reliability. I provide everything, 3 or 4 of us using the stuff, well tested.
    When we test the 210 took about 2 inches of weld, one adjustment and off to the races with a machine cost about a grand vs 3000 for one off a truck that who knows where or what re-badged deal it is. A unit from a welding machine company is a great value, very competitive with low dealer margins. The customer gets a bargain.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by mikecwik View Post
    hi. all i ever hear about snap on muscle migs is bad things by non owners. the people that do own them seem to like them. non owners say that they are over priced but i am not clearly able to see it from that perspective. the list price is probably from 500 to 1000 dollars more than one would get one for and i just dont see any other maker offering better cheaper equipment. the one potential pitfall i do see is with the click style power setting. im not a welder by any means but i would think one would want finer tuning? please people show me welders that have better features and performance for the price. granted the consumeables are going to cost you more as ive already checked into this but someone hit me with hard facts. why is snapon junk and mi.ho.li. the way to go?
    If you feel that strongly about the quality and value of the snap on welder, I'd buy it. After all, it is your money. It sounds like you already have your mind made up about buying a snap on welder and know your stuff.
    Millermatic Passport Plus
    Millermatic 200

    Millermatic 350P with Python
    XMT 304 /w S-64 feeder and 12RC
    Dynasty 300 DX
    Victor O/A
    Premier Power Welder for my trail junk.

  11. #11
    Roger Guest
    When learning to weld with infinite variable voltage MIG welder you must make voltage adjustments large enough that you can easily see results of your change. Only change Volts or wire speed when fine tuning your settings so you know how each setting change affected the weld. This speeds learning and reduces confusion about what is happening. This sounds like switched voltage taps which is good enough most times. Latter when making big corrective adjustments you can adjust both wire speed and volts.

    Wire speed most directly changes amps and heat to weld not volts. But Volts must be close to correct to support the wire speed. Too Low Volts and the wire will hit bottom of puddle causing MIG gun rebound. Too high can cause more spatter.
    Last edited by Roger; 04-16-2009 at 10:43 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    houston pa
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    I actually did buy a mm140sl 2200 bucks and id take it over our 220v jag (I think) at work any day. I was looking at going into 220 but like people say here one could save lot of money and just preheat the thicker materials. Snap on quality of their welders has improved greatly most people didnít care for the older ones for sure, itís the newer ones that I cant find anything out about. I have no complaints on this machine so far. One might be its startup is quite spattery but my metals arenít the cleanest eitherÖ
    Im not a welder by trade and im sure most people who have opinions on nascar and pro football never did either one of those things either.
    Good point about the 30 amp line. I only have 1 thirty but donít notice any difference when im not on it anyway. Its an easy fix for someone that only has 20 though.
    Probably the best point made here would be the support as snapon can suck on that at times although I do have a tech stopping by my house to check out my out of warranty tire machine for free so its not all bad.
    Ill have to go back and check on the main brands costs again but I didnít see cheaper machines than snapons 220 looking at stats.
    Thanks for the the reply.
    I didnít actually look at Hobart but what im seeing is people complaining about them when I started to well 2 out of three complaints anyway.
    3. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    traded up to the 210 ironman after one week from the 187 handler it is to small for any anount of welding

    2. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    Worked with it for 2 years. Works good with body panel replacement on old car restoration. Some feed difficulty with aluminum boat welding...but just straighten the line.

    1. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    I've had a 135 for several years in an exhaust shop and have spent about the same amount of time working on it as with it!. I've had to replace several parts on it including a circuit board for the wire feed that Hobart sent free of charge saying that it had been a recurring problem on this model. I would not recommend this unit to a beginner or anyone else for that matter

