New HH187 and 220V wiring question

[matt7340]

I just bought a HH187 and need to change my 220V receptacle in my detached garage. I've discovered that the lighting is powered from one of the 110V feeds of this receptacle. Will wiring the new receptacle like this be a problem? The 110V load is basically 6 60W light bulbs, so it isn't overly large.

Any advice is appreciated. I'm itching to try out my new welder.

[enlpck]

I just bought a HH187 and need to change my 220V receptacle in my detached garage. I've discovered that the lighting is powered from one of the 110V feeds of this receptacle. Will wiring the new receptacle like this be a problem? The 110V load is basically 6 60W light bulbs, so it isn't overly large.

Any advice is appreciated. I'm itching to try out my new welder.

Presuming you truely have 220:

Run another circuit for lighting or, if the feeder circuit is heavy enough, put in a subpanel with independant breakers for the lighting and welder outlet. The first time you blow the breaker with the welder, you will appreciate the light. I am NOT a fan of lighting being on the same circuit as anything else in a shop.

This is totally aside from the code issues involved with sharing 110 and 220 on the same circuit. Especially where the load is heavy enough that it is supposed to have a dedicted circuit.

[Sberry]

There are a lot of details that need to come out before you can get an answer. What kind of wire, how big, how many conductors feed the garage, it this some home brew install? Is there a disconnect means at the garage?

[hankj]

Hi, Matt, and welcome.

I suspect you have a problem. I'm guessing that somebody ran a single circuit out to the garage (no panel in the garage) from the house service panel and just ran three wires - two hot's and a neutral, then scabbed the lights off of one hot leg and the neutral. If that's it, it ain't code, brother.

Do some investigation and let us know what's up - wire size, # of conductors, breaker size, and all that. We'll get ya trough it!

Hank

[matt7340]

Thanks for the replies. The garage is fed by 10/4 wire (each conductor is stranded, which surprised me) and is fed by a proper 220V circuit breaker from the main house panel. The breaker is only 20A (upgrading that was my next question ).

At the 220V receptacle in the garage, both the neutral and ground conductors were connected to the receptacle neutral. At the panel, the neutral and ground conductors are fed to different bus bars. There is no disconnect at the garage.

The run from the panel to the garage receptacle is probably around 50 feet.

[hankj]

Wow.

The neutral bus and the equipment ground bus should be bonded in the main panel. Disconnect the ground from the neutral wire in the garage. An equipment ground should never be tied to a grounded conductor (the neutral) except in the main house service panel.

How is the 120V lighting circuit derived?

The right thing to do would be to put a 60A (or larger) panel in the garage.

Hank

[Sberry]

So there is no panel in the garage? Since it is fused at 20A in the house it does protect your existing circuits. There really should be a disconnect. Although they make 2 space panels get a 6 for 5$ more and a separate ground bar. You can then change to a 30 in the house and add a couple breakers in the garage for light circuits, you could even split them up. You can run legal with that and weld but I am with Hank and I would bite the bullet if it was my place and run a new set of conductors, dig up the old wire and put in a new one. Mornings work and 100$ in materials and my garage would have the power to work from.

[matt7340]

The lighting circuit is older two-conductor wire (home was built in 1956, garage soon after). The white conductor is simply connected to the same post as the neutral/ground of the 220V. The black is powered from one of the 110V lines of the 10/4.

Sounds like the temp solution would be my best bet at the moment. I'd like to go with the proper garage panel, but the ground is frozen and under two feet of snow (with two feet more due this Fri).

If I do the upgrade this summer and run new conductors white size wire should I be using? Should I go with 8/3 w/ ground? Larger?

Also if I disconnect the ground from the receptacle, should I connect that to the receptacle box or panel instead?

Thanks again for the replies, it's been very helpful.