L.I H. ??s for smiths (forge welding)

[vicegrip]

Fresh thread , same topic .......reguarding the Linear Impact Hammer ......having discovered that the linear induction motor wasn't a good application to this project but that the pernanent magnet inducion motor certainly is ...a few new ???s have surfaced.....

To simply forge (reshape / displace) the metal I am thinking that the blows could be more of the lighter peen , higher impact / speed variety ...getting the most bank for your buck so to speak ....preserving the "heat" in the work peice (less actual real-time) that the peen ; part ; and anvil-face are in solid contact with each other......

for the forge weld how ever ...I picture a heavy-er peen , a smoother lower speed blow to allow for the joining of the two halves , and the expulsion of the flux ...and to maximise the working life of each "heat" the return stroke would be as fast as practically possible just short of the point of causing a rebounding of the whole frame of at least the upper driving portion......does this sound like the characteristics of a good power-hammer cycle

the thinking is that the downward and upward strokes can easilly be tailored as to the ballance of speed and force ......with the L.M. technologies available today

Please feel free to take these threads to any more realavent forums ......I do not have time to monitor anymore forums ....and frankly anvilfire and practical machinist seem slugish for me to post in....I have had 20 minutes of typing simply vanish more than once

if someone can get ahead of me on this ....great all I ask is that progress and improvement be relayed back to me , and others interested in this concept !!!

Please keep imput based on EXPERIENCE-forging and forge welding ....
and note assumptions and conjectures as such , to keep the foundational research on this at a pure-ist level , Thankyou in advance for your help

ViceGrip ......Phil J. .....Nomad / Metal worker

REVEIW of concept :

prototype trip-hammer (forging power-hammer)
need to drive peen directly or indirectly with L.M. or L.I.M.>>>
hydrolic coupling >>master-cylinder / slave-cylinder , with air cushion most likely design>>
single phase and DC prefered but concept will be advanced even if 3 phase only>>>
air powered hammers are the inspiration, but terribly inefficient ...and
control of speed & force and return make L.M.s a very big hopefull

[Blacksmith]

I have never been very sucessful at forge welding, but it seems to take a light well aimed touch. All the guys I know that do it all the time use a hand hammer and anvil; this includes a professional metalworker and a farrier in my local blacksmith's guild and the head blacksmith of Colonial Williamsburg. The object is to cause intimate contact between two pieces that are heated near white hot and are tending to stick to each other anyway. The necessary blows may vary from one to the next, I don't see a power or tredle hammer working well for this.

[vicegrip]

I have never been very sucessful at forge welding, but it seems to take a light well aimed touch. All the guys I know that do it all the time use a hand hammer and anvil; this includes a professional metalworker and a farrier in my local blacksmith's guild and the head blacksmith of Colonial Williamsburg. The object is to cause intimate contact between two pieces that are heated near white hot and are tending to stick to each other anyway. The necessary blows may vary from one to the next, I don't see a power or tredle hammer working well for this.

Very likely , and stated well , it remains to be seen if sencitive control can be acheived from one blow to the next or not !

Thanks for the input : Phil

[Bob Warner]

I have a couple pennies to donate here.

Power hammers in general in my experience do not work well for welding.

To weld you need clean steel, all you have to do to weld is touch two pieces of clean stell together when they are hot enough. If you have all the conditions correct and hit the steel hard, it usually will not weld, if you tap it it welds fine. This is also why hydraulic presses got so popular with knifemakers. you stack your pieces and flux them good, then just squeeze them together (pushing out the flux). Works VERY welld. But a hard shock does not do so well. Treadle hammers are good for welding. You can give easy taps over a pretty large area. This squeezes out the flux and helps push the steel together.

So, if I had a power hammer I would use it for forging operations like drawing out materials etc.... Not for welding. I would weld with a hammer before using the power hammer. It is simply easier to me.

Here is a picture of welding with the press (This is the piece of steel I used to make the knife below).



Here is the hammer version of the same thing



Here is the finished product

[Hotfoot]

That's a beautiful knofe, BOB!

[Blacksmith]

Nice knife Bob. In my blacksmith's guild, we refer to railroad spikes as "knife kits".

[vicegrip]

Smiths ! Thanks for the imput , exactly what I was looking for ....

what is likely not so clear is .........

A , When I first started to pursue a quiet-er , more efficient Hammer , I was convinced that the damaged sienues in my various joints was never going to improve to the point that hammering would not cronnicaly agrivate it.

B , That I am considerably hard of hearing , and hate the sound of an air compresser , and discharging air cylinders or a hydrolic pump unit.

C , That I am convinced that there will be an emphasis on minimal costs for hobby and pro-shops , for evermore .....elecricity , tools ....metal for homemade eqipt. etc.

I still think that this consept and a few others can adress these issues ....at least for forging in general , and hopefully ....a surprising level of variable control will even make this good for at least larger forge welding .....and medium work ...perhaps tapered fullering as
well

my Dad still had plenty of creativity and drive left .....when he had no gristle left in his elbos , and very little left in his shoulders . A little power assist could have extended his creative life-span a bit more .....He was not into smithing ....but dabbled with nearly all forms of craftsman-ship and I pictured a figurative 74 year old smith who's mind may out-last his skelatin ....

Thanks again

Phil

[Bob Warner]

In my blacksmith's guild, we refer to railroad spikes as "knife kits".

In the knifemaking world we call them "Novelty items."

But not this one. There is NO railroad spike steel in this knife at all.

You want a challenge? Take ten pieces of steel, 5 of each type 1.5" X 1/8" X 6" and forge them into an exact duplicate of a railroad spike. Not as easy as it may look. You will want a nap when you are done.

Bob

[Wyoming]

In the knifemaking world we call them "Novelty items."

But not this one. There is NO railroad spike steel in this knife at all.

You want a challenge? Take ten pieces of steel, 5 of each type 1.5" X 1/8" X 6" and forge them into an exact duplicate of a railroad spike. Not as easy as it may look. You will want a nap when you are done.

Bob

Bob,
I was wondering how the heck you damasced that railroad spike and still kept the shape. Didn't take long at all to figure you must have forged it into that shape after working the layers together. Beautiful knife, but is the work lost on most folks?