Way OT - Buy American or...

[whateg0]

allow the mismanagement of companies such as the automakers to suffer the
fate that perhaps should be afforded them?

I'm not promoting either side here. Just starting a "little" discussion.

I know the buy American thing has been beat to death. And then there's the flaw in that campaign where American branded products (cars) are actually built across the border. And now the bailout thing...

Anyway, in this capitalistic society, why shouldn't a company whose mismanagement has allowed it to fall prey to more efficient overseas competitors? Of course, there are Americans who rely on the existence of that company for the food on their table and the roof over their heads. So, then should the bailout be allowed to happen to 'help' those workers? Will this bailout really buy the automakers enough time to become solvent again? Or will this be like the bank bailout where the money goes into a pool and then gets used for whatever the users think it will best be used for?

Again, I'm not trying to pick sides here, but I'm curious about how everybody here feels about this stuff.

Dave

[fjk]

I'll bite (i'll probably be sorry....

Earlier today I just emailed this to the New York Times
letters-to-the-editor

Re "Pursuing U.S. Aid, G.M. Accepts Need for Drastic Cuts", G.M., and
presumably the other American car manufacturers claim that their
current round of troubles are due to "the continued deterioration of
the United States vehicle market, because of the weakening economy
and tight credit, which has made it difficult for consumers who do
wander into dealerships to get loans."

If Washington insists on bailing out the Big Three, then why not take
them at their word? Instead of sending money to GM, use it to
make auto loans easily available. Consumers can then vote with their
wallets, making it obvious whether GM, Ford, and Chrysler make cars
that people want, or not. And the big three will then sink or swim on
their own merits.

That said (and now I'm sure I'll really be sorry), it seems to
me that even if some/all of the Big Three failed and went completely
out of business, we still have a market in the US for something like
10-12 million cars&trucks a year. If GM went "poof", the demand would
still be there, so the remaining companies would have to increase
production, perhaps buy some plants or brands from GM's corporate-
corpse, and so on. True, the foreign makers would increase exports
into the US -- but they'd also increase production here (they already
make a lot of cars and engines and parts here...).

The changes would hurt but it would not be the end of Civilization
As We Know It. (perhaps _that_ is where the bailout bucks would
best be spent -- unemployment, retraining, helping Toyota buy/
rehab some of the closed plants, etc)

But what do I know...

[boilerman79]

Whew ,This thread could be trouble,I was at the mall a few weeks ago,they had a Saturn car in there that you could fill out a card and maybe win it.I started looking at the sticker,Motor -made in some strange 2nd rate euro country,Transmission made in France.But I think the car was put together in Tenn.or some other southern state.
Our Gov. gave Billions of dollars to AIG, and Several big name banks with no strings attached.I would not be afraid to loan the car makers a fraction of that if they really mean what they say about changing the way they do business.
There is no easy answer to this problem,If it was just the big boys that were going to suffer ,I would say let them starve,but it affects a lot of reg.joes out there.
With the price of OIL what it is ,I wouldnt be suprised to see EXON or CHEVRON asking for a bailout,now that would be sick.

[Wyoming]

It also helps if you remember that most foreign automobile companies are in bed with their own government's subsidies on a scale that makes this bail-out seem like chump change. They also need not pay for their employees health care like U.S. auto makers as every other industrialized country has universal health care. Matter of fact, the foreign automobile companies with plants here in the U.S. are also extremely well subsidized by the numerous state, county and municipal governments where they are located with give-backs, location incentives and tax write-offs. If it was a level playing field, I doubt the Big Three would be in the fix they are in right now...of course they have the high corporate salaries and bonuses that are the blight on every U.S. manufacturer.

[Hotfoot]

Just give every household anew car with that money. Stimulates production, employment,the local dealers, etc...plus, we all get a new car....or , just buy me new TIG, and I'll go away happy.

[Wyoming]

Foot, I like the way you think!!!

[keenavv]

I'll bite (i'll probably be sorry....

