Good welder/BAD welder...

[mrcaptainbob]

Okay, this is the same issue as Dacro's, except using the HH 135. Today I did about 36" worth and it sizzled like frying bacon! I was happy! Later in the project I couldn't get 1/4" to go right! What the heck? spitting and sputtering. Same metal. All freshly cleaned. Good ground. Same welder (me and machine.) and it goes to pot. Took everything apart at this point. It was either that or pitching it down hill to the creek. The drive wheel groove was a bit filled up with the flux and I cleaned that out. Checked the wire to it and the wire does not fit, which I feel is correct. I suspect the wire wants to ride on the groove edges rather than tucked into the groove. Stripped out the cable, too. Layed it on the floor and lays straight. Rolled it back and forth and it shows no kinks. Did the compressed air thing and no air wants to come out. Shoved solid wire through and some flux (naturally) came out. Kept rodding away at it and aired it out some more. The wire slides through quite nicely. Reassembled it all and checked every step to make sure there was no binding. All was well. Even lightly lubed the plastic spool stem to prevent sticking. The spool tension nut is just barely on. In fact, at one point I ran it without the tension spring. Holding it to the air the wire comes out nice and free. When sitcking it to the metal it starts the darn popping sputtering again. Two Excedrins later I'm typing to you before we hear the splashing sounds in the creek...
Any suggestions? Give up welding? Hire it out?

[Rocky D]

How are you getting flux on the wire?? The wire is supposed to be dry, going through the machine. Am I missing sumptin here?

[Dascro]

Not that it will change anything, but I know how you feel!

Earlier this evening I posted on the thread I started last evening about what I did to resolve my problem. I don't know if it will help you as I am using solid wire and it seems you are using flux wire.

I believe my biggest problem was the tip in my case. For some reason, even a new tip at the correct size of the wire created excessive resistance and consequently feed problems. Although I have always used solid wire with gas, perhaps changing to a one size larger size tip will resolve your problem too.

That popping and sputtering sound sure is annoying, huh.

Dave

[hankj]

Something is definitely screwy for there to be that much debris in a relatively new machine.

Poppong and spitting is usually either a dirty workpiece or a wire feed issue. It seems like you've done the obvious things, but it still worries me that you are getting gunk in the drive roll groove, and crap in the liner. For sure, it should not be flux from the wire core. You may just have a bad roll of wire. Check that aspect.

Hank

[mooseye]

If it is flux-core wire or inner shield, it might be that the wire has been mashed out of shape or the wire is split and is loosing the flux before it gets to the weldment. As some one already suggested check your spool of wire. It could have started out ok and then got down to some bad layers.
What does the bead look like. Or can you not even get it to run>? Pictures always help if you have that capability.
I assume you didn't change the drive roll pressure between welding sessions. Is that correct? If you put too much pressure on the flux wire, it will crush and or distort it causing splitting or feeding problems.

[mrcaptainbob]

Well, mushing the wire sounds like a good possibility at this point, Mooseye. Since it was sputtering again I went radical. I set the wire feed pressure gage at 4. (Was at 3.5.) It still spit and sputtered. So (go ahead and holler at me) I turned the roller around so the .020 groove was playing capture to the .035 wire. No difference with the sputtering. I even over drilled one of the tips to about .040. This is so exasperating! What could cause it to go stinky after doing a good weld for an inch? Then the wire shoves the gun tip away with rather firm force. It's contacting clean metal. I noticed this: triggered it off for a couple seconds. Did NOT move the tip. Was most careful about this as I was trying to establish something. Trigger on and at that point got the 'right sound' of welding for what may have been one second and it started popping. I tried that another ten or more times to verify. It's a different sound, look and feel at that start point than what happens at the pop/sizzle/pop point. Those lumps can darn near be knocked off with a sharp hammer blow.
Tomorrow I will take pictures and practice posting them here. I may even try some more experimenting, starting with setting it all back nicely to the correct groove setting (stop the yelling already!) and a more normal pressure. Will also ry to clean the cable interior. Is it okay to use parts cleaner followed by air blasting to clean any flux flakes from feed cable interior?
Thanks again for the help.
Sorry about misplling your name, Dascro.

