does lincoln make ANYTHING comparable to the trailblazer302??

[out in the shop]

I am sorta a lincoln guy, and am in the market for an engine driven welder. i need ac/dc, good arc quality and at least 42 amps of 220v to run a hypertherm 1000. I know that the tb302 fulfills those requirements. i have used the tb, and i must say it truelly an awesome machine. i have looked at all the lincoln specs.. they dont say if they are 3ph generators(so they are probably not) does anyone know if lincoln makes anything comparable to the tb302. I dont see anything, and havent really run any of there engine driven welder/gens to know about the welding charactoristics. it may sound funny, but the blue machine would look out of place next to my red ones. i am leaning toward the tb, but would like to hear from lincoln owners/operators, and get there opinions. thanks, todd

[dda52]

Short answer, Nope. Once you get above the Ranger GXT, there is zero AC weld output on any machine. I guess they don't think anyone actually needs AC weld output above a certain level? Kinda strange.

If the TB fits the bill, go for it. I am extremely pleased with mine.

[Sberry]

If I was buying a new portable and especially if I was interested in it as a genset then the TB would be it.

[TRG-42]

Yes, the Ranger 305 . As a generator you cant go wrong with either

If you run any sort of pipe work with a cellulosic electrode the Ranger 305 is a far better choice

In simple terms, the Trailblazer is a rectified alternator ( the alternators ...the Miller brochure calls it a generator but its really not ...output is rectified to make DC . This is the most common design for engine driven welders

The Ranger 305 is a chopper machine. Because if the switching speed , similar to an inverter the DC is smoother and more importantly its VA curve can be tailored with software

In the case of the Ranger 305, you have CC stick ...similar to a Trailblazer but you also have "downhill pipe mode"

This downhill pipe mode comes very close to emulating a true generator machine ( Lincoln SA200, Classic etc ) that all the pipeliners use

You go to pipeline country in Alberta you see mainly Lincoln generators and chopper machines. You will see essentially ZERO trailblazers

If you are just sticking ( sorry for the bad pun ) stuff together then both are great machines

BTW if you think the Miller sales propaganda of using two generators in their design is significant you would be wrong. They do that because they HAVE TO to get the steady welding regardless of AC drain / engine load

This "feature" is standard with a chopper design machine. The demo I do at trade shows is you can weld with stick or GMAW and pull the choke out on the Ranger 305 / 250 while welding . The engine will bog down and its obviously lost rpm but you will not see one bit of variation in the output

All choppers and inverters monitor the output of the welder and can make corrections at more than 20,000 times / sec. This is one advantage they have over the older technology

Only "disadvantage" of the choppers is that they only produce DC output. Most guys will never use the AC . For you guys ( running 7024 etc) who claim how great AC is reducing arc blow...here is some food for thought :

AC is great for reducing arc blow, which becomes a problem only at higher currents.

Athough a Trailblazer 302 can give you AC its AC output rating is serverly reduced ( only 200 amps at 60% duty cycle...compared to its 300amp at 100% duty cycle )

Kinda ironic that you need AC for high current stick welding to reduce arc blow yet you cannot get high AC current out of these machines

So much for the AC advantage on a Trailblazer

[dda52]

Ummm....he said he wanted AC/DC. No red AC output above the GXT....Ever hear of AC TIG?

[ShieldArc]

I am sorta a lincoln guy, and am in the market for an engine driven welder. i need ac/dc, good arc quality and at least 42 amps of 220v to run a hypertherm 1000. I know that the tb302 fulfills those requirements. i have used the tb, and i must say it truelly an awesome machine. i have looked at all the lincoln specs.. they dont say if they are 3ph generators(so they are probably not) does anyone know if lincoln makes anything comparable to the tb302. I dont see anything, and havent really run any of there engine driven welder/gens to know about the welding charactoristics. it may sound funny, but the blue machine would look out of place next to my red ones. i am leaning toward the tb, but would like to hear from lincoln owners/operators, and get there opinions. thanks, todd

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e696.pdf
It will blow the pants off a trailblazer stick welding.

[out in the shop]

yes, the only reason i would want ac is for the ac/hf, obviuosly i would also need a hf box too. and NO pipe welding. yes i do understand that lincoln has the market cornered on pipe welding machines. i am a lincoln kinda guy. and i have also read that you can weld alum. with dc, with 100% pure helium and about 5x the flow rate of hf/ac with argon ( that sounds WAY TOO spendy for me) i looked at the specs on the gxt, ranger10, the chopper SOUNDS interesting, but i have never used a lincoln genset to verify how well it works.
the co. i work for runs 2 bobcats(kinda junk imho) and a legend200. i like the legend, but not enuff 220v output for me. todd

[out in the shop]

sheildarc, you DO think the gxt has better weld charactoristics( or equal to) the tb, i really would like that to be true, maybe i will go to the lws's but all three in my region push blue. certain regions have different (most populars).
i am the type to go against the grain. dodge, lincoln, yamaha, matco. all are not the BIG ONES in there respective fields. todd

[dda52]

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/e696.pdf
It will blow the pants off a trailblazer stick welding.

If it was a Chopper machine, you might have a shot....but that isn't even a chopper. It is a single phase AC gen with rectified DC output....just a beefed up Ranger 10K. How is that gonna beat a three phase arc?


