98 Caravan ?? listen to this

[vicegrip]

Two novembers ago I started it up to go to work.
Went about 20 feet and completely lost all locomotion.
I Coasted to the side and waited a few moments to take it in.

Thinking like in the 70's I figured a main issue a major seal blown,
a front pump ?? sump'n any way.
Started thinking lets see, and it went back into the alley.
The Escourt got better MPG's so I parked it and started
the engine every two months.

It's battery was near the end anyway. I put a good battery in it today
and SHAZAM...... IT WOKS AGAIN.
I had heard about shift solenoid issues, that I know Jack Diddle about.
Maybe I'll retag and insure it, and see what happens...

What do I know anymore.:o;)

[Sberry]

You are a genius,,, come fix one I have,, ha. I just did one in a 2005 Freestar, busticated torque converter,, really it was stripped along with input shaft. I didn't even take the whole thing apart, only as far as I had to. Ford garage wanted 3300. Cost me less than 300 and a day R&R. I have another one to do next week, different issue though and need to investigate a bit more first.

[vicegrip]

I have another one to do next week, different issue though
and need to investigate a bit more first.

When it went one more burst and made it to the alley.....
I knew I was in over my head. There are just things that give out
mechanicly that simply can't go one more time.
That univerce is reserved for electrical & electro-mechanical wounds.

Hence I've been casually taking in information for over a year.
This was totally unexpected. I just had that nudge from with-in
that said "put it in gear", after the good battery was installed.
I still need ta Know.... specially if I'm going to commute with it.
Cheers.

[vicegrip]

Well just Kuz I went out and tryed her again, just to sleep good tonight.
YUP , nuthing, Nutt'n, nadda, and I realy did expect that.
Tomorrow I'll open the battery circuit again and see if this cycle repeats.

Looks like I'll be taking intwebs Shift soleniod 101 this week.
I look at this like an early Christmass preasant.:)
I was gonna pull the tranny.:eek:

[whateg0]

Our 99 T&C did that for awhile when it was cold. You would stop at a corner, and then when you wanted to go again, it just sat there for a few seconds 'til it "kicked in". Then it was fine. Seemed worse when it was cold. Ex ruined the motor shortly after we split. Apparently, it's true that these internal combustion engine things do need internal lubrication. Anyway, I no longer have that problem. Kept putting it off for nicer weather, then it wouldn't fail. Good luck!

Dave

[Sberry]

While its easy to assume that there is electric problems,, etc,,, most of it is pretty reliable, today still the lions share of problems are caused by failure of hard parts that go round and round, up and down. I was in shop not to long ago, they were fooling with every gadget on the car, I finally said,,, give me the comp tester,,, bigger than ****, burned exhaust valve and no matter how many times they change the puter and gadgets wasn't going to fix the valve.
I ordered service manual for mine, I had already suspected the problem though, it wasn't pumping any fluid,,, no go, not a whimper. Since we cant post links,,, Makco Transmission parts dot com, they were the most reasonable on the parts and had the manuals.

[whateg0]

That reminds me of a friend's car that would die after running for about a half-hour. I kept telling them that I just needed to look at it, but they had so many other friends who had a car that once needed a MAF, or whose dad had a neighbor whose car needed a TPS, etc, that they never would bring it over. They just kept throwing parts at it half-blindly. One day, I was over there and suggested having a quick look. Started it up and it started to sputter after about 25 minutes idling. Sounded like it was losing fuel. So, I put the fuel pressure gauge on it and it as almost nothing. Let it sit for a bit and it started back up with good fuel pressure. Ran for a few minutes and the FP started to drop. I said fuel pump. Replaced the filter, since the neighbor insisted that that's all it was and we would do that anyway, but the symptom was the same. So, I replaced the fuel pump and all was well. I was over there for a get-together a couple weeks later and commented out loud about how sometimes the uninformed just assume that because they had a car with a problem that was fixed by replacing "part A" all car problems must be fixed by replacing "part A". I don't think I made too many new friends that day.

Dave

[Sberry]

Yes,, its common method of trouble shooting,,, all red cars do that,, ha

[dumb as a stump]

So I have a 98 voyager so I will give you a piece of cheap advice replace to atx circuit breaker first new 11 bucks but swap it from somewhere unnessessary for now and see what it does. Lots of electrical problems on those pos's.

