Metal dripping

[Al T.]

Hi guys,
I haven't had success in doing a vertical up weld yet, after the nozzle gets out of the way so I can see the results, gravity has pulled away the metal into a drip before freezing. I'm more successful at vertical down welds, I guess because its easier to see what is going on.

I finished the main work on my welding cart, and my angle grinder was needed more than once to make it look decent. I'll post some pictures in a couple of days to show my carts functionallity.

Any suggestions?
.030 steel, HH175 on #3 setting, 20ipm speed, 25%CO, 1/8 * 1 inch angle.

[Arbo]

Al,

I used to have the same problem. (and still do sometimes)

I try to keep the tip pointed upward and slightly in under the puddle. It seems that the forward motion of the wire helps to keep the puddle from dripping away. As you mention, vertical down is easier. I still try to keep the gun in the same position, for the same reason. Down will not give as good penetration, but will be a smoother, flatter bead. Good luck.

[Al T.]

Thanks Arbo,
I'll keep practicing, its like learning how the write all over again.

[Dan]

Originally posted by Al T.
Hi guys,
I haven't had success in doing a vertical up weld yet, after the nozzle gets out of the way so I can see the results, gravity has pulled away the metal into a drip before freezing. I'm more successful at vertical down welds, I guess because its easier to see what is going on.

I finished the main work on my welding cart, and my angle grinder was needed more than once to make it look decent. I'll post some pictures in a couple of days to show my carts functionallity.

Any suggestions?
.030 steel, HH175 on #3 setting, 20ipm speed, 25%CO, 1/8 * 1 inch angle.

Al T

First of all, there should be no need to weld out of position on a welding cart for a HH 175. You should be able to reposition the cart so that you welds are occuring in a flat position. Ok , so most of your fillets will actually be in the horizontal position. I ve seen quite a few novice weldors (guys I work with) actually not stop and think about the fact the project is actually small enough to reposition, and they start welding quite a few joints out of position when it isn t needed. Finally though, except for one pig headed guy, they have caught on and reposition there work.

Now to address your vertical weld problem. First of all, most times it is ok to weld vertical down on 1/8" material. However, I am not a fan of welding down hill unless the material is thin ga sheet metal. So the first thing I would try would be dropping the voltage down to selection #2, which will make your weld puddle less fluid and easier to control. Of course this should require an increase in the wire speed, because of how the HH 175 is designed. Maybe some where between 30 and 40. Like Arbo stated drop the gun angle. Drop it about 10 to 15 degrees off 90 degrees from you work peice. So for vertical up you want to be pushing the weld puddle. In the vertical position the direction of travel is reversed for the increasing or decreasing of weld bead penetration. For example, Pulling the weld will be vertical down which results in shallower penetration, because your off to the races against good old gravity. Now you aren t going to able to just travel straight up without some type of oscillation. I don t like just a side to side motion because this going to make it difficult to guarantee good fusion to the root of the weld. Plus, it has a tendency to make the weld bead a little fat (pile) in the center of the weld. Im posting two suggested oscillations to try. The examples don t show it but the start of both should be a side to side motion so that you create a shelf for the weld puddle. Also, the end of the weld bead should have a side to side motion on it to fill in the crater at the end. Im not recommending one over the other give them both a try and see what you think.

[Dan]

Suggestion # 2

[Arbo]

Dan,

Your second post with the round oscillation is my method of choice. It is obvious that you have had alot more training in this than I. I pretty much taught myself over the years, and asked alot of questions along the way. Thanks for helping out with those drawings.

Arbo:)

[Rocky D]

This is my favorite stroke...

[Al T.]

Great suggestions, I'll try them all.

Dan,
Your right about the out of position welding, there was no need to do vertical. I should have taken a moment and repositioned. Hopefully I'll remember to change my habits.

My welding cart design is a bit unusual, compared to the norm. Being disabled, I needed to have all my tools, welder, supplies, clamps, jigs, two tanks, apron and helmuts in a single cart. Options include 4 shelves, 1 shelf slides left and right so its easy to reach back items, a front sliding table that has holders and space for hand tools, holes for torch, no-stick paste, magnetic catch for wire snips so they don't fall on the floor giving my scooters flats and cable hanger. I also mounted a adjustable magnetic spot light that I got from Lowes made by Delta.

