propane instead of acetylene

[jimmyg]

In the past Ive used acetylene rigs and am now looking into getting my own torch. However, I was thinking I might go propane as its easier to come by, tanks are cheap and, to me, it seems a bit safer than acetylene. Ive never used any other fuel gas exc for a very very small amt of brazing w/ a propylene rig. So, for those of you who have a wider range of experience Id like to know what you thought of using propane. Does it differ substantially from acetylene? My application (ag) would be heavy on the heating side with some cutting and only a tiny amt of welding (autogenous only). I might braze w/ it but right now can't think of what context that would be in. Was looking at a Smith outfit MD-510LPT...I suspect this is very good quality but if you have experience w/ it Id be interested in hearing about that too.

[Farmerboy]

I have used propane for nearly 40+ years, now, I have used acetylene,

the flame is not as hot as acetylene is and the point in which the heat is in the flame is a little different,
YOU CAN NOT WELD WITH PROPANE, (or weld good with it),
you can cut, braze, heat.
the cutting tip is different, they say you should use a "T" rated hose, you would probably use a larger tip to braze with than with acetylene, and on the little tips you can blow out the flame easily,

but I would go with propane again, just the savings in tank rent, and the cost is worth the few problems one runs into, I do have an acetylene tank and have used it about 8 times in 20 years fro welding of steel,

my son started out using acetylene, on his truck and soon switched to propane, (he thinks the cuts are a little nicer with acetylene) but not enough to continue to use it. for the cost,

IN cutting you will use a little more O2, with propane, as the flame oxygen ratio is higher with propane. but since most of the oxygen is used in the cut orifice instead of the preheat orifices, I do not think you will see the difference of the run time on a tank of Oxygen.

and both my son and I (son has worked as a professional welder/fabricator for nearly 7 years, and then ran his own scrapping business for the last 3 years), we both like Smith equipment, and the use of propane for the fuel gas, but then we also refill our own tanks out of the farm tanks, which cuts the cost even more over the BBQ tanks).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Added: I looked up that torch kit, and it is similar to two of the units I have, my son started out with one of the lighter duty kits, (he won it in a contest), and we up graded the torch he was using to "Smith Cutting Torch - Standard Duty SC Series" http://www.smithequipment.com/products/pdfpages/page24.pdf
and we have (I think two of the light duty series of torch body's, my sons and I have one on a mini set, and my original had the small body, as in the light duty kits, and a cutting head that would take the medium/heavy duty tips), I still have them all, and all still work fine, I bid on some some on Ebay and bid a low min, and won some of the bids. and it is nice to have the torch in the shop and on the truck and the mini set, and my son has his on his truck, and can run two torches off of it.

[SGS Welding]

I did this.

Big oxy tank,small acetylene tank,20lbs propane tank,made a cart for all 3 bottles.

2 fuel regs ,1 oxy reg with a "y" on the oxy.

2 hoses and 2 torches.

Welding torch connected to acetylene and one leg of the "y"

Cutting torch connected to propane and other leg of "y"

Works well and when the bbq runs out of propane in the middle of cooking that porterhouse steak I have back-up propane!!! nice little bonous!!!

[jimmyg]

Awesome...I did read up on propane, how its difficult to weld w/, uses more O2, etc. However, to me it looked like the advantages out weighted the disadvantages. Honestly, I would only consider welding w/ it as a last resort. The primary jobs are heating and cutting. Once I get a plasma cutter then the cutting part mostly disappears. Anyway, thanx again...

[SGS Welding]

To the best of my knowledge you can't weld with propane ,you can braze weld but you can't weld with it.not sure of the exact reason why but I know you can't.might have something to do with it not getting as hot and the fact that it doesnt sheild the inner cone well enough.(letting the weld get to much oxygen and becoming brittle and weak)Just a guess.

[jimmyg]

The book I used for welding classes talks about propane welding in passing...its mostly a 'why you dont want to go this route' write up. It says the flame structure is the problem, the sides get hotter than the core (center) so theres the distinct danger of undercut/overheating. Si, I think it can be done but its difficult w/ better gases for the purpose.

[Farmerboy]

when trying to weld with propane, it seems to develop a scale on the molten metal that was difficult to work with, or that is what I remember when I tried it, but its been nearly 30 years since I tried to weld with it, the simple of it is I would say just consider it as not usable for welding steel,

[Sberry]

It works for cutting and heating, before plasma we used it a lot, had both types setup and still have a set in my pickup using LP.

[mikecwik]

if youre doing a lot of work and fuel you might consider a gasoline oxy torch? you cant do much beside heat metal and cut ferrous metals. set ups can cost a lot but if you use lots of fuel in your work youll make up the cost quickly enough. i dont do lots of work i bought my setup because its a much safer system to use.

[jimmyg]

It works for cutting and heating, before plasma we used it a lot, had both types setup and still have a set in my pickup using LP.

Well ,those are my main uses anyway esp heating. So, if I get welding all the better if not oh well.

[greywynd]

I got an LP tip a while back for my set, I use it maybe once a week or so. Would I say I like it better? It's different, that I will say, but that's about it. Using it today when it was windy I seemed to have a hard time getting it to light, but I'm still getting used to the pressures and adjustments for it sometimes too.

The flame being longer takes some getting used to, especially in tighter areas, when you are heating a car or truck part for example.

The reason I finally decided to give it a try was a friend had given me an extra 3 tanks of propane, he'd had them filled just before his BBQ died, then the new one they decided to go to natural gas. So, I had a lifetime supply that I figured I try to use up and see what I thought of propane.

