Still confused

[Jaxom]

Month or so ago I posted about needing trailer plans. I'm still confused as what I really want to do. Should I build or buy? I've seen some really nice deals on trailers on the likes of craigslist. But I have such varied needs/uses for a trailer, I just don't know what route would be best to go.

In all reality, I need three trailers in one. First I need a flat trailer so I can haul building supplies like 2x4's and drywall. Secondly, I need a tailer becuase I want to either build or buy a smallish boat to fish on my local forest preserve lakes. And third, I want a trailer for all my camping gear that I can use as a mobile kitchen once I get to a campsite.

I have a 2002 jeep liberty sport with the tow package already installed. Once I get back to work one of my intentions is to put a 2" lift kit on it. I don't often camp in nice pristene level camp sites. I would hesitate call the trails "roads" into these sites. And while there are dozens of places that offer plans for trailers, non offer what I would term an "suv" trailer. One with more ground clearence then a standard trailer with 14" wheels. It wouldn't make sence to have a tow vehilce capable of reaching the sites I want to go to, if the trailer I'm towing can't.

suggestions?

Jax

[Clay Walters]

After you build one you'll know better how to get where you want. Waiting around until you have "everything" figured out is a good way to be jolted into inaction. I know its expensive so build something nice enough you can sell.

Having spent some time in the boonies and dragging stuff in to where you really shouldn't be I have to say that while it can be done, is done all the time, you do get into hassles and; dragging a trailer just invites its own share of trouble. You can offset some above the wheel centerline but not by much. Only way to effect ground clearance is larger wheels and you can make the trailer squirrely trying to get the clearance but then who cares to pull it?

The military has hauled all kinds of stuff around behind jeeps for many moons and you may find inspiration by looking into their rigging.

I built my first trailer last year using this axle. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...70_31646_31646

I wanted a lighter trailer than I could find locally because my car isn't truly intended for pulling a trailer. Also, I wanted a softer ride under lighter loads so I used the longest springs I could find. I can bolt or unbolt side rails which gives me some configuration options but truthfully I couldn't haul anything really heavy on it. And this is what I wanted from it.

What was truly neat about the project is I gained confidence I could build another one to suit different needs.

What was not so neat is I learned that if a commercially built trailer like I want can be had at say....Tractor Supply?; I can't build it myself for less cost.

So, as many folks that have asked me if I would sell my trailer I bet they wouldn't be interested if I shot a price of only my cost to them.

I enjoyed do it, found satisfaction in doing it, and mine pulls straight as a bullet. Some of those ready-made's get squirrelly above 50mph.

Hope you'll figure out what you want and build it. If you don't like it, sell it, take your lumps, and try again.

Good luck,

Clay

[tigger1]

Check out the M416 trailers at your Army Surplus store. That'll give you some ideas as to which way to go. Those are 1/4 ton trailers.........I'm looking to get one and completely referb it.

[Doolittle]

Yep, what those guys said.

You cant build it cheaper than you can buy one. Even scraping around will still cost you in time money and effort. The shop being cluttered with half built pieces while you scrounge for the next bit you need. And of course the registration is another deturrent.

But....

When you build your own, Its yours dangit! You built it, You can fix it. The experience gained is allways a plus (just think of it as a investment in your education). None of us know your situation, shop space, free time, urgency for the trailer big enough welder to tackle the job etc.

I build my own stuff when I can, but I personally do not have the room to tackle a big project like that, Ill stick with mail boxes tables jigs, repairs etc. I'd purchase a trailer if and when I ever need one but would still think about just renting one ( no place to park it).

[Jaxom]

Yeah, I hear what you all are saying. Even craigslist has trailers from $100-$500, prob much cheaper then what I can build if going by parts. Let me ask this then to those who have owned or own a trailer. It seems to most come with 14" and 15" wheels. I have seen some with teeny tiny 8" ones, but I don't think I'd touch that one, as it's a bolt together job.

As I've stated, my intentions are to add a 2 1/2" lfit on the tow vehicle. I'm also going to add those plates behind the wheels to help with changing the center of gravtiy as well as prevent the tires from rubbing on the inside. Like the commercial says, "wider is better". I'm also concidering swapping out the 16's for 17's on the jeep as well. Just what is usually the largest wheel I can put on a trailer that was designed with 15's in mind?

One thing that came to mind, and I'm wondering would be legal to do. Excuse my lack of proper terms here. Once you have the basic frame built there's that piece that you weld to the frame. Then when you attach the leaf spring and that bushing slips inside of it and you stuff a bolt through attaching the spring to the frame... Okay, what if I were to weld in some 2-3" vertical pieces then a second horizonal frame piece, before welding the spring bracket thing. With that and mebbe some 16's on the trailer, I believe I'll come close to haveing the same clearence my jeep has.

Jax

[BeZe]

Since he was reffering to making his wheelbase wider. He was likely correct when referring to a spacer.

If you are looking to get ground clearance the doing a spring over axle on the trailer is the best way to go. Remember though that while this will give the body of the trailer(or vehicle) increased clearance it does not help that much as the axle still needs to clear obstacles.

