View Full Version : welders
RFR2212
11-06-2002, 06:01 PM
Alright guys, I'm almost sure y'all can help steer me in the right direction! I'm in the market for a welder this winter for an x-mas present. The goal is 300-400 bucks, which I know is on the low end. I've used 115v Miller migs a few years back. Now, I'm most likely never going to surpass welding 3/8 in and most likely will be at 1/8th to 1/4in metal. I'm mostly going to be welding brackets for my truck. No intention now to be building roll cages, bumpers or welding the frame, as i don't trust my hand that much.
Right now, my garage only has yer standard 120v plugs, and don't want to pay to have a 220v line installed! Now, I'm not totally against it, as I'd love to have a Hobart 175. Now, what i was lookin at was this lincoln:
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=U1474-2
I know that Miller, Hobart and Lincoln tend to be good welders, but need some experts advise. I was looking at the Hobart 175 and I know it would weld all my possible needs, and i tend to enjoy nice tools, as well as ones that will last. Getting the 175 would manage me weasling this as a joint x-mas/21st bday present, and then get the 220line, and gas...
Anything you guys can help me with? Is there any good 115v welders that will get the job done close to my price range?
Thanks in advance!
Pete
RFR2212
11-06-2002, 06:02 PM
Oh and stick isn't out of the question either, i just have never used it, and it'd take some practice and help from a friends dad who welds...
Thanks
Al T.
11-06-2002, 06:24 PM
That Lincoln looks like a good deal if you are on a tight buget. Plus you wouldn't need the 220vac installed. It comes with a roll of fluxcored so at first you wouldn't need gas, until you want your welds cleaner and almost smoke free. Don't get that cart with it, your first project should be a welding cart, its alot cheaper that way. You may have to do a multi pass to do 1/4 inch steel, but hey, that's just more welding time!
I have the hh175 and am very happy with it. I guess with 2 tanks and leathers and helmets I got about a grand in it so far. Cyberweld.com is where I bought mine. The 220vac line I put in myself, its easy to do. Just have a electrician friend advise you or do it for you if your not comfortable with it.
Whatever you get, enjoy it, and post lots of pictures and stories for us. We'll do the same.
Hobart Expert Dave
11-06-2002, 06:26 PM
You need to make sure of the package you are buying. Looking at this Lincon welder it States it will weld 1/4" material but then again it is only a 100 amp welder. If Miller and Hobart State 3/16 with a 135 amp welder how would you be able to weld 1/4" with a 100 amp machine. Sure with enough passes a preperation you can but wouldnt you be happy with a machine with a little more output. Just My Hobart Opinion. Now I have been in some Tractor Supply stores this week and they have the Hobart Handler 135 for $419 This is close to your range and More of a welder.
Thanks
Dave Evans
Al T.
11-06-2002, 06:29 PM
I forgot to mention, checkout your local welding shop. They may have just what you are looking for. Always give them a chance to come down on the price, remember these are the guys you rely on for service and supplies later on.
RFR2212
11-06-2002, 06:58 PM
Thansk. Hopefully tomorrow, I'm going to make it down to Farm King... Pretty much another form of Farm and Fleet. I believe I've seen Hobart's there, but unsure of the price... yet i do remember them having one around 500 bucks... so we shall see :)
Thanks
Pete
PigTurd
11-06-2002, 08:19 PM
Pete! Glad you made it over :D I told ya they'd steer ya in the right direction!
Chris
Mark Whiddon
11-06-2002, 08:24 PM
I think you will be much happier if you get as much out of the 110 volt that you can(meaning go bigger). I have a firepower 130 and absolutely love it, but it is really pushing the machine to weld in the 1/4" region. I have an engine driven welder for heavier welding, but I LOVE the portability of this 110 welder. Just go with as much as you can in the 110 volt models because they are not up to doing loads of welding. Most have thermal protection, but if you keep tripping the circuit breaker on the machine it will eventually harm the machine and you will trip it if you do much 1/4" welding. That is just a fact of life with the 110's from whomever you buy. But the tradeoff is they are fantastically portable and a bit cheaper. Like someone said the 220 line is not difficult to put in, you could possibly even check the archives on this site to find out how to do it. I did it to my shop when I had my AC buzz box. Stick welding is really not as hard as alot of people will have you think. Once you pick your rod and size you set your machine and your only adjustment is in your travel speed (according to the thickness of your material). As long as you hold the electrode with one hand, use the other hand to both hold the gripping hand and lean against the work to steady yourself, it is not a big deal. My stick welding seems to outshine my wire welding (mostly on thicker stuff), but I have been stick welding for alot longer. There is also much less to go wrong with a stick welder. Just a few thoughts
Mark
Mowjunk
11-07-2002, 05:50 AM
Pete, when I was shopping for my last machine, I showed a local dealer a price that I found on the internet, and he said he would match it. I didn't get the machine from him because of other reasons, but it's something to think about.
