Dan,what is a good setting on one to weld 3/16?I welded with almost all the hobarts,except the 125.I did see the miller rep run it with flux-core.I wasn't real happy with any of them.I am going tomorow,and try it again.The arc to me was real fuzzy,and didn't seem to have alot of range.It would almost seem to want to go into globular transfer way earlier than I am use to.That was with .035,and 75/25.I only welded with it for about five minutes so it's not a very good test,but I would like your imput.There must be something up with that machine,because the Sp175 arc is much much better.That's what I told the Miller rep when he asked want did I think of it.He's the one that asked,and I don't think he was counting on that answer.I am going to try to get my welding store friend to weld with it,and see if he can nail it down.
I did hook up a 185 Thermal-arc to weld with it.It's a pretty good unit with great arc starts.It's about the same on dc as mine,but on ac it is different.It works fine,but it's got a edge to the arc,it's not as smooth as the 300 prowave.I really don't think it matters that much though.I have admit the analog controls on mine are way more user friendly.I can adjust mine while I am welding,and not stop to go though the parameters on the control panel.Way faster even if you stop.But for the price it's worth it.Sometimes the simpler way is the best way.It's like they are trying to invent the wheel all over again.
It kind of disappoints me to read that you aren't liking the MM 210. On my machine with an .035 wire and C-25 the door chart is pretty close (in my opinion)for flat and horizontal fillets on 3/16" mild steel. The arc on 3/16" with my machine is an incredibly smooth short circuit transfer, and the puddle is nice and wet. What brand of wire are they running on the machine you tested? I ve always ran nothing but Hobart wire on mine. Also, with an .035 wire the arc suffers alot if I weld hot rolled steel without removing the millscale. It is like Im welding with a totally different machine. I wonder what the input voltage is at the store. Mine here at home is right at about 240 volts. I ve never used the machine anywhere else to know how the arc is at a lower input voltage.
Realistically, I would be disappointed with the Lincoln Sp 175 if it weren t able to produce a more perfect short circuit transfer arc then the MM210. After all you have more control over the voltage setting with your infinate voltage control then a tapped voltage selection machine. However, I still am very impressed with the short circuit transfer arc on my MM 210, and lets not forget the spray transfer arc too.
Now, you have me really wanting to drive up to Portland to check this machine out for myself and see how it compares to mine, because mine doesn t perform the way you are stated the on you tested does.
By the way whats the deal with the Ironman 210? I was expecting it to possibly be similar to the MM 185. Must not be though based on your post that I read on the site that you moderate.
I'm not the expert that Dan is but i do own both(sp175+210) and with c25 and .035 wire depending on joint fit up and position either 3/42 or 4/48 make really sweet welds,and those are both "factory" settings,i rarely adjust that.
I loved my sp175 but arc for arc,bead for bead it can't compare with my 210.
Arc Burn,when running .030 wire,and my X- sp 175 plus machine it can compare to any out there.I just don't think the sp could run .035 solid wire very well only in a limited range.It's just not the Machine for that.
Dan,the 185 that I had pretty much welded like the little Lincoln.That's after I adapted the little Lincoln gun to it.That was only with .030 wire though.It was a outstanding arc.It had a very wide sweet spot,and was very easy to dial in with the taps. It was a way better mig machine than any of the machines I welded with yesterday.That's what I was expecting out of the 210.The 240 power is very good there,but I didn't measure it.They could run huge tigs if you wanted.I did jump the Miller rep,and told him the 135 Hobart runs like it had low voltage.They had another one setup inside without a cord,and I watched it being used,and it seemed much better. He had a long cord on it,but he says all the little migs run like that.Some of these guys just don't understand how important good power is to a little machine!I will check the wire brand,but the ones I looked at had Hobart.I kind of thought the 175 Hobart ran better then the 210 Hobart,but then again the 175 had .030,and the 210 Hobart had .035 wire.Dan,it had the very fine mill scale on it in fact I cut all the metal up on my metal muncher.I told my friend that runs the welding store about the mill scale,and he said you got to be kidding.I will clean some up when I go in today.I am kind of thinking those Tregaskis guns kind of suck.I changed mine out on my inverter with a brand new 350 amp Benard Q gun,and the arc is much better.I picked up two new Q guns for $60.00 each. It had a very good arc before,but now it's super nice.You just have to weld with a quality inverter machine to understand how nice that is.If you remember what Mike Sherman says is his favorite machine is out of the twenty he owns,It's the XMT 304 dc/cc machine.I understand that perfectly.Dan,it probably a little of everything that's stacked against the 210.It has took me a while to get my Inverter up to where it is now.I kind of forgot how nice it welded with the Ln9,and the Benard gun I had on it.Now it's better than ever.I also changed to 84/16 gas,and it seems to help the arc a some also.It still sprays at 26 volts with .035 wire.Might even go a little bit lower.not much though.
