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View Full Version : 220V Extension Cord - How Long?



alienbogey
09-24-2008, 11:37 AM
I'm a welding newbie who has been looking for a Mig welder for learning to weld and get a few projects done.

Like many, my garage only has 110 because when I built it, like a fool, I didn't plan ahead and run another cable for 220.

However, the good news is that I have 50 amp service 125' away at an RV pad I put in for my parents.

So, finally, the question: Can I run 125' of extension cord from the source to the garage and not hurt the equipment?

If it helps, I'm looking at a used package of a Millermatic 175 that includes 50' of 10/3 extension cord already.

Thanks in advance.

robsd
09-24-2008, 12:55 PM
It should work fine. If you are cheap like me I would look at the largest romex type solid wire I could find. Maybe 8, not sure, probably would work since you are probably not maxing out the amperage on the machine. When done roll it up in a 4' loop and hand it on the wall.

A larger multi strand wire is gonna cost ya. Isn't that stuff running near a buck a foot and you need 375'.

For my sticks I run 10ga with no problems, but I don't run them maxed out and the cord is only 30' long.

Rob

Oops, reread that last sentence, you only need 225', I'd certainly use that 10/3 the last 50'.

Wyoming
09-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Attached or separate garage? How difficult would it be to run another circuit in? Romax isn't designed for anything other than permanent installation...though that doesn't stop some from using it otherwise.

It may be cheaper to run another service in and be done with it than spending almost the same amount, or more, on an extension cord you wouldn't need if you did...and you already have an extension cord for those times you need one. The Owner's Manual for your machine lists a maximum recommended input conductor length of 66'.

MAC702
09-24-2008, 02:15 PM
NM cable (Romex) is illegal for extension cords for a good reason. Please don't do that.

How far is the garage from the main panel where the existing 120V circuit comes from, and what size wires are there now?

alienbogey
09-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the replies. More info:

It's a detached garage. 8 gauge cable is underground from the house main panel to a sub-panel in the garage about 75 feet away.

The sub panel has two 30 amp breakers ganged together, each accepting one wire from the cable (black and red) and applying it to the bus. On the other side of the bus are four breakers. One 20 amp wired to outlets, one 15 amp wired for lights.

There are two spare breakers on the bus, one 20A and the other 15A.

Here's the welding equipment for sale $700 firm:

Millermatic 175, 230 volt mig welder with leads and gas gauges.
Accessories available:
cart, #3 80 cu ft bottle (32in x 6.6in) part full with steelmix, leather cape and bib, helmet, magnets, mig pliers, slag hammer, contact tips, flux core wire, steel wire, 50 ft yellow jacket 10-3 extention cord with 50 amp 250 volt plug, 30 amp breaker (for cutler breaker box)
$500 is bottom price for welder, leads and gas gauges.
Accessories available at additional cost. Accessories prices negotiable. If interested in the whole set up, I'll take $700 firm.

Again, I've never welded, always wanted to be able to, I have a few projects in mind (fixing my utility trailer, for example) and just assumed I'd look around for a 110V unit, but I came across this package deal and figured that 220 must be twice as good as 110, right? ( <<<<=joke )

Questions:

1. Could a 220v outlet be wired from the current garage sub-panel?

2. The Millermatic 175 package - Good deal? So-so deal?

Thanks again.

Broccoli1
09-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Post up a Pick of the Box- but is sounds like it is possible.

MAC702
09-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Looks like you already have 240V in the garage, just not wired from its subpanel! The cable coming in has 3 wires or 4 wires? IOW, Does it have a white AND bare/green or just one of those? Hopefully there is also a ground rod for this subpanel as well.

alienbogey
09-24-2008, 08:18 PM
Here's a picture of the panel with the cover pulled off.

As you can see the 8 gauge cable has a red, a black, a white to the neutral bar and a green to the ground bar. There is also a thick bare copper wire which is coming from the grounding rod.




Any opinions on whether the package is a good deal?

wmgeorge
09-24-2008, 09:34 PM
Here's a picture of the panel with the cover pulled off.

As you can see the 8 gauge cable has a red, a black, a white to the neutral bar and a green to the ground bar. There is also a thick bare copper wire which is coming from the grounding rod.




Any opinions on whether the package is a good deal?

It does not look like #8 to me, perhaps #10 and that is why they have 30 amp breakers. I'm not sure what a Miller 175 takes for current draw, maybe a 20 amp would do it... wish I could see the picture and type at the same time!
Edit: I don't see room for another breaker anyway. I see what looks like a GFI, and 3 other 120 volt breakers? What are they feeding? I could see one for lights, another for??