I vote for building your trailer. But buy a used one and then transform it.

I bought a car carrier that since it was designed for a vehicle had no springs. The axles was welded directly to the frame.
I cut that off and added a 9,000lbs drop axle-- now I can use it for other cargo.
Then I bought a piece of diamond plate and welded it between the runners- now I have a flatbed.
Then I welded up a removable box so that I can carry dry cargo. Box is easily removable in case I want to carry vehicle.

I tried posting a picture but it is a litttle too big for this forum

[BigEd_36]

I tried posting a picture but it is a litttle too big for this forum

Then resize 'em smaller and post 'em, you know we want to see 'em. You can use Irfanview to resize your pics smaller. Irfanview is a free download from www.irfanview.com. It's not a very big download, but this photo program works great, and is very simple to use. I use it for all my photos needing resizing, even make my avatar pics with it. If you have any questions on using Irfanview, just ask, I'll be glad to help.

Ed

[Jaxom]

'k...taking mega notes here. For the record though, the wheel spacers are going on the tow vehicle, the jeep. I was thinking of saving a buck or three by taking the stock rims and using those for the trailer. If the bolt patern is correct.

Ya know, I seem to recall a website for trailer plans. The owner was out of alaska, he no longer builds them, but sells his plans, and one of them looked like it had the clearnence that I desire. The only reason I didn't buy the plans is the bed is only 4'x4'. I wonder if with some help here if I could make that larger, say min of 5' W x 9'L?

Jax

[Clay Walters]

Jax,

My little trailer is 5'x8'. A foot longer would be no problem. Everything was 3/16"mild steel. 2"angle for everything but the tongue (2 1/2" sq tube) and side rails (1 1/2" angle). Wheels were 12".

http://www.tie1on.net/Pontoon/trailer.htm

Regards,

Clay

[BeZe]

OK here it is. The box was deliberately built to not take up the whole bed so that. I could store long pieces or combustables.

At the front wall of the trailer you will see that the cross bar has a space in the middle. This also was done delibertly as there is going to be a mount there for the spare tire.

Most of the "parts" for this trailer have been salvaged scrap materials. And as explained in earlier email it has undergone at least 4 transformations as my needs changed.

This thing is very heavy duty and is cabable of carrying heavy equipment. I went with a single 9,000lbs axle instead of a tandem axle in order to save money on tolls. In general a tandem would have towed better but as long as the load is balanced correctly it tows fine.

[Jaxom]

Clay, beze,

Thanks for the pics! It's starting to give me some more ideas and options. Did you guys order your plans off the net? Or are you one of those special people able to dream up this stuff without even drawing it out and having it come out just right? Personally, I'm more the sort that needs plans on hand, then I do a good job!

Having said that, now I have a "what-if" sorta question. What if I went to a bone yard and got a rear axle off another jeep? How do you handle the extra stuff like the breaks, springs, shocks, caping off the gear box after the drive rod has been removed.

Clay, I like the idea of removable sides. Do you have a close-up picture of those? Do you I could easily build taller sides and a roof and still keep it all weather proof?


thanks,

Jax

[BeZe]

Northern tool used to have a pretty decent book that you could buy for building trailers. It was pretty good as it outlined some of the engineering for weights, axle placement etc.

also
www.trailerplans.com
www.trailerplans.org

I used to think that the trailers made out of a truck axle were pretty cool especially when they included the P/U bed. but that may not be the way to go for you. I would look for a place that moves mobile homes ( or check one of your local Bargain hunter type magazines) and you can usually P/U two axles plus the tongue assembly for less that $100. These are already wired for brakes and then all you have to do is assemble the carrier and the box frame ( or whatever type of bed that you want). I would suggest building the carrier for the axles (Basically a trailer for the trailer) so that the positioning of the axles can be adjusted. I built a trailer one time for this guy for a single piece of heavy machinery. After 6 months he bought a smallish bobcat that could fit on the trailer but it gave him too little tongue weight. with the carrier we were able to simply move the axles back a bit so that the trailer would still be balanced when loaded.

[Clay Walters]

Jax,

When I decided I needed to rent a truck or a trailer to haul some things back from Texas after my mom died last year I discovered the limitations of my car when it came to pulling a trailer. Even the smaller U-Hauls were really too heavy. And, the cost of renting the truck and fuel one-way was pretty steep since I doubted the items I was going to get would make that a sensible choice. But, I did have an obligation to clear my aunt's barn and home AND I already had acquired a welder for another project. While considering what it would cost to rent a truck I noticed the utility trailers in front of a local Home Depot one day and realized that it may just be smarter to buy one. The project I was working on was a small one-man, aluminum framed, pontoon craft and I had intended to get a trailer to cart it around but to get one ready-made & wide enough to set it in and not chafe the pontoon fabric was much larger than I wanted to store in my garage. But a flatbed trailer wouldn't have sides to rub the pontoon fabric and could be a tad narrower and by building it myself I could put a lighter suspension in an effort to not have a lightly loaded trailer jolt the contents so roughly.

