question for Dan or Scott V or both

[chub380]

Hi Dan, when you got your mm210 did you look at any other migs before buying that one? Would you compare your 210 to the mm vintage[arc quality] I Know Scott swears by the 175sp plus Iam looking to downsize my Mig machine and was wandering what you guys on here have to say. I currently have a mm250 with top amps at 300. I have never used this machine even close to its potential so I want to sell it and get something smaller. 80% of the welding I do is tig so I want to also make some room for my new tig. Plus I do like the portability of the smaller 175amp migs. I know you said before that your 210 has much better arc than my 250x. So I was thinking mabie a210 or a 175plus any info would be appreciated. Also I just used my mm250x for the first time in awhile yesterday and it seems to throw splatter all over the floor I think I am setting the machine up right Perhaps I am to used to tig or something else is wrong. This is how it is set up I am doing 1/4 angle 21v 280 wirespeed c25 gas 22cf 70s6 solid wire about 45deg metal ground to shine with bevels at all joints. The welds look fine but it looks like a fireworks dislplay around my welding table. Fact is after about 75 1 1/2 inch weld joints and 10 2 1/2 weld joints for the tubing there was probubly a dixie cup full of welding trash to sweep of the floor. Thanks for any help in both these items.Thanks Chub380:(

[Scott V]

Chub380,
I don't think the splatter is something to worry about if it is not sticking to the work piece.The mm210 is about the same size as what you have now.A few pounds lighter though.You didn't say what size wire,did you?

I just love my lincoln,but Dan loves his mm210,He welds thicker type metal with his,and I weld thinner type metal.I never used a 210 so I can't comment on how it welds,but i have a hunch it's probally their best short arc machine.No real proof to back that up.I do think the sp175 plus is the best welding short arc lincoln machine.thats with .023/.030 wire.I swear my 175 plus welds as nice on mild steel as my Mk 2000A pulse mig with my LN9 gma setup.I can adjust the arc to match the lincoln,but not really make it any better.In other material the the Mk 2000A will weld better.Like aluminum,stainless steel,and for spray arc.Which is out of the range of the 175,except for with .023 wire.Up to 0.250 it's great.You need to weld with both if posible.

[chub380]

Thanks for the reply I am using .035 wire. The splatter isnt sticking to the work but the floor and my helmet look like they have been thru a war. I notice that it pops alot when I start someone told me to snip the wire off flush each time i finish a weld. Does that sound correct? I think I should be able to sell this welder it is still on its first roll of wire and first bottle of gas. It looks brand new. Would changing wire size help? If I can get the sparks under control I may keep it. If not I am going to try a couple different machines and compare the arc. I have used one where I was working a JJ mereck It was a mm210 seemed nice They have two one for s/s one for mild steel/spoolgun for alum. Some kid was using the spoolgun for alum didnt look like he did that before. The one for s/s didnt work to good I think they got the wrong gas. But on mild steel what I was doing seemed real good. What about the powermigs? 200/255 Thanks Chub380

[cope]

Not having used any of the above mentioned welders, I have a hunch that the Vintage may be a sleeper. Miller apparently has discontinued it though. It is a 250 amp I believe but it uses tap rather than infinite voltage control.

[Roger]

WHAT, YOU WANT TO DOWN SIZE.
BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER
HUGE IS BEST

:D

[cope]

Roger, that's true, but if he decides to keepo the 250 and buy a smaller machine, then that's normal procedure.

[chub380]

Thanks for the response yes I have actually preped all joints with a grinder got down to bare metal 3/4 of an inch from the joint and put a slight bevel on all joints. Like I said I dont mig much but I dont remember it splattering so much all over the floor. I also dont remember it poping so much I thought the tip may be keeping the wire from moving so I changed that I also try to stay pretty close to the inside covers settings. Is 20cfh for the gas enough? I am working in a garage with no drafts. The only thing I can think of is if the wire or gas is to old both about 3 years or so. The welds themselves are good but the splatter on the floor is amazing. Perhaps I am just to used to tig. Thanks for all the help keep it coming Chub380 Ps I think it is airco wire 70s6

[cope]

I would go up on the C-25 to 25scfh, but I don't think your gas went bad, there is aome other explanation.

[Arbo]

Chub,

Just curious...What part of PA?

[ZACHV]

Chub, I will trade 'ya a near new Lincoln SP175 Plus even up?? And drive to whatever part of PA your in to deliver it. :D

My Sp175 has done everything this novice weldor has needed it for. I do light fabrication and have not worked on anything bigger than 3/8". Great machine, but I think I would upgrade to a MM210 given the chance.

[dseman]

chub,

If I review the owner's manual for this machine, with the accompanying table, I see that for 1/4" stock, C25gas, 0.035dia, the miller recommendation is to run 19volts, and 320 for the wire-speed.