I'll take some pictures tonight if you all want to see it.

Thanks again for all your advice.

[Royal Fe]

Sounds awsome! Looking forward to the Pics.

[Mowjunk]

Al T, I'd like to see the pictures. Sounds like a really nice table with a lot of thought put into it.

[Al T.]

Welding Cart with an attitude,

My design was influenced by my need to sit down while I am welding. I needed lots of space and room to add additional hangers and shelves as the need adrises and room to change later on. It is made from 1" by 1/8 inch angle iron and wheels are 3-inch swivels (4 inch would be better).

The Mig cable is delicate and needed a hanger that would not kink it and is held at the correct level so as not to drag on the floor and be as light to hold as possible. The HH175 is recessed back about 6 inches so if the cart gets pushed against a wall it will not kink the cable. There is also enough room to add a 180SD if Santa is good to me.

The front pull out table was needed for hand tools that would normally clog up my work area. Torch holder and magnetic catch for wire snips that usually wind in my tires and room for any changes later.

The center pullout shelf which I will add sides to later, holds short and skinny items while the fixed bottom shelf for heavier taller items.

The top shelf, which might acquire sides, is for storage and future use

Two tanks in the back, 25%CO and 100% Argon 60 CF are held with chains, I will add two more chains in a couple of days. The gauge is easily viewed for flow from the front of the cart.

Just to keep things inexpensive and strong I used Rebarb for rear and front hangers, they are for work cable, leather apron and 2 helmets. On the 2 front hangers I keep a couple of C clamps and a couple of 90-degree jigs for doing inside and outside welds on various materials. I got the idea from you guys in an earlier email. They are great tools to have.

I added a small tool rack on the front top to be storage for other hand tools.

[Al T.]

Cylinder placement.

[Al T.]

Left side.

[Al T.]

Right side.

[Al T.]

90 degree jig.

[Al T.]

90 degree jig again.

Sorry about the quality of the pictures.

[R. Nelson]

Originally posted by Dan
Suggestion # 2 I too prefer the method as demonstrated in #2.

[GWOL]

AI T,

That is one cool looking welding cart. Iam not even sure if welding cart is a good name for it. I think its in a different catagory all together.

Thanks for the pictures. Very neat way to show how creative you can be with something most people think is something so simple.

[Rocky D]

You did a more than excellent job on that cart, Al. Did you have to build it all sitting down? A lot of my work is sitting...mostly heliarc, but I don't think I could build a cart like you did, sitting.

Thanks for sharing.

[Royal Fe]

Al T.
Your cart is inspiring! How did you make the shelf slide out, is it 3/4 plywood mounted with angle? What a great idea!

What is the white material on the bottom?

[Al T.]

Well that's very kind of you to say so guys. I really enjoy creating and building. I don't think I'll ever get to the level that I have seen from you guys. But it shows that any job can always be done a little better. Main thing is to enjoy it, why else would I sit in a basement getting dirty during my free time.

Rocky D, you said:
**Did you have to build it all sitting down? A lot of my work is sitting...mostly heliarc, but I don't think I could build a cart like you did, sitting. **


I have had 5 hip replacements in the last 15 years, and now I can only stand up for a couple of minutes before the pain forces me down. So sitting is my only option, its just lower than standing and always keeps me thinking how to get my projects done. Everyone has a story to tell, that's mine.


GWOL,
Before I get into design I think about and write down everything that I want and wish it could do. Solve each option using the KISS approach. When I have it worked out I then draw it up and build it. This cart has alot of space for future additions. It can easily be pushed around the shop and is very stable.

Royal Fe, you said:
How did you make the shelf slide out, is it 3/4 plywood mounted with angle? What is the white material on the bottom?


I used scrap 1/2" plywood for both sliding shelves, the front table slides within 1" angle iron welded on edge, the angle is half as long as the plywood. slides easy. The top, middle and bottom shelves are scrap pieces of 3/4" MDF board I had laying around and it sits inside the 1" angle. I going to paint everything because white it not a good color to have so close to welding spatter.

[Rocky D]

Al. YOU are an inspiration! Thanks for sharing.

[Will]

This is much more than a cart...it is more like a welding work station. Nice job!