After seeing how they were constructed at Lowe's, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, and Northern Tool I didn't see anything configured like I wanted nor did they impress me with their assembly or paint finish. Many had rusty spots and meager welds as they sat brand new offered for sale in the parking lots.

Like you I was uncertain just how to go about it but I could tell it didn't have to be all that precise either. I determined the tongue length I wanted and had a feel for the tongue weight I wanted and knew to place the axle rearward to make certain the weight was forward without making it too difficult to lift and move around. I've pulled a number of trailers over the years and am familar with handling (or in some cases, poor handling) them.

I also needed side, front, & rear rails for this run but didn't want them on most of the time. Without making this story any longer let me just say its my opinion the very first step is to determine the type of load you intend to use it for most often and acquire the complete axle assembly sized for that intent. Mounts, springs, shackles, hubs, wheels, & axle - all assembled. Then you'll know just how wide to build the frame, where you'll need to weld the mounts, fenders, etc. and then where you can place cross braces. It will be much easier for you to visualize the type of decking and how to fasten it too. I went with a straight tongue and made it where I can remove it, convert it to tilt later if I wish, lengthen it, make it telescoping, etc. If and when I quit fooling with the pontoon boat I can also bolt the sides and rails on and then weld them on permanently with no problem if I wish.

Lastly, it turned out to be pretty simple but I have to admit I also have a pretty simple trailer. And it cost me more to build it than what I could buy one with even more features for. But mine was carefully assembled, surface prepped, cold-galvanized, then primed, then color coated. I used galvanized rims, galvanized bolts, treated lumber 3/4" lumber and carpeted the deck. None of those ready-made's sported that. And I was careful to square the hitch to the axle and my trailer pulls straight and doesn't get squirrely. Fully assembled and empty it weighs less than 400 lbs and my car doesn't even know its there. It would never do to haul a 2-ton load on it but then that's not what it was designed for. One that was would be too heavy and too stiff a ride for what I needed.

If you'll make the effort to get going on your project I've no doubt you'll wrestle with how to achieve some design points, will make compromises, and will learn how to better go about it should you build another one. And planning ahead will help tremendously but in the end you have to do it to realize anything further. Also, you need to be willing to accept the fact that it might not turn out exactly as you envisioned, cost more than you want, take more time and effort than you wished. Hopefully you'll enjoy and benefit from the project.

But, if all you're after is a trailer.........do yourself a favor and just go buy one!

Kindest regards,

Clay

BTW - you should be able to pause your curser over a pic and have the option to zoom in very close. Feel free to pm me if I can help you brainstorm anything. (Believe you should consider skid mounting but build the trailer as just a trailer.)

[Terry Lingle]

If you are looking for maximum ground clearance find a drop axle from a travel trailer and reverse it - a 3 inch drop will add 3 inches of clearance.
That is the equivalent of 6 inches in tire diameter, plus it eases fender clearance by the same amount . The only thing you must do is get the camber and caster reset at a good frame shop. The torque on the springs is the same just in the opposite direction.
I did this on an old trtavel trailer that I use as a mobile bush home . it has about 4 " more clearance than my4 X 4 .

As far as the build / buy issue you will learn a lot more building but it will cost more.

If you do not understand the stress and loading issues or are not 100 % sure of your welding a trailer is not a good place to learn as your errors could affect somebody else.
Terry

[Jaxom]

I know it may seem ambitious to build a trailer as a first off project, but it's something I actually do need and would get use out of. Especially if I can design it to my own specs and with features that would specifically suit me. I'm gonna take a look around for that book you mentione beze. I think I did see someone offering something like that on one of the trailer plans sites.

Clay, boy do I understand where you are coming from. My grandmother passed away a few years back. We couldn't get a truck in time to get all the stuff out of her house, so the new owner most likely ended up with some nice goodies or hauling it all to the local dump. Then of course, if you've ever done any remodling projects around the house, the worst thing to have happen is get to U-haul on the day you wanna get supplies, only to find out every truck and trailer has been rented.

Several folks have mentioned that due to the safety issues involved, buying a trailer would be the best option for new welders. Believe me I do understand your concerns. During my welding class, I got to know my welding instructor fairly well. I still have his email adress and for the price of a 6 pack I'm sure he'd be willing to come over and do an inspection of my project before it even hits the road. If not, I can always wait till my next class starts and ask that instructor...

Clay....sidebar.... You ever get that mini pontoon built? Ironically THAT is exactilly what I'm looking for! I've done some googling and come across a few sites that sell pontoon kits. Is that the same route you went? You see the area I live in, the local forest preserve lakes only allow electric motors. And the two lakes that allow gas, have a max of 5hp. But really who needs a big, fast boat on a lake that's mebbe at best 20 acres? There are of course all those plasic boats now around, but the weight limits are obsurdly low. I'm a big guy at 6' and 275lbs. Add battery, motor, gear...ect, and I'd more then exceed most of those boats safety limits! And then if my fishing buddy wants to go with... OY! I'd certainly like to hear more about this pontoon, perhaps in a different thread?


Jaxxx