View Full Version : Miller Dynasty vs. Miller Syncrowave
12-23-2002, 03:27 PM
Hi I am new to this forum and was hoping you guys could help me out. I sold my syncrowave 180 about 4 months ago and am looking to upgrade. I was pretty certain on the Dynasty300dx tigrunner setup until I started reading some of these forums. I was wandering if anyone out there uses a Dynasty and what they think of it. I like some of the things you can do with the inverter style tigs; but if it is not reliable I am not interested at all. So if anyone out there has experience with the Dynasty or the Syncrowaves [250 or350] and could tell me more about them it would be very much appreciated. Also I have been hearing good things about lincolns precisiontig series tigwelders? any comments on those. I have always used miller equp. and like most of it. The prices I have gotten so far seem like the Dynasty is about $500 more than the syncro 350 both equp. with cooler and torch. Thank you so much for your responses regarding this subject. Chub380
12-23-2002, 05:43 PM
chub380 I have the Lincoln Precision 275 tig and I love it. I looked at the millers to and I thought the Lincoln had a very slight edge over miller. The arc is very smooth but if you will have to turn of the HF often you mite wont to look at the Millers. I think miller has a switch to turn it of
12-24-2002, 06:06 PM
i have been going through the same dilemma. deciding between a syncrowave 250 or the new dynasty 200(when it's released!). i've decided on the dynasty for two reasons: portability and the availability to use multiple input currents(120-460 VAC, single or three phase). if neither one of these is an issue, i'm not sure the extra money for an inverter would be worth it. as far as reliability, miller inverters seem to have a good rep. definitely not as bulletproof as a syncrowave, but if you go to millerwelds.com, they'll send you all sorts of testamonials as to the durability of their maxstars and dynastys. i've had a maxstar 140 for over a year and a half and have never had any problems with it.
12-24-2002, 06:16 PM
That machine looks awsome. I as well have a 140 which I have had for at least 3 years I love it I have never had any problems with it either. I like the Dynasty 200 But you will be kind of limited to the thickness of alum you could weld. I would think somewhere around 1/4 inch. I believe the syncrowave 250 puts out almost 100 more amps. But you should be able to get alittle more penitration with the adjustable freq. in the Dynasty 200. Keep us posted either one should be a great machine. Chub380
12-24-2002, 08:03 PM
I read somewhere that a Dynasty 300 will do the work of a 600 amp transformer machine with the adjustable frequency and the the great amount of EN that you can use. I think that you can go as far as 90EN and 10EP, and I realize that it has to be CLEAN aluminum to run the balance that far. If this is right, the Dynasty 200 should be able to put more heat into the aluminum than the Syncrowave 250. I may be all wet though. Let me know your opinions.
12-24-2002, 09:12 PM
I think you got it about right.The balance control really doesn't make as big of difference as the freq control.I had a esab 252 with all options,and it was a super nice welding machine.My friend with his syncrowave 250 welded with the esab,and like it much better than his miller.The point of this is I traded it in on a thermalarc prowave 300 amp ac/dc inverter.The inverter does everything way better than the miller or esab.The inverters are reliable at this point in time.I would never go back.The one advantage of the transformer machine is they are alot harder to steal.
12-26-2002, 12:48 PM
Hi, first I have never heard that the dynasty would be compared to a 600amp conventional machine, that would be a great selling feature if this is true. Andy from Millerwelds forum posted that it will do the work of a 450 amp machine. Either way your still talking about something comparible to a syncro 350 or precision tig 375. When I spoke to the rep at HTP about their 200amp Inverter ac/dc He told me it may be compared to a 250 to 275 amp machine max. Perhaps every machine is just alittle different in how the conversion would be. It seams like inverters really have alot to offer. My second question is for Scott V, what made you mind up to go with your prowave over all the other inverters out there? Thank you so much for the responses. I am really looking forward to getting my new machine and want to make the right choice. Nice talking to You guys Hope you all had good christmas. Chub
12-26-2002, 06:45 PM
The reason I went with the prowave was a couple of reasons.First I got a better deal on the prowave.Also Thermal has been messing with the Inverters longer.I really hated to give up proven transformer based machines,but it seems to be holding up nice.At the time it was down to the dynasty vs prowave,and miller just changed their control from the knob setup.I would of been happy with the dynasty also,or even the lincoln 205 inverter.It has some nice options also.I don't think you could really make a mistake buying any of them.