Earlier today I just emailed this to the New York Times
letters-to-the-editor

Re "Pursuing U.S. Aid, G.M. Accepts Need for Drastic Cuts", G.M., and
presumably the other American car manufacturers claim that their
current round of troubles are due to "the continued deterioration of
the United States vehicle market, because of the weakening economy
and tight credit, which has made it difficult for consumers who do
wander into dealerships to get loans."

If Washington insists on bailing out the Big Three, then why not take
them at their word? Instead of sending money to GM, use it to
make auto loans easily available. Consumers can then vote with their
wallets, making it obvious whether GM, Ford, and Chrysler make cars
that people want, or not. And the big three will then sink or swim on
their own merits.

That said (and now I'm sure I'll really be sorry), it seems to
me that even if some/all of the Big Three failed and went completely
out of business, we still have a market in the US for something like
10-12 million cars&trucks a year. If GM went "poof", the demand would
still be there, so the remaining companies would have to increase
production, perhaps buy some plants or brands from GM's corporate-
corpse, and so on. True, the foreign makers would increase exports
into the US -- but they'd also increase production here (they already
make a lot of cars and engines and parts here...).

The changes would hurt but it would not be the end of Civilization
As We Know It. (perhaps _that_ is where the bailout bucks would
best be spent -- unemployment, retraining, helping Toyota buy/
rehab some of the closed plants, etc)

But what do I know...

You are right on target. We should NOT reward bad management !!!

[tsbrewers]

personally I will never buy another foreign vehicle, unless that is my ONLY choice. It has nothing to do with what is going on with the economy, and has everything to do with my past experiences with the foreign cars I have owned. and no I am not talking yugo or anything.

Brew

[Chuck U&R]

Here's an interesting link -

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

If an American company doesn't hire Americans why should we buy American ?

[JoeS]

I think some of the guys here need to think a bit further than where something is made.

this issue upon us is NOT where something is made, but where all the profits for these companies will ultimately end up.

do I think executive pay is outrageous? Abso-friggin-lutely.....do I think they've done a bad job? hello? this is america in the 21st centruy, it's all screw your neighbor, of course they did a terrible job while lining their own pockets. that said, in spite of those 'executives', the grunts in the companies are turning out autos that are on par with anything else out there. they have for quite some time, I can't fathom how anyone could say anything other than that. a few lemons here and there, but I've been in tons of foreign cars, and honestly, I don't see the draw. boring tin cans, with sometimes a nice gadget here or there. the biggest problem these domestic have had is terrible terrible customer service. had these companies accepted problems and taken the onus to repair issues as they became apparent, the whole 'domestic cars are junk' mentality would not exist. this easily started in the 70's and carries through to today. foreign cars have had just as many problems and recalls, the difference was that the dealerships for the most part fixed the issues without causing heartache to the customer.

Buying something built by a foreign company sends money, your hard earned money, to some giant corporation overseas, and then quickly, to the govermnet of said foreign company. Will we ever see that money back in this country? not likely.

I have no problem with free trade, the problem as it exists is that we don't HAVE fair trade.

the domestics have gotten themselves in some sticky situations with labor agreements, and unfortunately, this is catching up with them. so they are fighting the fight with both hads tied behind their backs. first, they are paying money moreso than they should have due to these agreements. secondly, they compete with companies that are goverment subsidized, whether they admit it or not. so it's a double whammy.

not only are we talking about the three domestics, but many many people indirectly related. it's not a good situation to let them fail. this 'bailout' is simply a low interest loan, not a handout like the 700billion given to the banking theives.

unfortunately, I don't know how effective it will be. the screw your neighbor mentality and foreign car 'superiority' brainwash has been most effective in this country for quite some time. I don't think they can undo it.

oh well..off the soapbox.....my apologies for the rant....

[Grumpy]

personally I will never buy another foreign vehicle, unless that is my ONLY choice. It has nothing to do with what is going on with the economy, and has everything to do with my past experiences with the foreign cars I have owned. and no I am not talking yugo or anything.

Brew

Understandable but look at all the junk our American car makers make/made.