Input and Output???

[dmend]

I'm looking for a mig machine in the 210 class range. Miller, lincoln, and Hobart manuals show 230v and 200v inputs. When hooked up to 200v input will the machine automatically draw up to 220v (US wiring standard) as demand requires or does it only draw 200v? If it only draws 200v won't that greatly reduce the top end functionality of the welders even it you turn up the settings? I have 5/16" MS to weld and want to do it w/ co2.

Thanks,
dmend

[MAC702]

Actually, typical US house voltage is 240V, not 220V. Use the 230V input and it works just fine.

Your exact input voltage will slightly affect the settings you will need, but the machine will handle it as designed.

It's a great machine; you will not be disappointed.

If you were using it on a 208V leg of a 3-phase system, you would wire it for 200V input.

[Sparkeee24]

Howdy Howdy! When comparing transformer based machines, generally, you would nead to purchase a machine with the specific voltage input you intend to use. If you were to have a 200 volt input machine, then you would nead to feed the transformer with more amps, and larger wire, and circuit. Power in, is WATTS, amps X volts. Power out is the same. WATTS. amps X volts . Now, you add in power factor correction. figure a transformer based machine is about 70-80%. so, you go amps in, X volts in, times .75 = power out in watts. This is how you figure in Vs. out. You should order a machine in the voltage you will use it at. Inverters are completely different. They can run up to 90% efficientcy, and many of them can run on near any voltage from 200-480 without ordering a different machine. I would look into the Miller Matic 210. It is a fantastic machine. Everybody raves about them. They are figured out, and all the settings for specific conditions have been tested bye owners on this board. The support for that machine is sooo good, that it is highly recomended in the size range your speeking about. Brian Lee Sparkeee27

[hankj]

The input voltage is selectable by the voltage link. If you have 230V available, set the link to the 230V position. If you are running from a single phase of a 3-phase service, set the link to 200V (208V actual input). Either way, the welder will deliver full output. On 200V it will draw 31 amps; on 230V it will draw 27 amps.

Connecting the welder to 230V with the link set at 200V may damage the machine.

Hank

[dmend]

Thanks for the FAST responce to my question.

Another question... I believe the Hobart gun is rated at 100amps and the Miller is rated at 250amps. How does this influence welding performance?

Thanks,
dmend

[storts]

The input voltage is selectable by the voltage link. If you have 230V available, set the link to the 230V position. If you are running from a single phase of a 3-phase service, set the link to 200V (208V actual input). Either way, the welder will deliver full output. On 200V it will draw 31 amps; on 230V it will draw 27 amps.

Connecting the welder to 230V with the link set at 200V may damage the machine.

Hank

Is 220 just a saying,,as all homes have 240(well not all,but you know what i mean)...But im not that old 51 yet,,but as far back as i can remember playing with electricty,,it was allways i need a 220 outlet for a big window ac installed,,,,Thanks Guys!!!!!!!,Jack

[dda52]

Actual performance will be the same. Where it will differ is duty cycle. You will have to stop welding more with the Hobart gun to let it cool down.

The IM-210 is a good machine, I'm sure, but it is a little below the MM and PM. I would stick to one of those two, My actual preference is the MM210. I have one and love it.

[MAC702]

Is 220 just a saying,,as all homes have 240(well not all,but you know what i mean)...But im not that old 51 yet,,but as far back as i can remember playing with electricty,,it was allways i need a 220 outlet for a big window ac installed,,,,Thanks Guys!!!!!!!,Jack

I'm too young to know the answer to that one, too. I'm only really familiar with modern electrical systems on the West Coast, and in Colombia, and New York City, the three places where I've worked in the trade. It's always been 240V as nominal. But yeah, LOTS of non-electricians here say "110" and "220," so somewhere, sometime, that must have been normal and the non-tradesmen haven't had their clocks reset.

[Sberry]

I dont recall when the change took place from 220 to 240, I have read the history but cant remember it. I think someone did a thread on one of the electric formum a while back with all the details. Yes, Jack, we are on a 120/240 system. 220 is slang.

[storts]

Thanks Guys,,,Mac im only 1.5 hrs to NY City,,,So Its everyware,,and if you go the the orange store,,there help probably did not go to school,,,but ive seen them ask a cust,,,you looking for 110 or 220???????Thanks again,,,I feel young now!!!!!