[Rocky D]

This almost sounds like too much wire speed, or a loose ground wire either at the machine or at the clamp. Does thee ground clamp get hot? After you get it to weld, that is.
It is ok to use a liquid cleaner and air to clean the liner...I always used acetone for this, or MEK. Blow it in both directions. Don't use an oily cleaner like mineral spirits. We would get small bucket and immerse the liner for a few minutes, before blowing it out.

[mooseye]

Well, mushing the wire sounds like a good possibility at this point, Mooseye. Since it was sputtering again I went radical. I set the wire feed pressure gage at 4. (Was at 3.5.) It still spit and sputtered. So (go ahead and holler at me) I turned the roller around so the .020 groove was playing capture to the .035 wire. No difference with the sputtering. I even over drilled one of the tips to about .040. This is so exasperating! What could cause it to go stinky after doing a good weld for an inch? Then the wire shoves the gun tip away with rather firm force. It's contacting clean metal. I noticed this: triggered it off for a couple seconds. Did NOT move the tip. Was most careful about this as I was trying to establish something. Trigger on and at that point got the 'right sound' of welding for what may have been one second and it started popping. I tried that another ten or more times to verify. It's a different sound, look and feel at that start point than what happens at the pop/sizzle/pop point. Those lumps can darn near be knocked off with a sharp hammer blow.
Tomorrow I will take pictures and practice posting them here. I may even try some more experimenting, starting with setting it all back nicely to the correct groove setting (stop the yelling already!) and a more normal pressure. Will also ry to clean the cable interior. Is it okay to use parts cleaner followed by air blasting to clean any flux flakes from feed cable interior?
Thanks again for the help.
Sorry about misplling your name, Dascro.

RockyD mentioned too much wire speed. You can try turning the speed down while welding(or trying to) till you get a smooth feed. Also, overdrilling the tip may cause loss of contact which would make the wire electrically cold for intermittent periods which would push the gun away.
Set the machine as close as possible to your original setting and correct tip and try again while adjusting wire speed down or up to achieve smooth arc.

[Rocky D]

RockyD mentioned too much wire speed. You can try turning the speed down while welding(or trying to) till you get a smooth feed. Also, overdrilling the tip may cause loss of contact which would make the wire electrically cold for intermittent periods which would push the gun away.
Set the machine as close as possible to your original setting and correct tip and try again while adjusting wire speed down or up to achieve smooth arc.

Moose has a good suggestion...it's the way us old timers adjusted the machines before they put gauges on them...with your torch hand, position your torch with the correct stick out, and steady your hand on a block or something, then have the machine where you can turn the wire feed up and down, with the other hand...you can turn the knob, and get the right sweet spot quickly. I also agree about drilling out the contact tube....don't. I never use an oversized contact tube...it will cause more problems, than it solves.

[SundownIII]

MrCaptBob,

Not trying to be a smartazz, but sounds like you should go back to the owners manual and start from there.(copy avail on line if needed).

First off, sounds like you're trying to weld material which your welder was never intended to weld (you stated that when you went to 1/4"...).

Your drive roll should be set for the .030/.035 groove, not the .024 groove (don't think Hobart even has a roller for .020 wire). Wrong groove "will" cause problems. Too much drive roll pressure will deform flux core wire and cause feeding problems through the tip. "Drilling out" the tip to .040 is a BS solution to a bigger problem.

I do not/have not owned a HH135, but from looking at the "Owners Manual" it seems the max recommended material thickness is 3/16" with flux core wire and a 4/30 (V and WS) setting. I'm sure the "little guy" will do 1/4" with multiple passes (non critical welds) but maybe you're just asking a little much from your machine.

You've gotten some good advice as well as some bad advice on this board. I can see why it can be so confusing. That's why I recommend you go back to the owners manual and try to get things back to "normal".

[Clay Walters]

MrCaptBob,

Not trying to be a smartazz, but sounds like you should go back to the owners manual and start from there.(copy avail on line if needed).

First off, sounds like you're trying to weld material which your welder was never intended to weld (you stated that when you went to 1/4"...).

Your drive roll should be set for the .030/.035 groove, not the .024 groove (don't think Hobart even has a roller for .020 wire). Wrong groove "will" cause problems. Too much drive roll pressure will deform flux core wire and cause feeding problems through the tip. "Drilling out" the tip to .040 is a BS solution to a bigger problem.