[vicegrip]

So I have a 98 voyager so I will give you a piece of cheap advice.
Replace to (atx circuit breaker) first.
New 11 bucks, but swap it from somewhere unnessessary for now and see what it does.
Lots of electrical problems on those pos's.

A little hard for me to follow.
Is the above what you mean? Replace the/a (atx circuit breaker) first.
PS
I discovered that about 15 seconds of nearly full throttle in neutural, does the trick.
Release pedal to idle, drop in drive or reverce, and shifts normal.
Shut of engine, turn back on , nothing again.??:confused::(

[Wyoming]

Phil, you need to take that automatic out of the equation.

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/wilson_tim/rocketcar/V1Rocketcar.jpg

[vicegrip]

I did consider briefly gutting the power train......... do'n some body mods,
and ending up with a cool airodynamic camper.

No rockets thO'
Wife has mentioned dynomite :eek: ;)

[Wyoming]

Best of luck Phil. Don't know about dynamite these days...those Homeland Insecurity guys get rabid at the mention...how the heck they expect ya' to catch any fish in Kentucky???

[vicegrip]

This is S.E. Wisconsin, we here are sitting ducks for Gov't brainfarts,
like ethinol and the fatherland OOps I mean Homeland thugs.
but easier still to be mowed down by a 5-time convicted drunk-driver
or a gangsta's stray bullit.

[Wyoming]

Phil,
It doesn't matter where ya' live when it comes to the multiple conviction drunken drivers. Too much money in 'em to keep 'em off the road. During the day you can't find a cop...come bar closing time they are as thick as thieves. Once the police got a taste of that $575 DUI conviction money any chance of actually getting the drunks off the road went out the door. Remember, we have to keep our lawyers, judges, bail bondsmen, police, etc., etc., etc. in a job.

[vicegrip]

Roy !! On a brighter note........
We keep getting cloud-cover at night..:(

Seen any good Aurora Boriallis out by You?
.........Big Sky country and all that ;)
vg

[Wyoming]

Seems like years since the last really good Northern Lights Phil. Back in the early '80s there were times when the lights would come in well past overhead, throbbing and multi-colored as well. Suppose I could Google sunspot activity and see when the next round might be due... Killer and I keep pondering a telescope, but always put it off 'cause we haven't a clue as to how large, what brand, etc. to get. Crisp evening at this elevation...and lack of civilization's light pollution, make for starry nights.

[canoecruiser]

A Meade ETX-90 is a decent hobby 'scope for about $450. Sharp optics, practically no color distortion and good light-gathering. Images are upright, important for terrestrial viewing though they are left-right reversed. Eyepieces are inexpensive. Easily resolves moons of Jupiter or rings of Saturn. A full moon looks like a NASA photo. No tripod but it has a 1/4-20 tapped mounting hole so it fits anything out there. Take it outside and you're viewing in one minute. Forget the refractors, the light-in-one-end, eye-at-the-other type. Modern folded reflectors beat 'em hands-down. Magnification is of practically no importance compared to optical performance.

[Roadrider]

Was the problem with the transmission ever solved? I think I would have first checked to see if there was vacuum to the modulator, vacuum could be effected by engine temperature, throttle position, leaky lines etc. that would cause problems with the modulator which helps control the hydraulic pressure and shifting. If there is good vacuum, next I would disconnect the modulator and see if there was any difference or if the car moved. Most modulators can be replaced with the trans in the car, they screw into the case. A bad modulator will cause lots of shifting problems.
Frank

[vicegrip]

I would like to have gotten closure on that car.
It was in great shape otherwise.
But a local mechanic told me that tranny was cursed on the drawing board.

A scrapper came thru one day and offered me $450 for it.

R I P Caravan.:(


PS:
I looked for anything resembling a vacume modulator
harkening back to the old days (C4's & Turbo 350's) etc etc and saw nothing.

[Roger]

Early Caravans did have transmission problems. Newer ones i believe are ok. Grumman postal vans have Caravan front wheel drive system getting hard high mileage use.

[Roadrider]

Wow, I am taking a class in auto trans rebuilding and was really hoping to hear what the outcome was. I know the feeling, I scraped a few out of frustration.
Frank

[usmcpop]

Geeze, there are still people out there who buy cars with automatic transmissions? (I mean, except for the wife's car.) My Mom drove a stick shift car into her 60's until Dad's arthritis made it impossible for him to shift. She liked the "control". Glad we talked her into getting that 1969 Camaro with a stick shift so we kids could learn.