Pete,
Send me an e-mail address, I would like to talk to you.
Thanx
Arbo
Pete
The material thickness that your wanting to weld on makes a 120 volt 135 amp machine a very poor choice. These 120 volt machines are best suited for 1/8" and thinner material. To weld 3/16 material with a 120 volt machine you have to use a self shielded fluxcore wire. But to weld 3/16 the machine is going to be maxed out, and 135 amps is actually a cold weld for certain joint designs on 3/16 material. Also, at this current setting the machine is going to have a very limited duty cycle.
The ideal wire feed machine for what your wanting to weld on would be a machine like my MM 210 or an Ironman 210, however these are both well beyond your price range. So this leaves the HH 175 as your best option in a wire feed machine. However, a HH 175 is still around $550. To weld 1/4" material with a HH 175 you will want to use co 2 shielding gas and pull the weld bead, or use a self shielded fluxcore wire. At its maximum output a HH 175 gives a home hobbiest weldor a fair duty cycle, which according to my owners manual is 20%.
Now 1/8" to 1/4" material is easily welded with a stick machine. You can get a Hobart Stickmate 235AC/160 DC for slightly more than $400. This stick welder will actually allow you to weld way beyond the material thickness that you are currently wanting to weld on. Plus, The weld bead penetration that you can achieve on 1/4" material with the proper rod is much better than either of the two option available to you using the HH 175.
Another advantage this stick machine would give you is the ability to set the machine up as a scratch start TIG machihne for welding steel and stainless steel. By know means is it an ideal tig machine but with enough practice you can do a very acceptable TIG weld. To do this it requires the DC side of the machine.
Well there now I think I have given you so information to think about . If you want more indepth info ask your question and we will try to answer.
RFR2212
11-07-2002, 05:10 PM
Well... after searching some more... I'm thinking 1 of 2 welders assuming I can get a 220v in the garage.
Either the Hobart 175
or the Hobart Stickmate lx23
I'd probly get the Hobart 175 fer 550 bucks at www.cyberweld.com or the Hobart Stickmate for I believe $399 at our local Farm King.
Never done stick, but my buddys dad can weld nearly anything if it's metal. He's good :) So I can definately get him to help me out in learning techniques.
With a stick, is it simply plug it in, adjust the settings, and go? I dunno, do stick welders run gas? I dont think they do, but i could be wrong :) Oh Arbo, I assume speak here, solely because this will put the info out here for others to learn from :)
Thanks guys! This is helping!
Pete
OK, No secrets...
I'm running a Lincoln SP125+ (110V). It has its limitations, but when running .035 flux core, it can easily handle 1/4" mild steel. Maybe not in one pass, but if you are willing to bevel and run several passes, there is no problem. We use the same machines at work (Maximum security prison). We use them to weld anything from small stuff, all the way to hanging 400 lb. doors with it. We have had them running all day long and the duty cycle has never kicked on one. As long as the machine has a chance to rest for a few minutes on occasion, they will pretty much run non stop. We haven't had a thug yet that can break the hinges loose. I guess I just get sorta tired of these guys that are always bashing the 110V machines. There is no doubt that the 220V machines have more power in them, but more is not always better. Think about your buddy that needs a welding job done at his house, is he going to have a 220V outlet that you can readily plug into? Not likely. I make a nice second income with my 110V machine, and am darn proud of it. It's a good feeling when you can turn some raw steel into a useful project for someone. I haven't had a dissatisfied customer yet, and all of my work comes from word of mouth. Between working 40 hours in a prison, tending to a small farm, welding, and just trying to keep up with my own projects and family life, it makes for a full week.
I know, I'm rambling again...
I agree with Arbo 100%, Iam using a HH135 and have been very pleased with it and have never had any problems with it. I was working on the bending break project that Dan did, and tried to break the weld I did with the HH135 on 1/4 " material and could not.
Yes, I know that I will not be building anything that will require anything major right away, but love this little machine, and how portable it is. I think the main thing to remember is to make sure you have the right tool for what your trying to do. Just remeber what the limitaions of the machines your looking at are, and always stay within those limits. I know when I get a bigger machine down the road when I get better at welding, I will definatly keep my hh135 for the ease of moving it around.