Could it be that the excessive spatter you are encountering is due to the voltage being a little on the high side?

Miller recommends running 21.5volts, and 290 wirespeed if you are running 100% CO2. For C25 the voltage comes down a bit and the wirespeed goes up a bit.

just trying to help,
-dseman

[dseman]

chub,
sorry about that last note, I had the wrong manual. The 250X indicates 20V,
260wire. So, maybe try dropping the voltage a bit. Also, as others have mentioned: try a shorter stickout,clean metal, good gas quality, and clean dry wire.

good luck,
-dseman

[chub380]

Thanks for all the help I think I get some new wire and try that. Like I said the welds look good its just all that splatter that goes on the floor,It does look like some slight rust on the wire so I try that. The bottle of gas still has 1200psi in it. It was about40 deg when I was welding and I had a bullet heater in the garage so it had to be at least 55 in there. I also let the panel open for awile on the welder before i started to warm the wire. I live out in the country sort of between Lancaster and Harrisburg.[That is for Arbo] Thanks again Ill try to get some new wire anyone have any favorites Someone said Hobart. any others. Thanks Chub380 Ps anyone ever used Panisonic gunsligers?

[Dan]

Chub380

Sorry that I m just now answering your post. Ive been pretty sick the past few days , and am still far from 100%. However, I m wondering who needs to see a doctor more me or you:D . Your the first person I ever heard state that they want to get rid of there 250 amp machine and get a 175 amp machine. 175 amp machines are nice for there portability, but your MM 250X has so much more potential.

If Im not mistaken, you posted this same question on another website and stated that the 1/4" framework is some type of weight lifting equipment rack. If Im able to move the joint into the proper position this type of job to me is best done with spray transfer. However, since you don t have the gas mix for spray transfer, I would at least like to have seen a High end (boarding on globular) short circuit transfer.

Enough with the lecture, I ll try and respond to your question now.

First of all let me state that I have never ran a MM 250X. The machine that I run at work is an early to mid 1990's MM 250. And this is the MM 250 model that my MM 210 has a better arc then.

Now, I would guess that a lot of your spatter problem comes from the settings that you are using on your machine. 280 IPM is a low wire speed setting for 21 volts. Even if this 21 volt setting on the machine is the open circuit voltage. For educational purposes leave the voltage setting at 21 and start increasing the wire speed higher. Of course you want to try this on some scrap. The best way to do this if possible is to have a helper slowly creep the wire speed up as you are welding until the arc sounds nice and crisp. Also, your spatter problem could be created from traveling too fast, but I still think you just need to play with the wire setting. Guessing though since I ve never ran the machine. Also, you were holding the recommend stickout length right?

On the wire size I would stay with the .035. If you drop down to an .030 your going to generally encounter spatter problems once you try using it for material over an 1/8" thick, because 3/16" and above material is going to require a current that puts an .030 wire into current settings were it wants to be in a spray transfer mode. However since you are using C 25 and short circuit transfer voltages the arc will pinch off in a large glob. AS far as wire brand I use the Weld It brand here at home., and have no complaints with it. It produces a nice spray transfer on my MM 210.

I generally snip the wire back so that there is about an 1/8" of it sticking past the contact tip. No matter what you should at least snip the wire back to the recommended stickout range before you start the arc. If you don t trim it back you will end up with either popping or sputtering at the start. Some guys that I work with are famous for this. You can also experience bad start with the proper stickout , by not trimming off the ball that forms on the end of the wire.

Originally, I was thinking that cold basemetal might be the cause of your popping at the your starts. However, if your basemetal was for sure up to a temperature of at least 55 degrees F this shouldn t have been a the problem causing the popping.

How about the drive roll tension has anybody possibly messed with this since the last time you used the machine.

Well, Im sorry Im probably not helping you that much Im just not up to par right now. Just didn t want you to think that I was ignoring your question so I decided to give it the best effort that I could right now. In closing though I still think that if you get rid of your MM 250X you need to see a doctor worse then I do right now:)

[Bob]

Any chance this is a polarity problem?? Don't think that has been mentioned yet.
Bob

[chub380]

Thanks Dan and everone else, I just got off the phone with Miller and The guy asked me If I changed power sources lately which I did .I used to have a long 6g cord to power my machine but we built a new bulding with 200amp sevice from the pole. My machine is right at the panel. He told me this could have changed the way the machine starts ect. He told me how to adjust the run in internaly he assured me this should fix the splatter and burn back. I guess the new 251s have an external run in feature which would be nice. So tonight I will try to adjust it and see if it helps along with making some adjustments to my wire speed and voltage. Thanks again for all the replys I really appreciate this forum. Chub Ps It is a rack to hold hand held dumbells My brother in law works with the football team and asked if I could help him build it. Ill try to get some pictures of it when its done in a couple of weeks