[SidecarFlip]

Kids today don't even know how to shift and clutch. We live in the PRNDL generation.......

I bet the trans issue was electrical and not mechanical. Transmissions today are completely controlled electronically.

My big issue with a FWD vehicle is the transmission/differential and oftentimes the engine are common castings and a real PITA.

I figure if my Caddy ever has issues, I'll junk it. That Northstar V8 with the transaxle is very intimidating and most likely insanely expensive to fix.

[vicegrip]

Speeking OF .....
Check this out.....
I don't remember ever knowing about it.???
If it is home-made, I like it!
4 on the Tree!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjkRB1Ibjj0&list=PL502DEFE00EABFC6B&index=184&feature=plpp_video

[SidecarFlip]

Interesting. Cars sure have changed inside. Reminds me of my dad's 63 Merc.

[usmcpop]

My '67 Chevy pickup had 3 on the tree.

[Roadrider]

4 speed on the tree? That is amazing, I never heard of that before, next Tuesday night I will ask my instructor about that, he has been rebuilding transmissions for 50+ years. Some of the other instructors tell me he is the best they have ever seen. I will let you know what he says.
Frank

[Roadrider]

I just did a search for a ford 4 speed column shift, it came up as Dagenheim 4 speed Column shift that was available as a factory option, it did not give the years it was available. The article says they are extremely rare to find.
Frank

[vicegrip]

Research a "Roto Hydramatic" aka (SlimJim) Tranny.

I bought a Grand Prix '65' I think in about '76'
Did a swap for a better engine, and I didn't recognise the tranny ???
When I separated it from the Engine :eek::eek::eek:
No Tourque converter !!
Just a Mountplate/ring-gear with a shock-hub just like on a clutch.

Called an old Wizzard, and he told me, now you have a car that started
the old saying "ya can't tow it without separating the driveshaft from the pumpkin".

It has a small Tourque converter inside, just for first and reverce, and a rear pump and in the back.
He told me to stop the car in second and call him and tell him what happened.
ShaZzam, it killed the engine!! Once yer outta first it's direct drive thru the plantary.

If you tow it with rear wheels on the ground you can blow the rear pump.

The car was pretty but a a deathtrap, too much power to have front suspention isues.

Phil

============================================

http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology/247-hydramatic-history-part-2.html?start=2
ROTO HYDRA-MATIC

The main design brief for the third-generation "Roto Hydra-Matic," developed by Detroit Transmission assistant general manager Jack Qualman, was to make it smaller and cheaper than its controlled-coupling predecessor. The new transmissions was greatly simplified: the main fluid coupling, the front planetary gearset and sprag clutch, and one oil pump were deleted, leaving the small dump-and-fill front coupling. That coupling now did double duty: when it was full, it acted as a clutch, connecting the transmission to the engine and putting the front planetary gearset in direct drive. In second gear, it was empty, providing a completely mechanical connection between the engine and the driveshaft. Because the coupling was still very small -- only eight inches (203 mm) in diameter -- its operating pressure was increased from 40 psi (2.76 bars) to 180 (12.41 bars), to give it more torque capacity.

Although GM carefully described it as "four-stage" transmission, the Roto Hydra-Matic now had only three forward speeds. To compensate, a fixed-blade stator was added to the fluid coupling, making it a torque converter. The added multiplication provided by the stator (which Oldsmobile advertising christened the "Accel-A-Rotor") partially compensated for the loss of the earlier Hydra-Matic's short first gear.

[Wyoming]

Phil,
Just for you...cuz Uncle Roy cares.

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/G3GM72Rfw4M/mqdefault.jpg
Darn! Link doesn't...type in Citroen 2CV cold start over on Youtube.

Check out the gear shift pattern on the dash gauge around 2:04 in the video. Used to see those old horses pumping blue smoke in van delivery around the smaller villes in France...so butt ugly they were cute.

http://www.gdj.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/dadanddaisy.jpg

EDIT: Link didn't.

[vicegrip]

I see a jpeg ?? but not a Vid ???

Trying Cold start fail ??

Ha Ha foun it !

Gosh a choke !!
Remember chokes !!