P.S. since Iam just a novice at welding anyway, I love doing multipasses on thicker stuff and even do several passes on some of the thinner material just for the fun of it.
Rocky D
11-07-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Arbo
OK, No secrets...
I'm running a Lincoln SP125+ (110V). It has its limitations, but when running .035 flux core, it can easily handle 1/4" mild steel. Maybe not in one pass, but if you are willing to bevel and run several passes, there is no problem. We use the same machines at work (Maximum security prison). We use them to weld anything from small stuff, all the way to hanging 400 lb. doors with it. We have had them running all day long and the duty cycle has never kicked on one. As long as the machine has a chance to rest for a few minutes on occasion, they will pretty much run non stop. We haven't had a thug yet that can break the hinges loose. I guess I just get sorta tired of these guys that are always bashing the 110V machines. There is no doubt that the 220V machines have more power in them, but more is not always better. Think about your buddy that needs a welding job done at his house, is he going to have a 220V outlet that you can readily plug into? Not likely. I make a nice second income with my 110V machine, and am darn proud of it. It's a good feeling when you can turn some raw steel into a useful project for someone. I haven't had a dissatisfied customer yet, and all of my work comes from word of mouth. Between working 40 hours in a prison, tending to a small farm, welding, and just trying to keep up with my own projects and family life, it makes for a full week.
I know, I'm rambling again...
Arbo, you're not that guy that came on the old forum, back in April, saying he worked in a prison and wanted a line on emergency rescue cutting equipment, are you?? We thought he was a con and gave him a pretty bad time...:D..guess you can imagine. Never heard from him again...I feel kinda bad about it now, but if he WAS a con....??? :confused:
RFR2212
11-07-2002, 07:47 PM
Arbo-- I definately agree about the portability...
When y'all refer to beveling edges and multiple passes... is that just as it sounds...
an angled/tapered edge, and then layering of beads of weld?
Pete
RFR2212
11-07-2002, 08:05 PM
How does this look for price on a stickmate lx 235ac/160dc:
http://www.forthefarm.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=14&Product_ID=540&CATID=45
I'm starting to like this welder due to the price....
Not to mention, I've got a professional who will teach me all.... Which is a huge benifit...
Once again, this is all if i can get a 220v line :)
Anyone? Stick welders use gas?
Oh, if anyone knows a better place for a stickmate let me know thanks
Pete
Pete,
Stick welders definately don't use gas. As for the price on that machine, I can't help you there. As far as bevels, thats pretty much it. Depending on the thickness, tells you how much of an angle and how many passes it will take to bond and fill the gap.
Rocky,
That was in fact me...You can't chase me away that easily though. I am in charge of buying all of the tools at our prison. I recently got a Hypertherm Powermax 1000, (not exactly for emergency use), but I do have a nice diamond blade gas powered saw that would do wonders in a time of need. Just think Rocky...Keep paying your taxes, and I'll keep Buying! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Rocky D
11-07-2002, 11:23 PM
I don't mind payin' ya, Arbo...just make sure those cons don't use that equipment to get an early out! :D
i just bought a mm175,i owned a lincoln 175+ and hh 120 before that. i prefered the mm because of larger drive rollers and quick change features of the rollers. i use mostly .045 fluxcore and have never had a weld failure welding steel to 1/4 in and can not see why it wouldn't weld 5/16 as my lincoln of the same power did that. it also has a higher wire feed speed than the lincoln. the mm 175 does a bueatiful weld with fluxcore on steel without grinding rust or paint,just burn the **** out of it. i also own a lincoln 300 powermig another welder i love, very,very nice pulse on pulse with aluminum and a push pull 50 foot gun. i paid 609 for the mm in alaska and about 4g for the lincoln in seattle
Rocky,
I failed to say that the control of those tools is also my responsibility. I depend on alot of other people to do their job, but we keep a pretty good handle on things. I have about 12,000 tools dispersed in almost 100 different areas of the institution. We inventory them three times a day on shadow boards to be sure that nothing is missing. Quite a job...
Arbo
Al T.
11-08-2002, 08:44 AM
RFR2212
That's a good price you found with free shipping.
The stick welders do not need external gas because the sticks have flux that turns into gas as they melt down. Good for outdoor work where its windy.
Pete,
I am attaching a drawing to show an example of what a bevel and multi-pass process may look like. When using a stick welder or flux core wire, you must remove the slag from your welds before running the next pass. I hope this makes it a little clearer for you.