Well,not starting a pissing match here but like i said i own both,not just used but own,all i ever used in the 175 was .030 and while it was a good machine it still does not compare to the 210.Keep in mind i own 4 red machines and was always a bit biased for them,untill,the 210.
These are merely my findings,there's probably a few variables that change things.I love my red machines but there's just something about this **** blue thing
Originally posted by Arc Burn Well,not starting a pissing match here but like i said i own both,not just used but own,all i ever used in the 175 was .030 and while it was a good machine it still does not compare to the 210.Keep in mind i own 4 red machines and was always a bit biased for them,untill,the 210.
These are merely my findings,there's probably a few variables that change things.I love my red machines but there's just something about this **** blue thing
Arc Burn, I am a Miller fan from the get go, but I think welders are like guns; no two are exactly alike. If that wasn't the case, we would have at least one liar per comparison.
ArcBurn,the 175 use to to be mine.so I know that machine.It can weld over dirty metal better then the 210.I went,and welded with it again,and the 210 worked much better,and had a very good arc.As long as you are happy thats fine.My friend at the welding store has welded with them all,and he thinks the Lincoln is less affected by travel speed,and dirty metal.By the way he picked up welding with the 210 right away,and said it a nice arc.Both my MK,and the power 300 is way more forgiving then the 210.It's so different then mine it's was hard to get use to it.I also had a nice lesson from one of the Airgas top tech guys that sets up all the machines for factory type welding.He thinks the same thing.I am not standing alone in my view.He helped me get the 210,and the Hobart 210 welding right.By the way Dan, the 210 Hobart really does run nice when you use it a while.It's just for the little bit extra the Miller really has much better features.It's probably a good rig for auto body work if you don't plan on a spoolgun setup.It also had .035 wire so I couldn't really tell how it compares to the 185.probably pretty well.
I hear ya,like i said,just my observations from owning both.My sp175 made me alot of money,in fact it easily paid for itself the first week i bought it so i'll be hangin on to that one for sentimental reasons
We replied at the same time It's funny you mention dirty steel because i noticed that very thing just this morning and the 175 was more foregiving.
It's funny how things vary from coast to coast,my dealer has also used them all but confirmed just the opposite of your guy!It's all about what works for any given situation.I do like both machines but if i could only have one........
Originally posted by Scott V ArcBurn,the 175 use to to be mine.so I know that machine.It can weld over dirty metal better then the 210.I went,and welded with it again,and the 210 worked much better,and had a very good arc.As long as you are happy thats fine.My friend at the welding store has welded with them all,and he thinks the Lincoln is less affected by travel speed,and dirty metal.By the way he picked up welding with the 210 right away,and said it a nice arc.Both my MK,and the power 300 is way more forgiving then the 210.It's so different then mine it's was hard to get use to it.I also had a nice lesson from one of the Airgas top tech guys that sets up all the machines for factory type welding.He thinks the same thing.I am not standing alone in my view.He helped me get the 210,and the Hobart 210 welding right.By the way Dan, the 210 Hobart really does run nice when you use it a while.It's just for the little bit extra the Miller really has much better features.It's probably a good rig for auto body work if you don't plan on a spoolgun setup.It also had .035 wire so I couldn't really tell how it compares to the 185.probably pretty well.
