Dan it...

[Brand X]

looks like Thermal did some work on the 181 model. It's four tap setup has been changed to 6 taps. I liked certain things about the 181 but the voltage spread was way too wide with four taps. The 140 has five taps and that is better the 131 model

http://cgi.ebay.com/Thermal-Arc-Fabr...QQcmdZViewItem

[Dan]

Are you trying to get me in trouble with the wife again? After 2 years, I finally got the verbal lashing the other day that I was anticipating long ago, for selling off the 251, and replacing it with the ESAB. Actually, my HH 187 is quite safe, I have no intention of selling it.

Yeah, you sent me the V/A curves on the 181, and it definitely suffered from the same issue that the HH 180 did, meaning to few taps for the out put range. Plus based on the other info you provided it seems like the 181 had inductance issues on the top end too just like the HH 180.

6 taps should help reduce the chance of a major hole in the output. Still though TA must have not been paying good attention, because my HH 187 is going to do a better job with its 7 voltage taps. Darrell did a great job on his redesign of the choke when Hobart went from the 180 to the 187, that has given the 187 very good arc characteristics and weld puddle wetout throughout the units entire output range. I find it interesting that TA uses the same "Enhanced Magnetics" wording that Hobart has been using since the release of the 187. For now I'll assume this possibly means they may have fixed their inductance issue too. definitely seems like TA is trying to catch up with Hobart in this amperage class.

[Brand X]

I am more interested in the 140 model because I have the HH-210 and how could you get much better then that machine??? The 131 was a pretty good machine but hot on the low-end. Pretty stupid in a 120 volt unit. The Lincoln 140c seems like the unit to beat. It does it all right and the others have a ways to go. I believe the Miller 140 is pretty nice but huge compared to the Lincoln. I likie the passport but I am a bit leery of running it on a smaller generator.

[Dan]

I am more interested in the 140 model because I have the HH-210 and how could you get much better then that machine??? The 131 was a pretty good machine but hot on the low-end. Pretty stupid in a 120 volt unit. The Lincoln 140c seems like the unit to beat. It does it all right and the others have a ways to go. I believe the Miller 140 is pretty nice but huge compared to the Lincoln. I likie the passport but I am a bit leery of running it on a smaller generator.

At this point, I have zero arc time in on a HH 210, so I'm only guessing about how good the unit is based on my 187 experience- knowing both units contain the same choke design. If I could get the MM 210 sold that I spent the last two days pushing out of the way, since we were using Logan's PM 180C on a project he was building, I 'd purchase a HH 210.

I still find it interesting that you like the 140C but not the 180C. We were running an .030 HTP wire on the 180C Monday evening, and after Logan completed his project I ran a half dozen beads on 1/8", and i really liked the results I was achieving with this wire. The arc quality and weld puddle wet out were real good. The spatter level was almost non-existent too. I have noticed though, that the 180C is finicky about the brand of wire ran through it. Our last session a week or two back, with the 180C, we were running a roll of Pinnacle on the unit, which end up being a little touchy to get dialed in real good, and the weld puddle was a little sluggish. Interestly, we ran the same roll on the 187, and the arc was easy to dial in, and the weld puddle wet out was very good.


I'd like to see Hobart drop the current choke design they're using in the 140, and give the 187/210 choke a try. This would more than likely eliminate the incredibly soft stable low end arc that the 140 produces with an .023 and C-25. Which is the only plus I see currently in how the 140 performs with a solid wire. I have a feeling, if the choke the was changed to make the 140 perform similar to the HH187, the HH 140 might end up being a real nice unit at the top end of its solid wire capability, and if it still performs as good as the 187 does on thin ga material it'd be a real good unit. Instead right now,with solid wire, I just look at the 140 as a unit with an excellent low end, and Ok at best through out the rest of the range it can handle.

If I had a need for a 120V unit to run solid wire, based on my experience with a HH 140, and what Ive seen from the PM 180C, i'd definitely put the 140C on the top of my list of units to check out. However, since my 120V needs are covered best by fluxcore, I've fallen in love with the ease of operation factor that the HH 125 EZ provides, especially since the unit turned out to be as good as advertised.

[Brand X]

I like the Hobart 140 with .023/ C-25 because it works very well down low and also runs on a small generator nice. The Lincoln 140c wets out the weld puddle on it's top setting like the Thermal 131. It's always a downfall on the little units.

The 180C is a nice unit but the HH-210 is more forgiving in wire and type. It runs CO2 well too. I really like the compact size of the Lincoln machines and that is a factor for me too.

[cope]

If I could get the MM 210 sold that I spent the last two days pushing out of the way, since we were using Logan's PM 180C on a project he was building, I 'd purchase a HH 210.

Why would you sell your MM210 to buy a HH210?