[Sandy]

Here's a little excerpt:

"History of Voltage Standards"

"In the 1950's state PUCs, utilities, and infrastructure providers struggled to define “quality” service delivery. Collectively they determined that one of the best measurements of reliability was delivered “voltage” at the point of consumption. In 1954 the industry agreed to combine standards from the Edison Electric Institute (EEI) and National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA) to create ANSI standard C84.1 “A”. This established nominal voltage ratings for utilities to regulate the service delivery and established permissible operating tolerances at the point of use within the range of 120 volts plus / minus 5% (or 114v – 126v)."


Please keep in mind that often utility companies will/must run high and hot so that a customer at the very end of the lead will receive his or her minimum of 114 volts. Also keep in mind that standarization in matters like this doesn't happen overnight. And not to be a smart axx or anything but a quick change over from a "110 volt" system to a "120 volt" system could easily be 50 to 60 years or even more as we are talking about millions of miles of utility lines, billions in utility equipment, and probably billions in manufacturing and industrial equipment.

[hankj]

If memory serves (not the Vodka-clouded type) the numbers first appeared as standards of the REA back in the day. 110/220/440, etc. were common terms. Then came things like "115V" and "117V" labels on appliances 'n stuff to make things more confusing. With the absorbtion of the REA into the Rural Utilites Service in 1994, the transmission standard became 120/240 ±5%, so it is pretty recent.

When I started out, it was all "110" and "220", even though the measured voltages could be anywhere around those numbers, depending on where in the country you were located.

It's much more fun to confuse people with phase-to-phase and phase-to-ground numbers in the various poly-phase systems, dontcha think?

Hank

[storts]

If memory serves (not the Vodka-clouded type) the numbers first appeared as standards of the REA back in the day. 110/220/440, etc. were common terms. Then came things like "115V" and "117V" labels on appliances 'n stuff to make things more confusing. With the absorbtion of the REA into the Rural Utilites Service in 1994, the transmission standard became 120/240 ±5%, so it is pretty recent.

When I started out, it was all "110" and "220", even though the measured voltages could be anywhere around those numbers, depending on where in the country you were located.

It's much more fun to confuse people with phase-to-phase and phase-to-ground numbers in the various poly-phase systems, dontcha think?

Hank

Hi Pal!!!!!! well that 1954 was a good year,,,,but i was born in July of 54,,,so i could not read than,or type,,,51 years later,,,i can read,,,Now the typing is not even a tosss up ,,,,The night class starts again next month,,,,So Im going back for classss # 3,,,,Never got held back in high school,or jr. collage,,,and they gave me a pilots lincence,,,FCC classs3 with element 9,,Pistol Permit, Cdl class a,Home inspection lincence,Couple of other pcs of paper,,,certifided pipe,and bridge work,But Still Cant type or spellll,worth a beans,,,Maybe the 3rd time willl be the winner,,,I just get to the turning point,,,and 3 months off,,,,,I should of beeen a teacher,,,I give them Credit,,Not like when i was in high scoool,,,,we didnt have guns,ganges,,,drugs,,well we had the "hippies,Jocks,And gear heads,,,,

Thanks for the clasfication,,,and have one or 2 for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,,,,Jack

[uncrichie]

I have some electronic equipment that has vacuum tubes in it that was manufactured in the early 70's. The rear of the chassis is marked 110AC. I have had to modify the input of the tubes filament transformer with a resistor to drop the voltage back to 6.3 volts from just over 7 volts when used in a 120v circuit.

So it wasn't all that long ago that some electronic equipment was still manufactured under the old standard. Uncrichie...

[storts]

I have some electronic equipment that has vacuum tubes in it that was manufactured in the early 70's. The rear of the chassis is marked 110AC. I have had to modify the input of the tubes filament transformer with a resistor to drop the voltage back to 6.3 volts from just over 7 volts when used in a 120v circuit.

So it wasn't all that long ago that some electronic equipment was still manufactured under the old standard. Uncrichie...

Thanks,,Every day i learn some thing new,,,when doing the home inspection thing,I have a little grounding thing to stick in every out let,,,and i allways request that the owner,and buyer be there ,if possible during the inspection,,so if they have any questions,,whin reason,,the code of ethics are so strick,,,they all,say,,when they see the lights on the tester,,,do i have a full 110,,,,,,?????????im looking for properly grounded,,,the tester tells you 120,or 240, but,,everyone thinks it,,,Jack