I suspect that I'll use it, and swap back and forth as I feel like it. I'll likely add a bracket to the cart for a bottle of it so I have all three on it.

[Farmerboy]

To light in the wind, turn on a touch of oxygen with the propane and then light and adjust, hold the tip down wind, If you just have the propane on, when lighting it will normally blow out if there is any breeze.

[drizler]

I do most of my welding with Arc / Mig and mainly use the tanks for heating and cutting. It seems to work well like that for me. I just bought my own Acy. tank so there is no constant payment for something I rarely use and use a barbecue bottle for my propane needs. Works for me though I personally find propane cutting is harder to keep the cut going. Then I never could cut for crap for whatever reason when it comes to those nice long straight lines:o:o:o.

[ptsideshow]

The only drawback other then the slight ones that have been mentioned. Is about .81pounds of water for each pound of propane burned.
:D

[OneWelder]

I use acetylene in the shop and run propane on service trucks for years.
Propane tanks are a lot lighter
propane cuts rusty metal better

the two piece tips are alot tougher and easy to keep clean when cutting rusty steel

Acetylene will cut alloy steels (dozer cutting edges) cleaner and easier - but propane does alright
My work ranged from 1/8 to 1 1/2 thick I mostly use a # 2 cutting tip
you will want to use a size bigger propane tip than if it was acetylene

propane is a little harder to light until you get use to it- turn way down
- light holding close to your work continue holding close while making coarse flame adj.

[OneWelder]

PTsideshow
i have cut underwater with propane - but do not know about the .81 per pound- please explain

[usmcpop]

PTsideshow
i have cut underwater with propane - but do not know about the .81 per pound- please explain

I think he means that when burning propane, C3H8 + 5O2 --> 3C02 + 4H20 + heat as opposed to 2C2H2 + 5 02 -> 4CO2 + 2H20 and heat or something like that.

Now if you are cutting under water, I doubt that this would concern you very much. :D

[ptsideshow]

I think he means that when burning propane, C3H8 + 5O2 --> 3C02 + 4H20 + heat as opposed to 2C2H2 + 5 02 -> 4CO2 + 2H20 and heat or something like that.

Now if you are cutting under water, I doubt that this would concern you very much. :D

yep that's why the propane powered appliances rust out faster in the area of the burner tray under the burner tray and the exhaust stack.
:eek:

[JMS]

what do I need to run propane instead of acet. on a victor style oxy/acet set up. Besides a tank of propane!

[bandsawguy]

stop by you local welding supplier. When I set mine up I think all I needed was a propane tip.

[Roger]

Buy Victor cutting torch tip made for oxygen propane cutting sized for thickness steel your cutting for your cutting torch model. They are common items available at any welding supply. Make sure you get cutting tip data sheet with your new 2 piece propane cutting tip. This data sheet will list O2 and acetylene or propane regulator set pressure for each size cutting tip and what size tip is used for given thickness steel.

In USA fuel hose rated for all fuel gases is "T" grade while "RM" grade hose is for acetylene only. Hose grade is printed on hose. Many have reported using RM grade hose for years with propane and will say it again after this post.

Unlike acetylene propane can be safely used at pressures above 15PSI without danger of exploding.

If your acetylene regulator has CGA 510 inlet fitting it will mate with propane cylinder valve used on 20, 30, 60, 120 pound propane cylinders. MC and B acetylene cylinders use different CGA fitting but regulator adapters are available at welding supply. Victor acetylene regulators are compatible with using propane.

[Sberry]

Dam Roger, that is so clear even I could understand it.

[Sberry]

BTW, somewhere along the line I found a gas reg I use on mine for LP, has only one gage for working pressure.

[Roger]

If I was into heavy oxy propane cutting I would use cutting torch made for propane. This is a victor link but Smith, Harris, and others also make cutting torches with injector mixer. Large propane tank and LOX oxygen supply and your set up for cutting thick steel all day.

http://www.thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_346_122-124_65-2007.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_welding_and_cutting

[Claypool]

Could you tell the board how to set up a refill from you're farm tank. I asked the locall truck driver ( Refill Farm tanks) and he seemed to say it wasn't worth it for Barb. Grill refills. I didn't say any thing about running a branch line to the barn for new shooting range room and/or setting up a torch / tanks @ the barn. Thanks.
SEE YUW....CLAYPOOL:cool:

[ptsideshow]

To refill tanks, you need a liquid line/hose with the very expensive fill valve assembly like when the fill the BBQ tanks. That's why he was saying it is expensive and not worth it for a BBQ tank.

I have used one since the changed over to the new op valves in the new tanks.

We use to fill the hot air balloon tanks and it was no big deal from a 500 gal pig at the owner house.

If you are just talking about running more than one line from your large pig to multiple locations for use.

You may want to check for any local codes ordinances. In your area.

Here is a web site that will have lots of good info.
Propane 101.com (http://www.propane101.com/index.htm)

[Sberry]

You can pipe gas as far as you can afford the pipe, your distributor should be able to help but some are not very sharp. You can fill tanks but as was said you need to add a liquid tap to the pig, which can be done, need fittings and bottles can be bled on but there is some waste, it also required some understanding of gasses. Ideally is to have a pump. Mine is a simple hand one, takes a couple of minutes to fill a 20#, about 30 or 40 strokes.
For a torch you really need to run right from a bottle with own regulator or would need to be tapped ahead of the secondary reg.

[vwguy3]

Transfilling can be done without a pump but is not usually done because you are relying on tank pressure alone.
By the time you figure what it would cost to have the tank emptied,plumbed for liquid withdrawal and the pump & related equipment it would be much cheaper to have the smaller tank filled for you.