12-29-2002, 04:27 PM
This is a question for Rod, thank you first for replying, it is nice to get alot of opinions before buying. Have you used both syncrowaves and precisiontigs? I have always used Miller machines except for my first lincoln buz box 9 years old. When I saw the precisiontig I really liked how it was laid out. I asked alot of questions and nobody had anything bad to say about it but most people were partial to the syncrowaves. I had a syncrowave 180 and thought it worked fine. But I have never really tried the lincolns to see if they were actually better I was hoping you could tell me some of the reasons you went with what you did. When I talked to the Miller rep he said that Lincoln really did their homework;but that it was not really any better than the syncrowaves. He did however say that it did not compare to their Dynasty. As far a cosmetics alone I think the precisiontig is laid out better than the syncrowaves. I think I will try to use both machines before I buy one. Any one who has any knowledge on these machines please comment. Thanks Chub380
12-29-2002, 05:09 PM
chub380 I have used the syncrowaves but very very little sow I couldnít really give you a recommendation on the Miller welders. The only thing I could suggest is renting both machines if you can and try them both out that whose what I wonted to do but couldnít find anyone renting out the Lincolns sow I didnít do it. I like the layout of the Lincolns a lot better that is the primarily the reason I got the Lincoln and its very easy to upgrade the controls and the digital read out is very sweat and cleaner looking. I have never seen a Lincoln Tig in the 250-275 amp range at work but we have a lot of older millers but in the Mig machines Iím starting to se a trend to Lincoln sorry for not being much help I had the same trouble when I did the research for my welder Rod
P.S I do now I like the Lincoln foot amptrol better but that is probable just personnel preference and you can get the same style for the millers if you really have to have one
12-29-2002, 07:20 PM
Looks like the Dynasty will take 3 phase input, as well as 1 phase. The Syncrowave will get about 100 more amps than the Dynasty (?) according to the spec sheet at the Miller website.
I've used syncrowave 300's for years, with no complaints...done many certifications on 'em. Both are squarewave machines, too.
12-31-2002, 02:02 PM
Another thing about the Lincoln they recommend a 125 amp breaker. If you use more then 25% Helium mix you could have problems with the rectifier. Sow I donít now if you use more them 25% or not. I can weld up to about 200amp on a 50amp breaker and it hasnít tripped yet
Hobart Expert Rock
01-07-2003, 10:06 AM
OK CHUB380..........WHAT WAS YOUR DECISION, INOTHERWARDS WHAT DID YOU BUY................................ROCK
01-07-2003, 10:43 AM
I have had a Dynasty 300 tigrunner setup for close to three years now. No problems to speak of. It is a great machine and a true joy to use. The question really comes down to what you are welding. For most DC applications, you aren't going to see a big difference between the two machines. The Dynasty will probably have better/more consistent starts but both DC arcs are going to be smooth. As for AC, this is where the Dynasty really shines. Being able adjust AC frequency is a nice feature that I do use often. The machine has true squarewave output meaning that continuous HF is not needed, and in fact not even available. One can weld in AC with lift start and not even have to use HF at all. The AC arc is extremely stable and smooth with very good low amp control. Using a pointed lanthanated tungsten for aluminum assist in getting the arc and heat where you want it. The foot amperage control with the Dynasty has a quicker response than with old transformer machines I've used. When you give it some gas, you get the heat fast.
The Dynasty and inverters in general require less amps to run. This is a big plus for home shops where current capacity might be an issue.
I purchased the my Dynasty over the Thermal unit because it had a wider range of parameters and a fully adjustable pulser. The Dynasty also has all major components made in the USA. So far I have not been disappointed or regretted my purchase. It's a joy to use every time I fire it up.
Hope this can point you in the right direction.