[chub380]

Well I got it adjusted and it seems to help the splattering and burnback. Now the problem I am having is that my welds seem to have to much of a crown. Any ideas why? My machine calls for 20v 260wirespeed but at that setting or anywhere close to that I seem to have the problem of crowning and not flowing into the sides smoothly. If I turn up the voltage to 21 and wirespeed about 350 it seems alot better. On my millermatic calculator the 21 and 350 are closer to what it calls for for 1/4. What have any of you found that works good for 1/4 inch mild steel? Thanks Chub380.

[ZACHV]

Originally posted by chub380
Well I got it adjusted and it seems to help the splattering and burnback. Now the problem I am having is that my welds seem to have to much of a crown. Any ideas why? My machine calls for 20v 260wirespeed but at that setting or anywhere close to that I seem to have the problem of crowning and not flowing into the sides smoothly. If I turn up the voltage to 21 and wirespeed about 350 it seems alot better. On my millermatic calculator the 21 and 350 are closer to what it calls for for 1/4. What have any of you found that works good for 1/4 inch mild steel? Thanks Chub380.

Are the recommendations listed for a different diameter wire than what you are working with? I just changed from .030 to .035 and had to make some adjustments to get the right penetration and bead appearance.

[chub380]

Hi, the settings are for 70s6 .035 wire c25 gas It just does not seem to have the right amount of heat to melt in good. The power is coming right from the transformer into a 200 amp service in my garage I will have to see what the actual voltage is with a meter. Also could someone please explain how to post pictures Thanks Chub380.

[ZACHV]

Originally posted by chub380
could someone please explain how to post pictures Thanks Chub380.

When you go to post there is a little box below the typing field that says "Browse". Click on that and find the file/pic you want to post and hit OK. The web server goes into your system and rips it out, but leaves your copy there.

[Dave Haak]

"Rips It Out"!!!!!!!

Wow, that cleared up a few things.

Dave

[Dan]

The voltage settings on the version of MM 250 that I run at work are the open circuit voltages. In the 20 - 30 open circuit voltage range that I run the machine in on average there is about a 2 volt drop when welding. The reason I am stating this is because most charts that show welding parameters are giving you the recommended load voltage range. By the way, out of the 6 machines that I run there is only one that I can actually use the parameter chart on and get the results that I m wanting. As my starting point on the other machines I use the same Miller calculator that you are using. Also, so you know the parameters on the Miller calculator are standard I have the exact same parameters shown in several of my welding books. Now what confuses me is the fact that Miller sells this handy parameter guide, but whoever comes up with the suggested parameters for there machines doesn t always seem to follow them. I have to state though that on my MM 210 with an.035 solid wire and C25 shielding gas the parameters for 20ga. - 3/16" all fall within the recommended parameters on the Miller calculator. Anyway, back to what I originally started this post for to begin with.

So, since my MM 250 has about a 2 volt drop, and the recommended voltage setting for 1/4" with C25 is 21 to 22 volts, I set the dial on the machine to about 24 volts as a starting point and adjusted downward if needed. Depending on the joint design my wire speed setting ranges from 350 to 365 IPM. By no means though do I use these settings for vertical up.

[chub380]

Thanks Dan, I will try the tips I appreciate the info.I will have to post the pictures of the weight rack soon it is almost done. Chub380

[chumly]

Chub,
You mentioned your wire was 3 years old,that might be a good place to start. A 2lb. roll is around $ 5.00. Might be a cheep fix!:) chumly.

[chub380]

I finally got out to the garage today and did some practice welds on the 1/4 stock I started at the factory settings and went upwards with the voltage from there trying to stay somewhere close to the mm calculator. I found for the 250x that I have 22.5v and 400 wire speed seem to lay down the flatest nicest bead. However I am not totally satisfied with the results and may get some gas and try spray transfer on my projects over 1/4 in. I never seemed to have these problems on the thinner materials I was used to welding. But most of my experiance is with stick and tig welding. With mig I never know if i should weave or not or if I am moving to fast or to slow. I know for a fact I could have made nicer looking beads on this last project with my trailblazer280 stick welding than I did with my millermatic. I just thought it would be nice not to have to deal with the slag. I did however use stick welding on the feet of this project because my brother in law got stainless squares insted of mild steel so I had to use some 309, those welds that I did with my maxstar got great. Guess I just have to practice more. When I post the pictures of the weight rack I will try to post some pictures of some of these practice welds, mabie if you guys see them you'll be able to point me in a better direction. Thanks Chub380