we,re friends, let,s help one another

[toolaholic]

most of us are small time welders trying to surive! we are spread out all over the map. we are not competing with one another for work. we are a family helping one another each day. ok this is an idea i suggest.
when possible, and if you care to, list approx work hours, material cost, and selling price on projects. now many won,t feel comfortable with this and that,s ok
the ones that ,do myself included,will learn and prosper! this group has so much skill and knowlege it,s a shame to see some young person starting out-stricking out! i charge $70 per hr and mark up all materials 20per cent. and that's too cheap for s.f. area. also if you list your area that would help. cost of living varies

what do you think? be well kevin

[metals406]

most of us are small time welders trying to surive! we are spread out all over the map. we are not competing with one another for work. we are a family helping one another each day. ok this is an idea i suggest.
when possible, and if you care to, list approx work hours, material cost, and selling price on projects. now many won,t feel comfortable with this and that,s ok
the ones that ,do myself included,will learn and prosper! this group has so much skill and knowlege it,s a shame to see some young person starting out-stricking out! i charge $70 per hr and mark up all materials 20per cent. and that's too cheap for s.f. area. also if you list your area that would help. cost of living varies

what do you think? be well kevin

GOOD IDEA TOOLAHOLIC! I have done the same with some fab shops locally. Some I have approached were real ****-heads, others are happy working WITH another shop, instead of AGAINST another shop. If I have a job I feel I can't do as well as the other guys, or it's too big for little 'ol me, or if they are swamped, we refere each other business. It is a perfect working relationship. The Jack-*ss that came up with the idea of cut-throat competition, has definitely ruined the world of business. Like the old saying goes, 'can't we all just get along?' Anyway, I noticed you said you "Mark-up" 20%. I have just recently learned I was doing mark-up wrong. So let me ask you this, If materials cost $100.00, how much would you charge with a 20% mark-up?

Nate

[toolaholic]

i,m a fair welder and terrible buss. man $120 and i know i,ll get spanked,'. but i,m sure we,re doing to learn something!

[HPRookie]

That's the correct way to do "Mark-Up"

vs.

Margin a 20% Margin would be $100 Cost and Sell for $125 ($25 is 20% of the total.)

a 25% markup is always = 20% Margin
a 40% markup is always = 28.6% margin
a 50% markup is always = 33% margin
etc...

20% sure doesn't seem like enough markup. Especially if you are picking up or handling before it reaches the worksite.

[AZCoyote]

Most of my clients will not accept a per hour rate. They need to know how much a job costs before it starts. That puts it all on me to estimate the amount of work involved. Sometimes I make out, sometimes I shoot my toes off. But, I almost always get repeat business. So If I underbid a job, I make it up elswhere.

So I bid differently now. I have been quoting off material costs. That I can estimate very well. I have always required a 50% deposit before any work starts. I make my material costs no more that 10% of my deposit. For example, right now I building a large outdoor privacy screen. I have $125.00 in materials, so my deposit was $1250, total invoice $2500. This might not be the best way, but its works for me for now.

You have to compare apples to apples though. My work is all hand forged solid iron and is very labor intensive.

[toolaholic]

you're kindness is already helping this old man and others!

[theonlybull]

right now, we're charging $50/hour for shop rate, if we have to used the truck for onsite work, it's $60/hour. same for transporting equipment with our 5th wheel.( canadian dollars)

as for material we try and keep a 30% markup on big jobs, maybe a little more on special orders, and for small lots. if we have to cut stock, we'll do the first couple for free, after that it's shop rate.

we get along fine with all but one shop in the area ( the same shop my grandfather was forman at for 30 years) everyone else specializes in certain areas. like one shop we use all the time, has a nice new 10' shear, and 40 brake. for what he charges us, anything using 3/16" or smaller plate requiring a couple cuts per sheet, it works out cheaper in the long run...

we just finished a job that lasted a little over 6 weeks, and required alot of special order stainless, and out of town machining. i belive that job totaled out around $34,000.00 CAD.
and they take 30-60 days to pay.

[toolaholic]

i,m in the home repair buss. with a little welding here and there.

i just ordered patio doors and plate glass from a very successful glass shop.

we,ve been friends for years. i shared with him i was marking up my cont. discounted glass from him 20 percent. he smiled and told me i should me marking up my materials 35-40 percent. never too old to learn! next week it,s 35percent

again one and all thank,s for sharing. this is a great supportive family

[MadMax]

Well, I am not a shop, nor am I as great fabricator as I am young..But if I do somehting for someone, and its not a favor, I charge them $20 an hour, be it fabrication or mechanical work (dirtbikes etc.). For this job at the Country Club working on the diving boards, I am charging $60 an hour. Mainly because I can, and I am taking all my equipment up there. It includes cutting off tube that is rusted through, taking the actual board stands off, grinding all the pant and rust off, welding on a new tube, patching any holes, and painting the boards. It'll be me and a friend doing the work, and shouldnt take any more then a couple hours. Thats for everything minus the metal. I think thats about fair is it not? It's my first relativly large job, so if I am overcharging, please let me know. Now, looking at jobs I have done, this one will be cake, so thats why I am thinking its the right price.

