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royce
02-29-2004, 07:01 AM
Hi, All. New to welding...strictly hobby.
I went to weld together a galv/cast pipe clamp onto the end of a 2" heavy galv pipe. These are common scaffolding items.
I tried some 6011 that I had picked up and I coud not stabilize an arc...at all. I pulled out some 6013 and it went right to work.

1st: I know [now, from reading] that the fumes are bad from galv. I'll be careful in the future.
2nd: The 6013 was tried on a different spot than the 6011, so the 6013 did not 'burn off' any external coatings to make it easy for the 6013.

So, why did the 6013 work and not the 6011, and what would I use 6011 on?

BillC
02-29-2004, 08:47 AM
Royce,

I can't think of any reason why the material would affect the stability of the arc of 6011 vs 6013. I'm assuming that you are familiar with the operating characteristics of both rods (very different) and have succesfully run both rods with this welder? Hopefully these parts were just being welded on as scraps, as neither of these rods is indicated for cast iron...

6011 is a fast-freeze rod used for dirty (or clean) surfaces and deep penetration. 6011 is a good choice for welding over galvanized. 6013 is a fill-freeze rod used on cleaner surfaces, with medium penetration and good results with poor fitup. Both are all position rods that can be used AC or DC.

Regards,

Blacksmith
03-01-2004, 06:41 PM
Either should have workrd equally well/poorly - neither is choice for cast iron. I use both almost interchangeably; I agree that the technique is different, but both work on mild steel well. Maybe your batch of 601 is bad, try it on some mild steel. 6011 can run a little less amperage and as stated is a good "dirty" rod. 6013 likes a little more amperage, but I have used it to fill holes I accidently blew through with 6011.

TonyC
03-01-2004, 11:23 PM
While we're on this topic...I've been told that 6011 rod is much easier to weld with than 6013, at least for novice weldors. Any truth to that?

Stu Bass
03-02-2004, 01:51 AM
Royce: Have a question for you. I noticed in your post that you are a hobby welder and the pieces that you are welding are scaffolding. Tubelock maybe? If so they should be ground and welded with 7018lh. After being OSHA trained in my area we can only make any field welds on scaffolding with 7018, and acually only by a cert. welder. Osha does'nt like the fast freeze rod used on scaffold. Stu Bass

cope
03-02-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by TonyC
While we're on this topic...I've been told that 6011 rod is much easier to weld with than 6013, at least for novice weldors. Any truth to that?

That wasn't my expeience with the two. One thing about the 6011 is that its forgiving when you use less than clean metal, but I didn't find it easier to weld with.

royce
03-02-2004, 07:26 AM
The scaffolding in question is standard ladder end frame steel scaffold and standard swivel clamps.
I am in the concert business so we ue this particular scaff for staging and patforming of audio equipment. I do not and will not do any welding for critical positions or rigging. I understand my amateur/hobbyist' status and will never mixbusiness with pleasure. I just thought this would be a good place to experiment and learn.

To re-cap:
2"galve pipe & swivel clamp....poor fitup (I'm learning the lingo) and no surface prep....
Welder at 80 amps
6011 rod: Nothing. An occasional flare up but no arc.
Nothing changes...
6013 rod: Instant arc and welding away. Workpiece turned over and the other side (as yet untouchd) welded fast & easy. SOlid resuts...notpretty but cannot be broken apart.

Can you get a bad batch of rods? Now I'm thinking maybe that rod of 6011 had some residue on the end of the stick and it stopped good connection at the holder?

I am going to o back & try agan and see if the same thing occurs with ther rods fom that box.

Additional info: I am using the Harbor Freight Mini-80, which is an import AC Inverter unit. THis is certainy not in the league of what you guys ll use, but I needed something that ran on 110, was small enough to be portable, nd could also do TIG. I saw this and for $130 had to find out. My primary use will be gunsmithing and backyard tinkering.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3730

BillC
03-02-2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by TonyC
While we're on this topic...I've been told that 6011 rod is much easier to weld with than 6013, at least for novice weldors. Any truth to that? When I went to welding school, we started out with 6013/6012. After that you learn 6010/6011. Finally they bump you to 7018.

Regards,

Terry Lingle
03-02-2004, 10:57 AM
that description of the 6011 sounded exactly like a beginner with a low open curcuit voltage buzz box and 7018 rod .
what is the machines open cicuit voltage ? Terry

dseman
03-02-2004, 11:21 AM
Running 6011 is different than running 6013. Both are classifed as AC/DC rods by AWS, but are different in terms of their operating characteristics as others have described. 6013 does start easier than 6011 especially on marginal power supplies---as this HF unit is. There are flux differences between the two, but I don't have that data in front of me to tell you specifically. The owner's manual indicates 78 OCV and a hot-start for smaw. Now on this surface ,this would seem to be sufficient. High OCV is usually necessary for traditional xfmrs w/out hot-start, but is not AS important when you come to inverters. A proper hot-start will increase the starting amperage for about 100msec and then return to the set value. I say proper, because I haven't a clue as to this inverter's design. But I believe what is an overlooked necessity is sufficient inductance in the circuit to ensure that when the arc voltage goes to zero--as it does in a short--that the current does not. In fact a good supply will have the current at about a max when the arc voltage is zero. This is an important aspect of what is necessary to sustain an arc.

For $130 you've gotten what you paid for-- a machine that will work with 3/32 or smaller 6013 and possibly 7014.

One last thought, you may try to reverse the stinger and work leads at the machine to change the polarity from DCEP to DCEN. This may help with your starting. Also, make sure there are no boogers at the tip of the rod. You want clean metal at the tip.

-dseman

drizler
03-05-2004, 08:07 PM
6013 is a lot easier to start and work with as I have experienced it. The other thing I like is that it gives me nicer looking welds if its required. I have occasionally welded the structure of something with 6011 then finished it off on the outer surfaces with the top bead being 6013 as it makes a smoother finish to keep water from collecting. Don't ask me if its a proper procedure but it hasn't busted yet.

Snidley
03-08-2004, 10:21 AM
royce:

To weld galvanized with 6013 rods you have to grind it off first to get a proper weld.

With 6011 - proper amps and offset - it will burn thru the galvanized and as a deep penetration rod and will generally give you excellent fusion.

Please note that the fumes given off from galvanized metal are toxic (zinc) and ventalation is need/required.

What size rods are you using and at what amps? The difficulty with the 6011's seem to be insufficent amps. If they are 1/8" - amps should be around 100 (slightly more for AC)
for starters.