STILL TIG filler problems

**gde** · 01-19-2005, 06:46 PM

Well, after going through the motions up at the shop this past weekend with my Synchro180 using er70s 2 and 6, I came to the conclusion that I am either cursed or that all the filler I bought from weldingsupply.com was bad

I cleaned it with acetone and proceded to weld some mild steel. Sparklers everywhere. Little volcanos constantly. Whipped out some 309stainless rod and poof, no problems at all. Nice, smooth beads. I didn't have any problems with the SS filler rod. I'm kinda pissed about the whole deal actually. I have about 20lbs of mild steel filler rod that's gonna get wasted. Any other suggestions before it gets recycled

**ptig185** · 01-19-2005, 08:03 PM

Hey, thanks for the helpI I think my last couple welds are just what you've been describing.
I think I may have gotten some oils or chain lube, or stp tranny fluid on this rod when
I was cleaning the welding table...Guess that was a bad idea to leave my latest rod on the table at the time. Had valcanoes errupting constantly!

**seanol** · 01-19-2005, 11:07 PM

I have had similar problems, but I can get a good weld in some spots and then bam it explodes. I thought it was air trapped in the tubular structure blowing out so I drilled a hole to let expanding air out, nothing. I have cleaned everything. I tried a different filler size. I even bought a cable cover on the off chance that I was pinching the argon line. I was able to mig weld with no problem so I don't think the joint or material are the problem.
I am using a Lincoln Synchrowave 300, DCEN, 20 cfm argon, 3/32 thoriated, 1/16 and 3/32 m.s. rod, 80 to 90 amps, #5 cup on a 200 amp #17 weldtec aircooled torch. I am welding .095 mild steel tubing, round to rectangular tubing.

Let me know what you find out,

Sean

**Mike W** · 01-20-2005, 03:03 AM

Hmmmmn......I once used some oxy/act bare rod that had some rust on it doing tig. I saw some sparklers but it welded ok. Something strange going on with you guys.

**Roger** · 01-20-2005, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mike W

Hmmmmn......I once used some oxy/act bare rod that had some rust on it doing tig. I saw some sparklers but it welded ok. Something strange going on with you guys.

Should not use O/A rod for TIG welding but MIG wire is ok.

**gde** · 01-20-2005, 07:25 AM

I am at a total loss. I don't know what the heck is wrong. Like I said, the SS rod works great EVERYTIME.

**enlpck** · 01-20-2005, 08:42 AM

This is... perplexing. If both the -2 and the -6 give the same result, it would be somewhat surprising if it is the filler, but it could happen. I'll assume you did double check the flags on the rods and you a) got the correct material, and b) tried both types, and you reported that you cleaned the filler. Did you recently change the gas bottle (it is straight argon, yes?) or break the lines anywhere? Did you clean the filler with a quick steel wool wipe before the acetone, to catch any rust hidden by the copper flash?

The next thing I would do is start at the beginning. Fresh tungsten and, if possible, collet and cup, all features of the machine off, DC-, check the gasflow, check all connections, check for air leaks, purge the lines and on clean, fresh ground metal of known weldability (the stainless is much more tolerant of oddball metals than the 70-2 or -6. You SURE the metal you were welding can't be the culperate?), drag a puddle without filler. Then, try dipping the stainless filler. Then try the -2. Then try the -6. Nice and systematic.

If you get the same results, I'd next try a different lot of filler, maybe cut of a hunk from a MIG spool, to be sure. Bad filler isn't common, and in two different grades (therefore two different lots) is real odd.

**gde** · 01-20-2005, 10:15 AM

I'll go back and check the flag on the rod again and report back here with the specific numers. I thought this was all too strange since the fillere are different lots. Enlpck, I have done everything you stated above except the steel wool part. I used acetone and I KNOW FOR A 100% FACT THAT THE BASE METAL IS WELDABLE AS I USE IT EVERYDAY TO BUILD BUMPERS. It has got to be something with the filler, I am convinced of it.

**FM117** · 01-20-2005, 11:04 AM

GDE

What kind of puddle do you get with no rod at all?

Dave P.

**gde** · 01-20-2005, 12:19 PM

Perfect puddle! Same with when I use the SS filler.

**FM117** · 01-20-2005, 03:25 PM

Go buy or steal a bit of filler from someplace else. If you have some mig
wire around, try it. If you are getting a good weld pool without filler and
everything goes bad when you introduce the rod then it has to be a bad
rod or some weird base metal that is reacting with the rod.
You may just want to go purchase a small piece of steel somewhere
to have something different to test on. Do you know what alloy you
are trying to weld on.....1018.....1020...mystery recycled boat hull...???
Dave P.

**seanol** · 01-20-2005, 10:42 PM

I believe in my haste at setting up my tubing structure I got sidetracked. I think what happened in my case was that I did not clean the tubing after the cut. The oily coating on the tubing was hard to see but I did not wipe it down like the rectangular tubing. All rectangular joints welded fine, the tubular joints were the problem.

Can you use SS filler on mild steel? Is there any drawback i.e. strength, ductility or fatigue property change?

Thanks again for the help,

Sean

**gde** · 01-21-2005, 06:06 AM

When it is not a "critical" application, SS filler is fine. It tends to be a little more brittle because of the granular structure of the metal versus mild steel. I have a friend that owns a hot-rod shop and all he uses is SS rod.
Asfar as dirty metal being the culprit...NO WAY. ****tin' steel was ground clean until it was shiny and then wiped down repeatedly with acetone.
This weekend I will go up to the shop and double check the flag on the rod for specific numbers again.

**enlpck** · 01-21-2005, 11:28 AM

No offense meant by going over the obvious

As for the flags, I have been given the wrong rod in a container before, so I learned ALWAYS check.

Another thought came to mind (which the steel wool would cover): there are glues that with a low solubility in acetone. Some of the hot-melts used for box sealing, and some two part types, come to mind. If a film got deposited on the rods, say from hot storage conditions, it might not be visible, and not come off with a quick wipe. That would explain two different grades exhibiting the same behavior.

**gde** · 01-21-2005, 12:51 PM

Hmmmm, now I am wishing I had the stuff right in front of me so I could check it. First thing Saturday morning, I'll look again! Thanks for all the help to this point!