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  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grappletractor View Post
    If you want that machine for more than just a boat anchor then ship it to me and I'll fix it for free.
    even at that discounted price, 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.'

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Quitman, AR
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    557
    I wouldn't trade my hypertherm 600 any 10 of the china made cutters.

    I can walk into ANY welding store and get consumables, The tech support speaks English and at the very least I have never heard one bad word about them.

    I waited 1 1/2 years to buy a plasma, but I don't regret waiting for the quality. 1/4" plate like butter 1st time, every time and it's not maxed out doin' it.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
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    76
    Quote Originally Posted by RickSidebottom View Post
    I wouldn't trade my hypertherm 600 any 10 of the china made cutters.

    I can walk into ANY welding store and get consumables, The tech support speaks English and at the very least I have never heard one bad word about them.

    I waited 1 1/2 years to buy a plasma, but I don't regret waiting for the quality. 1/4" plate like butter 1st time, every time and it's not maxed out doin' it.
    I am a retired computer engineer and brand new to the welding/plasma cutting hobby. I asked a LOT of folks what they recommended and did not listen to what they didn't. So being a total newby I had no built in thoughts, good, bad or indifferent on anything.

    I had several folks recommend the Parker to me and my FIRST thought on looking at them was they were too CHEAP.

    62 years of living has taught me that like quality products cost about the same, have the same profit margins and will work equally well. But if a company is selling a product for $400 bucks that others are selling for $1200 bucks then they cut some corners somewhere.

    Lucky for me, a good chunk of my 30 years in the computer business was in R&D and trust me I know how to evaluate, compare and analyze very well.

    And to paraphrase Rick: I wouldn't trade my Hypertherm Powermax30 for any 10 of the china made cutters.
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.SavageSun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
    8 Angle Grinders
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
    I am a retired computer engineer and brand new to the welding/plasma cutting hobby. I asked a LOT of folks what they recommended and did not listen to what they didn't. So being a total newby I had no built in thoughts, good, bad or indifferent on anything.

    I had several folks recommend the Parker to me and my FIRST thought on looking at them was they were too CHEAP.

    62 years of living has taught me that like quality products cost about the same, have the same profit margins and will work equally well. But if a company is selling a product for $400 bucks that others are selling for $1200 bucks then they cut some corners somewhere.

    Lucky for me, a good chunk of my 30 years in the computer business was in R&D and trust me I know how to evaluate, compare and analyze very well.
    And to paraphrase Rick: I wouldn't trade my Hypertherm Powermax30 for any 10 of the china made cutters.

    So you did this with both the Parker and Hypertherm sitting in front of you?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by Grappletractor View Post
    So you did this with both the Parker and Hypertherm sitting in front of you?
    No, not at all. There is an abundance of info, technical papers, and data out concerning plasma cutters, performance and specifications.

    As I stated early on, like type items, quality and technology all costs about the same.

    You generally get what you pay for. As for comparing the Parker with a Hypertherm, lets just look at some simple facts.

    Hyper Powermax30 is about $1500 bucks, street price a little less. The Miller and Thermody makes similar units at the same price point.

    The Parker is a $400-$600 or less machine. And you have to remember that they are making a good profit on it just like everyone else is.

    That said the price spread between Parker and the Hyper is too great for there NOT to be some degradation in technology. Simple as that.

    I buy plenty of stuff at Harbor Freight but I don't buy plasma cutters there. Some things are important to me. My welder, plasma cutter and other various tools. We all have our parameters and requirements and Parker etc etc does not meet mine. If it meets someones then that is fine by me. It may be that a plasma cutter is less important to them than it is to me.
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.SavageSun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
    8 Angle Grinders
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,559
    Mr. Tractor,
    using the following quote, which is accurate, answer the question.