-Max.

[toolaholic]

max, please do this. use a note book for this and future projects. put down jobs, dates, material costs. time estimated to do the project, ect.

when complete enter the time taken, and all expences. great learning tool for future jobs. maybe you,ll share this with us!

now max you.re learning and this is ok, but

there is no such thing as a 2 hr job! diddin,t you spend time visiting the site?, travel, material pickup and equept. setup. charge seperately next time for friend
and make a little money on him! a 4hr min charge is fair. good luck and please share with us

[Bob S2]

Just a quick piece of advice on those diving boards. I used to work maintenance at a big olympic-size pool and after work was done we started having dving board bolts snap. The two big end bolts that hold the end of the board. We got replacements, and they continued to snap. Finally we got other bolts from a different source and they stopped snapping. As it turns out, these bolts take a lot of flex and evidently the crew doing the work on the boards 'upgraded' to grade 5 bolts from the local hardware store. These bolts they used couldn't handle the bending forces. Grade five bolts are stronger in shear but stretch less than lower grade bolts. In the end-bolts for diving boards, you have minimal shear and LOTS of flex. I'd contact a few diving board places and find out if you can order bolts from them. Once we had both bolts break at the same time, the board went rocketing into the pool missing the unlucky person who was on the board by milimeters. This is a place of extremely high liability, watch yourself and make sure you have proper insurance coverage. A railing is one thing, messing with the board bolts is another. Hope this helps!

[Bob S2]

Check out this website. They call these bolts 'duraflex'. Might be a great site for all your needs for this project.
http://www.springboardsandmore.com/d...nuts_bolts.asp

[metals406]

That's the correct way to do "Mark-Up"

vs.

Margin a 20% Margin would be $100 Cost and Sell for $125 ($25 is 20% of the total.)

a 25% markup is always = 20% Margin
a 40% markup is always = 28.6% margin
a 50% markup is always = 33% margin
etc...

20% sure doesn't seem like enough markup. Especially if you are picking up or handling before it reaches the worksite.

You get 4 gold stars! I have always done like A LOT of businesses around here and just added 20% to material cost, ie: $100.00 = $120.00. It took a good friend who owns an Auto Electric shop, to show me the error of my ways. He said he used to "Mark-Up" the same way, until his battery supplier showed him the right way 6 years ago. If you just add 20%, your not making 20%. He showed me like this. Example: Take the desired mark-up, say 35%, and tack it on $100.00's worth of materials-- 100% minus 35% = 65%. Now you take $100.00 divided by .65 and you get $153.85. You would lose $18.85! Obviously, the larger the material cost, the larger the loss. I was told that some Texas Instrument calculators have a mark-up function built in. A good investment if you want to figure it out quick and easy. Apparently college is worth something HPRookie may have a better way to figure it out, so we'll see if he posts something.

[MadMax]

max, please do this. use a note book for this and future projects. put down jobs, dates, material costs. time estimated to do the project, ect.

when complete enter the time taken, and all expences. great learning tool for future jobs. maybe you,ll share this with us!

now max you.re learning and this is ok, but

there is no such thing as a 2 hr job! diddin,t you spend time visiting the site?, travel, material pickup and equept. setup. charge seperately next time for friend
and make a little money on him! a 4hr min charge is fair. good luck and please share with us

Ahh very very good Idea. I'll definitly go pick up a note book and do that. And yes, I visisted the sight and found out what was wrong. They werent painted in years, so they have rusted through in some spots. It's just a lot of grinding, small amount of welding, and of course removal etc. My guess for time, is around 5 hours all together. And the friend isnt getting paid, and technically, I am not either. Since it's not really income, it will just go right back in the the workshop. I'm young enough where the only bills I have is the dirtbike payments . I think with the money I will get, I'm gunna pick up a nice floor drill press, and some more hand tools.

-Max.

[IRON TO ART]

The calculator to buy is called a profit manager. I'm on my second one at work and I love it. I beleive it is from Texas Instruments. Lets you do markup, discounts and if you know the cost and the sell price it instantly tells you what the gross profit is. After five or six years using this I wouldn't want to be without it.