Todd, if it is that big of a deal, go to the LWS's and try them out. You may have to have a rep bring them by for you to try out. Running them side by side will be the only way to answer your question. I personally thing the TB would beat a GXT since that unit is the head to head competitor with the Bobcat 250.

[ShieldArc]

sheildarc, you DO think the gxt has better weld charactoristics( or equal to) the tb, i really would like that to be true, maybe i will go to the lws's but all three in my region push blue. certain regions have different (most populars).
i am the type to go against the grain. dodge, lincoln, yamaha, matco. all are not the BIG ONES in there respective fields. todd

I would have to weld with both to know. But i can tell you i dont like millers 3phase arc, its too soft and sometimes unstable! Ive had 3 new trailblazers in the past and in my opinion they are not suitable for a highly skilled weldors. I cant believe how many people miller convinced that a 3phase alternator is gods gift to weldors. Believe me if it was sooo good all the manufactures would have it in their welders!! I can tell you that Lincolns chopper welders are excellent. I welded a mile of 6" high pressure nat gas to a bio-diesel plant a month ago and seen weldors using gxt welders installing piping there. Now i have no idea how good they are as i never welded with one. Go out and demo some welders and see what you like and dont like. You need only to satisfy yourself.

[TozziWelding]

I have TB301 and it is a good all purpouse machine, and it stays on the truck all the time. I also have 2 big old gray Lincolns, that I use for running lots, and lots of sticks. The TB is good for pushing wire, TIG and most stick. If I get a pipe job, or need to butr 6010/7018 all day the big old Lincoln SA-250, or 200 cant be beat.

[TRG-42]

Ummm....he said he wanted AC/DC. No red AC output above the GXT....Ever hear of AC TIG?

The fact that the Ranger 250 and above does not have AC output for TIG is actually not that important

To get the AC Tig you need the high frequency box . In the past 8 or so years I can count how many Miller HF251s or Lincoln "Tig Modules" on half a hand. Reason for this is for the cost of one of these boxes, TIG torches, regulators and foot / hand current control you can buy a small Precison Tig, Syncrowave for the same money and plug it into the Ranger

Have you actually welded with one of these engine drives on AC ?? I assure you that a Precision Tig / Syncrowave / Dynasty / Invertec are far better tig machines than a engine drive with a HF box

First reason is there is no engine drive that gives you low amp AC ....low current operation is an important characteristic in TIGs. That is why the "Econo Tig" was a poor tig machine compared to the Synchrowave. You cant get less than about 30 amps in AC ( the NEW trailblazers )

**** a Bobcat and Ranger GXT can't get BELOW 50 amps AC ( thats a high low end for a TIG btw ) . Why someone would use a Bobcat with a HF box for tig is beyond me . For comparison, a Syncrowave / PRecison Tig will all go to 5amps or less, like all real tig machine should

No engine drive gives you pulse . Some people may not care but if you can have it with a dedicated TIG that is plugged into your engine drive it shure is nice to have

We often get guys doing TIG out in the field where they are over 25' from their welder. When you start running over 25' of lead for AC Tig you loose much of the HF to a point where it can be unusable . You can run over a 100ft of extention cord and plug a Dynasty in the end of it . I see lost of this living on the Coast where there is lost of mobile welders that need to do work on boats but cant park their rig on the dock

The last and most obvious advantage with buy a dedicated TIG and plugging it into your engine drive is you have two welders ...one that can be run in your shop when not needed on your rig

We do lots of demos with these small Tigs pluged into the auxilliary power and more than 95% of the guys that weld with both would rather have a real TIG machine

Last Thought of The Day

This is a real nice academic discussion but as we all know the real world is a different thing all together

I do over 20 open houses / trade shows a year, and the most popular demo that people ask for is TIG welding aluminum. The demo that is by FAR the most finicky to do OUTSIDE is Tig aluminum ( MIG aluminum is also a pain ) . Even though all our welding tables has 3 enclosed sides, any small gust to wind affects the arc. We have had many customers who get kitted out with a TIG to do out in the field but abandon that idea because of the practicality of TIG welding aluminum outside

[Sberry]

Good stuff here,,, you write and I read.

[out in the shop]

trg 42, i must say, you do make many valid points, and are very convincing. i did understand the lowside limits of e.d.w's. and in my particular instance, i would have a hardtime getting ANOTHER 200 lb welder in the truck, finding a dry, secure(no theives) place to put it. and a dynasty is alot of ching to drop for the one or two mobile tig jobs i get in a year needing achf, i am actually thinking you may be on the right track. if they need their alum. welded THAT BADLY, they can get it to my shop, where i can buzz it up with the squarewave255. i am seeing the logic in your statement. maybe the whole ac thing is unnessasary in my situation. well that settles it , im undecided todd

[ShieldArc]

I had the HF251 on the 3 trailblazers i had in the past, the tig arc was disappointing to say the least. When i switched to a Ranger 305G with the spool gun, life suddenly became great! I can say that spool gun paid for itself many times over. Also the ranger mig welds a lot better than the trailblazers did.

So, the cheapest and best way to do everything is,

Ranger 305G
Spool gun
Invertec V205-T AC/DC (the new redesigned one)
LN25
Air-arc torch