    But if a company is selling a product for $400 bucks that others are selling for $1200 bucks then they cut some corners somewhere.
    how can the "import" units sell for 75% off and be of comparable quality?
    heck, even 'adequate' quality?
    don't you think if decent machines could be made at the discounted price of even 30% off, a domestic producer would be pumping them out, if for no other reason than to under-cut the competition and 'steal' a market share?
    face the facts, Mr. Tractor the import units you push serve two purposes,
    (1) they line your pockets and the pockets of those who (1a) love American dollars (1b) don't care how many hardworking people they dupe out of those dollars.
    (2) they sell more American units, when the person who lined said pockets realizes they got the good old 'import' shaft, and buys what they should have gotten in the first place, a quality domestic unit with quality domestic support. not the support of someone on a forum saying he'll turn your boat anchor into a PAC, but REAL support. or are you willing to turn EVERY boat anchor imported plasma cutter into a functioning unit?

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Grappletractor View Post
    So you did this with both the Parker and Hypertherm sitting in front of you?
    You need to just give up on this one. A dealer for discount Chinese machines is never going to discredit someone for choosing to use their own hard earned dollars to buy a more expensive, quality, American made product instead of the junk you sell.
    Trailblazer 302 * Millermatic 212 * Syncrowave 180SD * X-Treme 12VS Feeder * Spoolmate 3035
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 Plasma * Lincoln 175 MIG

    Victor Superrange II * Victor Journeyman

    Hobart HH 125EZ



  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Quitman, AR
    Posts
    557
    I will tell you how I chose my 600.

    I spend a great deal of time on the road working on IT equipment and Point-of-sale equipment. When ever I get a chance, I take my lunch visiting fab shops and welding dealers. The 2 top cutters were HyperTherm and Thermal Dynamics. When I ask a fab shop owner why they chose a particular unit, price was never the first answer. Reliability and quality were the first 2.

    One miller dealer (independent) recommended HyperTherm over Miller.

    If I hadn't been able to such a good deal on mine I prob would have gone with the Hobart 625. I'm not using it in a full time production environment, but it's nice to know I can, and not have any worries if it can take a full day of work.

    I have 2 hobart welders,(HH140 and StickMate AC/DC) and I have no doubt that they will do what I need when I need it. I will upgrade the mig at some point, most likely a ironman 210 or a miller 212.

    I'm done now. flame away.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by RickSidebottom View Post
    I will tell you how I chose my 600.
    Rick, pardon me, but I am fairly new to the game, but what is a "600"?

    That said, reguardless of what it is, its your money and your choice. As I said I am retired and my life long hobby of off roading with my Jeep is what I like to do. I have taken up tools to work on my Jeep and along with those is a welder and a plasma cutter.

    Certainly I could have saved a LOT of $$$ by getting a Parker or Harbor Fright specials. But I want to spend MY TIME working on my Jeep and not mucking around with substandard or broken tools that are critical to accomplishing the mission of working on my Jeep and other peoples rigs.

    That is my mind set, that is important to me...I learned from my Daddy, "cheap don't come good and good don't come cheap" and I can assure you that has paid dividends all of my life. So the next time any one of you do an electronic ticket to fly an airline. I want you to think that United Airlines, the first airline to implement electronic ticketing; and ask you self a question: Did United Airlines let the contract to develop this to some outfit in China or was it AT&T Global consulting who hired some guy to head it up that would not accept anything less than perfection and still brought it in on time and on budget. Thats right the ole SavageSun guy did it...Thanks Dad

    Form must always follow function and were I to be driving in a demolition derby tomorrow I would take a Yougo and not my Jeep....
    Last edited by SavageSunJeep; 02-01-2008 at 09:31 PM.
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.SavageSun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
    8 Angle Grinders
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Quitman, AR
    Posts
    557
    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
    Rick, pardon me, but I am fairly new to the game, but what is a "600"?
    HyperTherm Powermax 600 http://www.hypertherm.com/languages/...owermax600.php

    I should have reference my earlier post, sorry.
    You always save money buying it once.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by RickSidebottom View Post
    HyperTherm Powermax 600 http://www.hypertherm.com/languages/...owermax600.php

    I should have reference my earlier post, sorry.
    You always save money buying it once.
    Ok, I looked at that yesterday over at the Welding supply, WOW , talkin about KICK BUTT plasma cutting You can bet if my needs called for that, I would have for sure.
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.SavageSun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
    8 Angle Grinders
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Zrexxer View Post
    You need to just give up on this one. A dealer for discount Chinese machines is never going to discredit someone for choosing to use their own hard earned dollars to buy a more expensive, quality, American made product instead of the junk you sell.