  13. #13
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    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecwik View Post
    I actually did buy a mm140sl 2200 bucks and id take it over our 220v jag (I think) at work any day. I was looking at going into 220 but like people say here one could save lot of money and just preheat the thicker materials. Snap on quality of their welders has improved greatly most people didnít care for the older ones for sure, itís the newer ones that I cant find anything out about. I have no complaints on this machine so far. One might be its startup is quite spattery but my metals arenít the cleanest eitherÖ
    Im not a welder by trade and im sure most people who have opinions on nascar and pro football never did either one of those things either.
    Good point about the 30 amp line. I only have 1 thirty but donít notice any difference when im not on it anyway. Its an easy fix for someone that only has 20 though.
    Probably the best point made here would be the support as snapon can suck on that at times although I do have a tech stopping by my house to check out my out of warranty tire machine for free so its not all bad.
    Ill have to go back and check on the main brands costs again but I didnít see cheaper machines than snapons 220 looking at stats.
    Thanks for the the reply.
    I didnít actually look at Hobart but what im seeing is people complaining about them when I started to well 2 out of three complaints anyway.
    3. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    traded up to the 210 ironman after one week from the 187 handler it is to small for any anount of welding

    2. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    Worked with it for 2 years. Works good with body panel replacement on old car restoration. Some feed difficulty with aluminum boat welding...but just straighten the line.

    1. RE: Hobart Handler 135 And IronMan 210 Welders
    I've had a 135 for several years in an exhaust shop and have spent about the same amount of time working on it as with it!. I've had to replace several parts on it including a circuit board for the wire feed that Hobart sent free of charge saying that it had been a recurring problem on this model. I would not recommend this unit to a beginner or anyone else for that matter
    I would have looked for complaints from Miller, Esab, and Lincoln welders too.
    I'm sure you could find problems with any particular model if you searched hard enough.

    For $2200 spent, I would have bought a brand new Millermatic 252. It is 50X the welder the mm140sl welder is.

    Other option would have been to buy a small mig welder and a dedicated tig/stick welder for $2200.

    Ultimately, it is your money and as long as you're happy it is okay.
    Millermatic Passport Plus
    Millermatic 200

    Millermatic 350P with Python
    XMT 304 /w S-64 feeder and 12RC
    Dynasty 300 DX
    Victor O/A
    Premier Power Welder for my trail junk.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Specs for Snap On MM140SL


    Description:
    140 amp output @ 100% duty cycle, 120VAC, 50 Hz/60 Hz. Use for continuous, spot, or stitch welding using .023" through .035" wire. Welds up to 1/4" in a single pass. For use in auto body collision repair, automotive repair shops, maintenance and manufacturing applications and custom fabrication shops where voltage input is limited to 120V. Highest duty cycle 120V MIG welder available. Includes cylinder rack, MIG torch with 10' cable, 15' feeder cable and 20' power input cable. Offers spot and stitch weld capabilities. Two-year warranty (except MIG torch).
    Additional Description:
    Snap-on Muscle MIG welders weld continuous, spot or stitch all ferrous (steel, stainless steel) metals. Detachable feeder provides increased maneuverability and extended reach. Thin ferrous metals as well as copper can be welded with the optional TIG accessory kit. Each model is spool gun ready for welding aluminum with optional accessory. Each welder includes a flowmeter-regulator and parts kit. See SS2943 brochure for additonal information.
    Additional Features:
    Compare our welders. Common welders have 30% Duty Cycles, which means you can only weld three minutes out of ten at full load amperage setting. Snap-on welders feature 100% Duty Cycle Ė weld ten minutes out of ten at full load amperage setting. There Is A Differenceô.

    Product Specifications
    Stock # MM140SL
    Name Welder, "Muscle Mig" Wire Feed
    Price** $2,943.07
    Brand Snap-on
    Input Voltage 120V
    Input Current 20/30A
    Output Current 30-140A
    Duty Cycle 100% @ 140 Amps
    Optional Aluminum Spool Gun MHG5B
    Optional TIG Kit FLEXTIG12, 25
    Maximum Thickness, inches 1/4"
    Wire Size Range .023"-.035"
    Shipping Weight, lbs. 198
    Millermatic Passport Plus
    Millermatic 200

    Millermatic 350P with Python
    XMT 304 /w S-64 feeder and 12RC
    Dynasty 300 DX
    Victor O/A
    Premier Power Welder for my trail junk.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2003
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
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    You will be able to see the complaints about some of these machines as there is a very public forum to aire them and,,, there are a LOT of them.

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