01-07-2003, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the reply. It really helps ease the price tag for the Dynasty when you hear good feedback. Along with your response I was working at Bayer (The aspirin company) and in there maint.shop they use a Dynasty300dx. They have nothing but good to say about it. One thing I was not aware of was that the Dynasty did not have High freq, I thought it was not necessary but had it one the machine if you wanted to use it. Also does anyone know how much differance it makes that the Dynasty200 balance control goes to 30 vs. the Dynasty300 50 Does this mean that the 200 would have more cleaning action? To answer Rocks question I am 95% sure I will get a Dynasty300dx tigrunner. It will be used mostly on thin alum-3/8 inch and mabye for some s/s if i like it better than my maxstar. Thanks again for the replys Chub380
01-07-2003, 03:31 PM
If you go to the miller website and download the owner's manual for the 300dx you will see that the ac balance range is actually from 30-99% DCEN. That ought to give you all you ever needed! Miller does not have the 200dx on the website yet, but there is a brochure available. If while in the literature section, you request it nicely, I'm sure they will send you a copy. At least they did for me. I'm at work so I can't comment specifically on what the ac balance range is listed as within the brochure, but I believe it will also be 30-99% once the owner's manual for the 200dx finally comes out.
With caution, I might add that reversing the leads from the prescribed location should then provide 1-70% DCEN or 30-99% DCEP. I say with caution,because we all know how running high amounts of DCEP above 100 or so amps will flat out destroy anything short of a really fat tungsten AND there is no guarantee from Miller the dynasty was ever designed with the necessary protection for the IGBTs to run in this manner. But I just thought you would like to know that very few other machines (certainly not lincoln!) have this much control.
01-07-2003, 03:56 PM
I really appreciate the info. I have a new catalog and I was going by the stats in there. It says for the Dynasty200 the - portion of the cycle is 30-90% and for the Dynasty300 the -portion 50-90%. Thanks for clearing up that question. Do you also use Dynastys? Thanks again Chub380
01-07-2003, 04:16 PM
I, like you, have been patiently waiting to see if the 200dx would meet my needs. Now that I have a brochure I think I 've decided to go for the dynasty 300dx. I just don't want to buy it now if they (miller) are planning to make any updates or changes. It is after all a 1998 machine--though there have been a few changes in that time. I think I'll send a note to miller to see if they plan any changes before I flash the visa.
01-07-2003, 04:27 PM
Funny you should ask that yesterday I was on the phone with miller and asked them that same question they told me it would be years till they change anything on the Dynasty300. I was hoping this was true because in the past about three times I purchased a machine they came out with something I would have waited for. Like dual digital meters, adding a remote contactor to a portable tig machine ect. Man I hate that but I guess they have to keep up on their game. If your looking for spec on the 200 go to cyberweld.com they have a picture and specs. It looks real cool. If I were doing all remote stuff I would definatly get the 200. You can run it off anything from110-460. I also think I will go for the 300 because I would rather have the extra power than the portability. Please explain to me what you ment about switching the leads. Chub380
01-07-2003, 04:59 PM
I don't recommend this because I don't believe Miller would either, but the manual will show you that the gnd lead gets connected to one post and the torch gets connected to another. They define a certain setup for AC-tig. If your AC balance is always 50%dcen and 50% dcep, then reversing the leads doesn't change the weld waveform other than which polarity started first. BUT, if you are now changing the balance so that you have 99%DCEN and 1%DCEP, then reversing the leads changes this to 99%DCEP and 1%DCEN, which has a profound change on the arc shape and heat into the metal and tungsten. I mentioned this in one note to show that if you wanted to have more DCEP in your ac wave you could do so by reversing the leads. The caution is that you will need a much bigger tungsten, you can't run much above 100 amps, and it may cause heating problems for the switching transistors in the inverter section of the welder. There are a ton of protection circuits involved since large currents are switched very fast. When this happens there is a strong tendency for the signal to 'spike' or have overshoots and undershoots. There needs to be good clamping and protection for this to not cause reliability problems.
Soooooooo, I would just set it up as they have defined in the manual. That's the safe bet, at least until your warranty is finished!
01-08-2003, 08:17 AM
The Dynasty 300 does not have continuous HF. It indeed does have HF start that works well and is programmable. As for balance control, I believe once you go below 40% or 50%, the impact balance control has is less significant. I would have to consult the manual on this one.