    You are assuming too much! I only asked a simple question wasn't trying to discredit anyone

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkinhead View Post
    Mr. Tractor,
    using the following quote, which is accurate, answer the question.



    how can the "import" units sell for 75% off and be of comparable quality?
    heck, even 'adequate' quality?
    don't you think if decent machines could be made at the discounted price of even 30% off, a domestic producer would be pumping them out, if for no other reason than to under-cut the competition and 'steal' a market share?
    face the facts, Mr. Tractor the import units you push serve two purposes,
    (1) they line your pockets and the pockets of those who (1a) love American dollars (1b) don't care how many hardworking people they dupe out of those dollars.
    (2) they sell more American units, when the person who lined said pockets realizes they got the good old 'import' shaft, and buys what they should have gotten in the first place, a quality domestic unit with quality domestic support. not the support of someone on a forum saying he'll turn your boat anchor into a PAC, but REAL support. or are you willing to turn EVERY boat anchor imported plasma cutter into a functioning unit?
    Ha! Another one assuming too much! I never said the quality was comparable---it's not! But for the hobbyist these serve their function well! Check out my Youtube videos, can you disagree that these provide a good alternative to the top end machines for the hobbyist?, someone who if it weren't for these imports couldn't either justify or perhaps afford one of the top end machines?

    And YES, I will continue to help those I choose to help who have been screwed over by unscrupulous sellers!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by Grappletractor View Post
    Ha! Another one assuming too much! I never said the quality was comparable---it's not! But for the hobbyist these serve their function well! Check out my Youtube videos, can you disagree that these provide a good alternative to the top end machines for the hobbyist?, someone who if it weren't for these imports couldn't either justify or perhaps afford one of the top end machines?
    Perhaps its is only me: I am a hobbyist by most definitions and do not sell my services. I do accept donations to offset consumables. But as a hobbyist my view is that I buy key tools that are the best I can buy. The rest I just get down at Sears or Harbor Fright.

    In my minds eye I cannot afford $ to replace welders and plasma cutters, chop saws etc. And I do not see any savings in buying down market on a plasma cutter or welder. I want them to work first time every time and I want ease of maint and parts availability.

    I have 4, 4 1/2 in angle grinders: 1 DeWalt at about $70 or so and 3 Harbor Fright at $10 each. They HFs can break often at $10 each and be replaced with little wallet pain.

    Then my hobby, off road and Jeeping. When I am cutting off spring buckets and reversing them and then welding them back on they have to STAY, the welds cannot fail and the plasma cutter need to cut where I direct it, when I direct it. Too much at stake here for less than the best.

    yes I looked at your video's
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.SavageSun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
    8 Angle Grinders
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
    Perhaps its is only me: I am a hobbyist by most definitions and do not sell my services. I do accept donations to offset consumables. But as a hobbyist my view is that I buy key tools that are the best I can buy. The rest I just get down at Sears or Harbor Fright.

    In my minds eye I cannot afford $ to replace welders and plasma cutters, chop saws etc. And I do not see any savings in buying down market on a plasma cutter or welder. I want them to work first time every time and I want ease of maint and parts availability.

    I have 4, 4 1/2 in angle grinders: 1 DeWalt at about $70 or so and 3 Harbor Fright at $10 each. They HFs can break often at $10 each and be replaced with little wallet pain.

    Then my hobby, off road and Jeeping. When I am cutting off spring buckets and reversing them and then welding them back on they have to STAY, the welds cannot fail and the plasma cutter need to cut where I direct it, when I direct it. Too much at stake here for less than the best.

    yes I looked at your video's
    Good for you and I respect your chioces.
    Where is that Dewalt made? I really don't know so please don't flame me for asking

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