Scott
Glad to here that your opinion has changed after a second try. I almost though I was going to have to drive my MM 210 up to Portland and have you try it. The arc quality of the machine definately suffers with an .035 wire when welding over millscale. I founfd this out when I test drove the MM 251. The welding store supplied hot rolled 1/4" that had a heavy millscale . The MM 251 had an .035 wire on it and the arc was nice and crisp. The final weld was spatter free. After this I brought this material home and tried my MM 210 on it with an .035 wire. The arc quality was no were near what I was use to. I changed the wire to an .030 an the arc quality returned.
I agree with you on The MM 210 over the Ironman 210. For one the output voltage on the Ironman 210 is to low to spray with an .030 or .035 wire. Then the Miller give you twice the duty cycle at the top end. The Miller also has a better drive roll assembly. Of course ther is more reasons then this.
Does the Ironman 210 still come with the M-10 gun or have they finally switched it to an M-15?
Did you put any more time in on the 135 or 175. I need to log some more time in on my HH 135 with solid wire. I ve only used it for about a 1/2 hour with an .023 wire so far and wasn t pleased with the results. The HH 125 that I tested did a much better job, however, in all fairness i did log quite bit more time in on the HH 125 then I have currently on the HH 135. fluxcore wire so far is were my HH 135 shines.
Dan,I didn't really check the gun on the Hobart 210.I was kind of paying more attention to the settings,and how it welded.I thought the Miller 210 might be better with .030 in that case.I think I was the only one that had a real problem welding with the Miller 210.Everybody else moved really quick,and had more gun angle than I am use to.I did watch one guy that worked there weld first on the Hobart 135 with some .023 wire on 16 ga.The bead he got on that machine looked better than the 210 Miller,and the Hobart 210.The little Hobart although a little cold just was cleaner.The Hobart was on a long cord so that was not real fair to that machine.He tried a few times with both the 210 machines,and was saying I can get the 210s to weld better with a setting change.He really never did better that the first bead with the 135.I had to keep showing him that weld bead.They all had different wire so it was not a real fair test,but that's what they had in them.All those Machines you can do a good job if you owned then,but you just got to know the little details on what they like.I spent alot of time getting my my Mk 2000a,and Hobart feeder welding right,and almost none with the Lincolns.Except when I was trying to push .023 wire though the big gun.My Easb would do it fine with a 15 ft gun,and the Lincoln was horrible.If you welded only with .035 wire in the Lincoln 300 it is just plug,and play.That's not always true either,because there is a guy on this board That hates his powermig 300,and went out,and bought a Miller 251 that he really likes much better.Nothing is cast in stone.So When I say a machine welds like crap it only means that machine with me using it,and sometimes other people that welded with the same machine also.I am finding though all my testing that the gun,and liners seem to make the biggest difference than anything.I think no matter what anybody thinks Miller should drop the Tregaskis,and put Benards,or something as good.That goes for Esab also.The Lincolns with there Tweeco liners,and tips are fine.That was the thing that just really dialed the arc in on my MK.My almost new,with new liners,and tips,Esab Gunmaster(M-25) cannot even compete with the Benard in the way the arc works! I don't know what happened to the real Hobart gun they use to put on my old xp130,but if I owned Miller,and Hobart I put that gun on the small machines,and fire the bean-counter that came up with the Tregaskis setup!
Scott, the manufacture of the peacemaker mig gun used by old Hobart MIG welders is OXO now owned by ITW parent Corp of MILLER/HOBART welding equipment.
My guess is Miller has long term contract for guns they are now using.
Miller lists lots of different guns and parts, including bernards, roughnecks, and peacmakers in their welding parts guide. Local miller dealer should have copy. It also lists MIG gun history for old Miller and Hobart welders, what was original and suggested replacment guns.
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because mine doesn t perform the way you are stated the on you tested does.
or have they finally switched it to an M-15?
I don't know what happened to the real Hobart gun they use to put on my old xp130,but if I owned Miller,and Hobart I put that gun on the small machines,and fire the bean-counter that came up with the Tregaskis setup!
