going to get new tank, which gas?

[ace4059]

I am going to setup my PM215 for spray arc. first off what is the best gas for that welder for spray arc. I know 90/10, 93/7, and 98/2 will all work on the higher output machines, but will the gas be ok for my PM215. So what is the best gas for spray arc for my machine (keep in mind my machine max is 250 amps)


So I will need either a new tank with different gas in it. I have a few options
Option 1: Keep my 75/25 tank and get new tank with one of the three gas listed above.
Option 2: Just change over my 75/25 tank above to one of the three gases and just use that for my all welding and eat the extra cost of the gas.
Option3: dont buy anything new,keep my setup the way it is and just switch over my tig tank (100% Ar) every time for spray transfer.

So what would you all do it in my situation?
Thanks for any advice.
Ryan

[MAC702]

I'm going to guess 98%Ar / 2% O2, but let's see what the guys more experienced with that machine say.

[Mike W]

Another alternative is to get a gas mixer and mix your own. I tried 95% argon and 5% CO2. I got .035 wire to spray at about 195 amps. Pure argon won't work.

[SundownIII]

Ace,

I agree wholeheartedly with Mac. 98%A/2%O. With your machine, you don't want the gas working against you. Sounds like time for a new tank. 100% Argon won't cut it. Needs the heat the Oxygen brings.

Mike W,

Just a question.

If you're mixing the gas yourself, why not hook up to the Oxygen bottle from the O/A rather than using CO2?

I'm not familiar with the mixing system you're using (never used one) but I'd be very interested in hearing more (manufacturer, capababilities, etc). Sounds like a great way to eliminate at least one extra bottle.

[hankj]

The MM210 sprays nice with 98%Ar/2% O². I think the voltage on that PM215 migh be high enough at top end to run 90% Ar/10% CO², and if so, that will do for all of your GMAW work.

Hank

[ace4059]

will 98/2 work for all my needs? if so anyone know how much it is for that mix.

ALSO, what about a tri-mix gas, will that be better. how much more would tri mix be over 98/2.

[Mike W]

SundownIII, do a search for Smith gas mixer. I got mine used for argon and CO2. There are other ones for different gases. The new price is not cheap. You just set the dial to select the mixture you want. It works pretty good.

[ace4059]

here is what was posted on the miller fourm
the question was "will 100% Ar gas work for spray transfer".
here was the response.

Sorry it takes so long for me to reply, I'm rodeoing allot right now, and I'm gone for a couple weeks at a time.

Yes, 100% Argon is fine. Sheilding gas mixtures are used for a variety of reasons. One is that an expensive gas is mixed with a ceaper gas to lower the overall cost. Another is influence of the weld puddle and arc characteristics. Helium is often added to increase penetration, oxygen as a stabalizer, CO2 because it's cheap. There are advantages and trade offs with all of them. For example, 100% Argon gives a very attractive bead, but its not as cheap as CO2, but CO2 gives allot of splatter....

I posted this question in the Miller weld section but that fourum is very slow to get responses.

O, the gas mixers are out of my price range. (I looked them up and they are anywhere from 1,000 to 4,500 dollars)

[ace4059]

I tried to use the spray transfer with 100% Ar. Well, It did work,kinda, but then again it was terrible with the spray. It would switch from globular to spray for about a inch or so the switch back to globular. I just dont want to get the 98/2 and it be like the pure argon with the spray. With pure argon there was lots of undercut and the bead was piled high and very narrow.I tried changing the wire speed (between 400-600 ipm) but the bead never flattened out. The spray was prety cool, it looked like the end of the tungston (simular arc and cone shape) also it was really silent (no cooking bacon sound) with NO splatter.

Dan, what were you using for the spray trans when you had a MM210?

[Mike W]

Pure argon will not work with steel. Mix up a little CO2 and it will work.

[Mike W]

This is with 5% CO2. The current is about 195 amps.

[Black Wolf]

I am reading this as you are trying to Spray Arc Transfer with a Lincoln Electric PowerMig 215. If I am off base here please disregard. If you check the machine ratings on the Lincoln Electric site, the PowerMig 215 is not capable of true Spray Arc. It does not matter what gas you use. Short Circuit Transfer up to 20V. Globular Transfer 20V to 26.5V. Spray Arc 26.5V and up. These are very general numbers and can be disputed within a Volt. The point is, the PM215 tops out around 24 Volts, which is globular transfer.

True Spray Arc cannot be achieved without at least 26V and a minimum 85% Argon content. Period.

Balance of gas can be a mixure of CO2, O2, He, etc. or 100% Argon. CO2 is recommended because it is cheapest. Pure Argon is most expensive. Oxygen is used because it raises temperature of molten metal and helps puddle wet out to the toes of the weld. Helium increases penetration but again is pricey and is not needed for this application. Sometimes people on here try to get too "tricky" with all this crap when it is not neccessary.

If you take the time to go to Lincoln Electric's website, or read your owner's manual, it gives you recommendations for gases. For mild steel either GMAW or FCAW 100% CO2 is recommended first, and an Argon/CO2 blend is recommended second. Lincoln knows the PM215 cannot spray arc and that is reflected in their recommendations.

My guess is from reading your post, is that you are dialing back the wire feed speed until you are achieving a partial burnback towards your tip. It shows a spray cone of sorts, and becomes very quiet, and you can get a weld bead like is shown by the previous pictures, BUT this is not spray arc. Your machine cannot do it. Agonizing over which gas or gas blend is a useless waste of time. Straight CO2 which has lots of spatter at the higher Voltages, or an Argon/CO2 blend to control spatter. That's it. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I am on the Miller sites in addition to a couple others. We get posts like this all the time. The reason for slow posting, or not at all (for myself anyway) is that A) this question is overdone. and B) the information is in the owner's manual or on the manufacturer's website and people are too lazy to look for themselves.

Later,

[Mike W]

Good point Black Wolf. I keep forgetting that some machines are......lacking a little on the voltage output. My Hobart Beta-Mig has a max no load (open circuit) voltage of 40 volts. The rated welding voltage is 28 volts.

[MAC702]

My "guess" (which I made clear) was based on others' experiences with the MM210, which I then assumed was comparable.

I'll have to go check Miller's numbers on that machine, but there are guys that spray arc with them with the 98Ar/2O2 gas, right?

[SundownIII]

Black Wolf,

I also appreciate your informed info. I also made some invalid assumptions not being totally familiar with the Lincoln. I assumed it comparable to the MM210.

Not only did you say it couldn't be done, you backed it up with hard, verifiable evidence.

Thanks