[Bob]

Al T.
Very nice with lots of useful touches. Can you say more about the torch holder ... In the first pix it looked like maybe just a hole in the shelf, but the torch was resting on the trigger.
I always seem to have trouble finding a place to rest the torch so the cable doesn't pull it off on the floor. So hot wire tip does not burn anything. Last week it was resting fine while I was setting up, then I bumped the cable and spooled out about 2' of wire before I got it stopped (thank goodness it did not arc to anything).
Great Job
Bob

[Al T.]

Bob,
Your right about my torch holder, I should have made the hole smaller so it doesn't set on the trigger. It hasn't turned on yet but you know, that's the famous last words. I'll make the hole bigger to hold the paste container recessed and put a smaller hole for the torch in the middle.

Thanks for reminding me.

[Rocky D]

Originally posted by Al T.
Bob,
Your right about my torch holder, I should have made the hole smaller so it doesn't set on the trigger. It hasn't turned on yet but you know, that's the famous last words. I'll make the hole bigger to hold the paste container recessed and put a smaller hole for the torch in the middle.

Thanks for reminding me.

Here's a little torch holder I made myself...I like it simple...one small tack holds it to the table, so I can move it around. One could probably outfit it with a C-clamp or something. I always set it up so my hand will naturally fall on it while I'm putting something together. That way, I don't have to look for it.....kind like a quick-draw torch.

[Mowjunk]

Originally posted by Rocky D


Here's a little torch holder I made myself...I like it simple...one small tack holds it to the table, so I can move it around. One could probably outfit it with a C-clamp or something. I always set it up so my hand will naturally fall on it while I'm putting something together. That way, I don't have to look for it.....kind like a quick-draw torch.

Rocky D, it's so little, I missed it! Where is it? :D

Just messin' with ya!

[Rocky D]

Originally posted by Mowjunk


Rocky D, it's so little, I missed it! Where is it? :D

Just messin' with ya!


Mow.....:p

[morpheus]

hey Al, I have that same set of mig pliers that you have on your cart. Do yours work ok ?? ... mine are pretty sorry and don't cut the wire hardly at all. sure is a handy design of the thing though. Can do alot of things with them...

- jack

[Al T.]

Your right Morpheus, those mig pliers are only good for maintenance on the gun. My cutter works ok, but its too heavey to do such a repeated job. I purchased a cheap wire stripper/clipper from Radio Shack and lay it down on my magnet. Whenever I need to snip, the little wire piece hits the magnet and stays there. Sears also sells some nice little snippers with cushion handles.

My mig pliers also had grips that always slid off, I glued them on with polyurethane glue. That solved it.

[morpheus]

good idea about the handles Al, I keep having to push mine back on also. hadn't thought about gluing them on. I picked up a cheap pair of cutters too ... works ALOT better than those supposed mig pliers ...

- jack

[Roger]

I have set of MIG pliers that I have tried. Don't like the wire cutters and nozzel cleaner sucks. Ok to remove contact tips and nozzel.

I use old ****s bought long ago for electronics. They are Hunter simiflush side cutters that leave real clean cut. This link shows new version. But any good side cutter works ok.
http://www.huntertools.co.uk/catalog/im160020.htm



Here is better nozzel cleaner.
http://www.welding-direct.com/nozreamtool.html
But I just use a wire brush made for cleaning 1/2" copper tube as they are easy to find and cheap.

[Rocky D]

I picked up a pair like these MIG pliars, called Welper. They look like these here. I've used ****s all my life, untill I found that after a couple of hours of spray arcing, the nozzle would seize onto the gun...these Welpers were the only tool I had that could break it free. Mine cost about $30, and they do a good job, even the cutter.

http://www.welding-direct.com/welderspliers.html

[Al T.]

Rocky D,
Thats the one we are using, we got the cheap one. Its ok for maintanance only. The cutter is hidden from view, can't see it while using it and the nozzle cleaner/reamer removes some nozzle metal if you press too hard. It has its uses.

Thanks Guys,
I ordered an extra gun for my hh175 from:

http://store.yahoo.com/weldingdirect/index.html

It cost half the price from my local place thanks guys for letting me know of this place. $89.48 and free shipping. Its generic but I wanted a separate gun to do aluminum. I already have the teflon liner and the argon tank. Looks like I'll be welding beer cans soon, just kidding. I'd be happy doing 1/8".