I do not/have not owned a HH135, but from looking at the "Owners Manual" it seems the max recommended material thickness is 3/16" with flux core wire and a 4/30 (V and WS) setting. I'm sure the "little guy" will do 1/4" with multiple passes (non critical welds) but maybe you're just asking a little much from your machine.

You've gotten some good advice as well as some bad advice on this board. I can see why it can be so confusing. That's why I recommend you go back to the owners manual and try to get things back to "normal".

Drilling out an .035 tip to .040 won't do a thing...its already that size. And the Handler 135 I had would certainly run a good bead on 1/4". I just don't think its a good single pass nor enough oomph for unclean/unprepped metal.

I tend to think its either the wire or the drive roll tension is set too high and is deforming the wire or a grounding issue. You didn't change polarity at some point did you?

Good luck,

Clay

[mrcaptainbob]

Didn't have the chance to try the suggestions today. Will do it Monday. nless remarks are personal or outright condescending, I take all suggestions as honest endeavours of oofers of help. And I thank you all for them.
About over drilling that tip, how does the electricity get to the wire? Does it flow through the whole cable? Or is there a separate wire for the tip? I will return the drive roller back to the .030/.035 groove and set the pressure foot to 3.5 again. As for the wire feed speed, I had it at 40. The metal is 3/16" ( I misspoke...). Will also do a cable soak. I did not check the ground clamp to see if it was hot. What is so exasperating is getting outstanding effort from the machine one minute and lousy effort the next. No change in settings. No change in anything except different place to weld. That's when I started doing the crazy stuff. Then I just let the wire dance on the metal as shown in the one pic with all the snots. There's good weld (okay..for ME it's good!) and then the bad stuff.
As can be seen, there's a butt weld that came out pretty darned good. But then, welding at the cross point went south in a hjurry. What's strange is that the other side of that cross point...the weld came out very nice! Same metal, same T, same clean....yet, something's different.
Again, thanks for the help and
suggestions.

[mooseye]

Didn't have the chance to try the suggestions today. Will do it Monday. nless remarks are personal or outright condescending, I take all suggestions as honest endeavours of oofers of help. And I thank you all for them.
About over drilling that tip, how does the electricity get to the wire? Does it flow through the whole cable? Or is there a separate wire for the tip? I will return the drive roller back to the .030/.035 groove and set the pressure foot to 3.5 again. As for the wire feed speed, I had it at 40. The metal is 3/16" ( I misspoke...). Will also do a cable soak. I did not check the ground clamp to see if it was hot. What is so exasperating is getting outstanding effort from the machine one minute and lousy effort the next. No change in settings. No change in anything except different place to weld. That's when I started doing the crazy stuff. Then I just let the wire dance on the metal as shown in the one pic with all the snots. There's good weld (okay..for ME it's good!) and then the bad stuff.
As can be seen, there's a butt weld that came out pretty darned good. But then, welding at the cross point went south in a hjurry. What's strange is that the other side of that cross point...the weld came out very nice! Same metal, same T, same clean....yet, something's different.
Again, thanks for the help and
suggestions.

Looks like you need to do some prep work on your practice material. Mig does not like paint or rust. You must have an instant ground when the wire contacts the work or you will get the intermittent arc and the gun bouncing. That really is not too bad for a beginer on painted material.
Get it clean and try again.
The power is transmitted to the wire by the copper tip. You do not want the wire getting its current from the liner. It may arc inside the liner and ruin it or cause feeding problems.

[chevyman_de]

I don' think there's a problem with the feeding mechanism.
You don't have enough power at the tip. The butt weld needs less power than the outside of the t-joint, which in turn needs less power than the cross section weld. Here you only have enough power to melt the wire, but nor for creating a weld puddle on the heavy gauge base material. There's a good chance that you don't get enough volts to the welder under full load. Output voltage drops significantly and the beads look like bird droppings. Every single volt counts, especially when you're already stretching a small welders limitations.

Try another butt weld. If it comes out like the previous one, and you can't blame a too small extension cord for the other joints, you know that you have an excuse to get a 230V-welder.

[JalopyBldr]

I didn't have time to read every posting, so if I'm repeating advice, please excuse me.

Along with a clean surface (i.e. no rust, paint, preferably bright, shiney metal) at the weld site, make sure the surface your ground wire is clamped to, is equally clean, bright & shiney.