[Wyoming]

Long as the subject ain't writ in stone...yet. Gotta a friend up near Hebdon Bridge west of Leeds that owns a grain bin manufacturing business...they still pound out the bins manually in an old woolen mill in town...lord's own noise on the shop floor!!! Anyway, another shot of a butt ugly mini van.
http://www.karters.co.uk/karters_morris_van.jpg

I did ask why they didn't just but a stamping press or two for the bins and the guy said with England's tax laws it wouldn't mean an extra cent profit, but it would mean a drastic work force reduction.
http://www.purplewaveauction.com/i/a/2012/20120509ag/A6201.JPG

EDIT: Forgot...the guy was rebuilding the old Morris with his teenage son so he could take it for his driver's license exam.

[Wyoming]

Chokes? Yeah, my old Cruisemissile still has the factory manual choke. Rebuilt the automatic choke on my '65 Microbus when it needed it...28 PICT if I remember my parts numbers correctly.
http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/1984_Toyota_Land_Cruiser_HJ47_Troop_Carrier_Troopi e_Front_1.jpg

[vicegrip]

what Fun !

2:30 AM here .... G'nite ;):)

[Wyoming]

Sweet dreams Phil.
http://news.ellwoodcity.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/216-second-street-apt-2-0031.jpg

[Roadrider]

Phil, we did touch on the slim jim trans during class but did not dwell on it. One of the things I like about this instructor is he limits his "war stories" to issues be discussed. Mr D. as we call him is in his early 80's and stays up to date with current automotive technology involving transmissions. His owns and operates a transmission shop that specializes in Rolls Royce and Bentley transmissions with mostly dealers as his customer base. How I wish I knew what he forgot about transmissions. I don't think I have ever met anyone that I admire that much. I am hoping to do an apprenticeship in his shop, but don't know that i could meet his standards. The man is truly one of a kind.
Frank

[vicegrip]

I don't think I have ever met anyone that I admire that much. I am hoping to do an apprenticeship in his shop,
but don't know that i could meet his standards. The man is truly one of a kind.
Frank

The only standard you need to meet, to accell & acheive is this one.

Keep your mind in "learning gear" no matter how far you go
or how much you acheive. And continue to show respect to your
"fellows" be they older/younger boss/student.

I have had a few like him over the years, and when I remember them,
I get a warm fuzzy like sit'n in Grandpa's lap.
Phil

[Roadrider]

The only standard you need to meet, to accell & acheive is this one.

Keep your mind in "learning gear" no matter how far you go
or how much you acheive. And continue to show respect to your
"fellows" be they older/younger boss/student.

I have had a few like him over the years, and when I remember them,
I get a warm fuzzy like sit'n in Grandpa's lap.
Phil

Good advice!

[vicegrip]

One of the most usefull lessons I ever learned (PERIOD) was in an Aamco tranny shop
in the late 70's. The owner was an engineer (top level grad) who quit that trade
and opened the tranny shop. We had universal joints to replace on a full size Chevy.
The car had been left for years on a farm. The other guy they hired to pull & reinstall
the trannys was nearly frantic over the needle caps being frozen solid. The boss said
to both of us, you need to understand "shockWaves" and the relationship of "mass"
from one size of object seized to another.

He layed the yolk accross a heavy vise and had me hold the nose so it wasn't
tipped down. "OK here's how it's done" he said, and gave it one mighty hit on the cheek
with a 24 oz. machinist's hammer. "Now 180 he said" so I rolled it around half a turn.
I noticed the first side was now busted loose, and moved just a little less than a 16th".

A second dead blow got the opposite side loose. Now he shifted the yolk to loosen the shaft
needle-caps, and gave me the hammer. "Hit it very fast with the face of the hammer
aligned perfectly on the cheek while I hold it", he said. "Shock is the differencial created by
a light hammer, at high velocity sending a wave of motion thru the molecules, faster than
the components can change position and or absorb the impact".

A sledge can't be weilded fast enough, and simply deforms the U-joint & the arbor-press
is an even poorer choice as it just bends the joint destroying the yolk or shaft.

I've since won bets freeing drawbars from milling machines many times, using the lightest
ball-peen hammer found in the shop, after others failed with heavy hammers,
having only managed to mushroom the end of the drawbar, and knock the head out of tram.

[Roadrider]

That pretty interesting VG, I like hanging around people who know more then I do
Frank

[vicegrip]

Thank You!
I like to start each day finding out what I can learn.
..........................
I prefer a setting where I am the learner, This forum has (or at least did have)
oodles of very sharp guys posting on a wide range of great stuff.
I don't know why many have gone idle??:(
I couldn't do part of my job were it not for the tips & guidance I got here.

vg