[morpheus]

hey Al, let me know how that gun works out on aluminum with your HH175 ... thanks.

- jack

[Al T.]

Be glad to Jack,

After I ordered it, I noticed that it didn't say what size liner and tip came with it. I plan on changing it to teflon and .035 tip but I wanted to know anyway. I emailed them, 1 hour later they emailed me back, .030 liner and tip. Nice fast response!

[morpheus]

cool.

i didn't think you could push aluminum wire 10ft ?

- jack

[Al T.]

Jack,

Rock said it could be done. I just needed to use thicker wire .035 and the stiffer aluminum wire 5356. Also a Teflon liner is needed to help slide it along. TEFLON LINER NUMBER 194014 is the number I got from Rock. Finally it was advised to keep the cable as straight as possible while welding.

Even after all these precautions I still might get jams. I will let you know how I make out.

[morpheus]

ok. I remember Rock saying that now. good luck with it ... I sure hope it works :cool:

- jack

[Al T.]

Update on my extra gun purchase,

The gun I ordered was the M10/H10 compatible, I thought this was correct because the gun accessories kit from Cyberweld states its for M10 or H10 size guns. Wrong one. The plug in end is far too fat to fit in and the trigger connection was the twist on type instead of push on spade type. Picture attached.
Hobart Handler measures, length is 2.14 inches and diameter is .469 inch

I emailed welding-direct.com and within an hour they called me to straighten out my problem. They asked that I send a email with a picture of my plug with measurements. Thank God for email. I look forward to a speedy solution.

Anyone recognize the plug on the left side?

[dysfunction]

Looks like the twist lock plug on my miller. The instructions with the gun say that if you have the connections like yours you cut the shielding, split the wires and put the terminals on

[dysfunction]

Oh lemme know how this resolves. I was looking at their guns a while ago.

[Al T.]

I wish it were that easy, but the diameter of the brass plug is way too big in diameter to fit the HH175. My welder requires a plug that is .469" in diameter.

The new plug is closer to 5/8", it ain't go'na do it without a running start and some vasiline.

Thanks for letting me know its a Miller plug.

I'll keep you guys informed as things happen.

[Roger]

Rock stated in November that HH MIGs and Millermatic Migs use almost the same gun that has different plugs. Welding dealer should have known that if informed it was for HH.

When welding out of position it is arc force that pushes against puddle helping it defiy gravity. Think of it as steam or electrons carrying metal drops and pushing against puddle.

[Al T.]

Roger,
It was my mistake, I ordered it from their internet site so they didn't know I had a HH175. They seem to be a friendly company and have great prices so I do not think I'll have a problem.
Thanks

[Roger]

All they need to do is send correct connector with 2ea 6" wires sticking out from correct pins. You cut off or unplug old connector from trigger leads of new electrode cable. Then install spade connectors as required and join new plug with spade connectors covering with heat shrink tube to insulate spade connections.

They might want old connector back.

[Al T.]

I guess I wasn't clear about my problem. I can change over to spade connectors easily as you said, but its the brass end of the mig hose/cable that is too big in diameter. Its .7 inches in diameter where the hole in the welder is .469 inches. I posted a picture a couple of replies back to show the size difference.

I post again when I get it resolved.

[Rocky D]

Originally posted by Al T.
Update on my extra gun purchase,

The gun I ordered was the M10/H10 compatible, I thought this was correct because the gun accessories kit from Cyberweld states its for M10 or H10 size guns. Wrong one. The plug in end is far too fat to fit in and the trigger connection was the twist on type instead of push on spade type. Picture attached.
Hobart Handler measures, length is 2.14 inches and diameter is .469 inch

I emailed welding-direct.com and within an hour they called me to straighten out my problem. They asked that I send a email with a picture of my plug with measurements. Thank God for email. I look forward to a speedy solution.

Anyone recognize the plug on the left side?

It looks alot like a Miller M-25, could'nt be sure, unless I tried it, tho, Al.

[Al T.]

My new gun is on its way, their tech support called and knew exactly the gun I needed. They shipped it out right away and gave me a RGP# to return the wrong gun.

My advice is to call them when ordering weld guns from them so you get the correct one first time. I found their home page a little vague on which gun is which. Keep in mind I'm new at this and thought I had picked the correct gun.

I'll let you know when I get the gun.