Mac, what do you think?

MAC702
09-24-2008, 09:43 PM
It could be #8, hard to tell from here. But that is an empty two spaces below the main breaker, isn't it? Even without replacing some of them with tandem breakers, you should be able to fit a 20A two-pole breaker in there, which is all you need for a MM175. A one-man shop shouldn't blow the main.

alienbogey
09-24-2008, 11:11 PM
It's 8 wire, I read it on the casing.

alienbogey
09-25-2008, 12:02 AM
Good deal or not, the welding package sold. :mad:

Oh, well, I'm in no hurry, and if I can figure out how easy/hard it would be to add 220 to the garage I'll be ahead.

wmgeorge
09-25-2008, 07:55 AM
Good deal or not, the welding package sold. :mad:

Oh, well, I'm in no hurry, and if I can figure out how easy/hard it would be to add 220 to the garage I'll be ahead.

I'm not familiar with that panel or what size breaker is on the other end. But you could replace that main 30 amp if it is #8 with up to a 60 amp depending on the rating and type of underground burial.
If its just conduit, and above ground 40 amps. Then move the 30 amp down and call it your welder circuit. It could be the other end has a larger breaker and they put a 30 in because that way the garage breaker would trip first?

Lots and lots of used tools and welders now coming on Craigslist... people needing cash. Sad state of affairs.

Sberry
09-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Is this feed from a double pole breaker at the house?

MAC702
09-25-2008, 08:19 PM
I'm thinking it was originally 30A on larger #8 wire to help the voltage drop at that distance, and I would not increase it beyond a 40A breaker, which is probably the limit for #8 when you factor in the types of connections at either end.

Make sure of Cary's question, too.

ace4059
09-25-2008, 09:19 PM
OP,
I sent you a PM about a cheap miller welder for sale.

Broccoli1
09-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Attached or separate garage? How difficult would it be to run another circuit in? Romax isn't designed for anything other than permanent installation...though that doesn't stop some from using it otherwise.

It may be cheaper to run another service in and be done with it than spending almost the same amount, or more, on an extension cord you wouldn't need if you did...and you already have an extension cord for those times you need one. The Owner's Manual for your machine lists a maximum recommended input conductor length of 66'.

ROY,

I think that is the Maximum length when using the MINimum conductor size.

Wyoming
09-26-2008, 12:55 PM
ROY,

I think that is the Maximum length when using the MINimum conductor size.

Sounds right Eddie, but I'd still look into installing 220 instead of making an extension cord...especially if I already had an extension cord like this guy. Might as well spend the bucks and be done with the jury rigging. Also, looks like its a simple matter of throwing in another breaker to obtain 220v.

Broccoli1
09-26-2008, 01:22 PM
Absolutely- looks like he'll be able to wire up a 240v in da geerage.:D

Ohio Mike
09-26-2008, 04:34 PM
It will also be much cheaper than buying 125+' of drop cord.

Sberry
09-26-2008, 04:47 PM
Is the green a 10 wire or better? If this is piped all the way a guy could pull 2 new conductors? Since its 8 wire it will be sufficient for a small machine though, one of the benefits of the 180 class. Same for the Maxstars, make up for the extra cost by not having to up wire in some cases. I wouldn't be spending on a cord either, would fix the premise wiring before I did that.

alienbogey
09-27-2008, 12:32 PM
Sorry for the delay, I was out of town for a couple of days.

The garage power is fed from the house panel with two 30 amp breakers ganged together.

The cable to the detached garage is buried.

Ace: Thanks for the link, looks like that one is sold.

It looks like a guy can buy all the Millermatic 180's he wants on eBay for $773 shipped.

I'm in no big rush, I'll keep watching craigslist for a good package deal.

Sberry
09-27-2008, 01:47 PM
I like you clarified cable, that is a ton of info in one statement.

Sberry
09-27-2008, 01:51 PM
Get a piece of wire 12 or better to where you want the outlet, I like 10 for this and a welder recept and run it to the main lugs on that panel and you are good to go.

Sberry
09-27-2008, 03:35 PM
This is a prime niche for these new welders. A 180 class feeder or Maxstar allow to do the work without electric upgrade. It was suggested a used AC/DC as an option, yes I could buy that and even go so far as to say that seeing a 50A breaker ahead of this wire wouldn't particularly scare me if I had to do some limited stick welding but this is a poster case for the new small machine (20A demand), makes this electric service is adequate for a hobby shop.

treborly
09-27-2008, 04:47 PM
Sorry for the delay, I was out of town for a couple of days.

The garage power is fed from the house panel with two 30 amp breakers ganged together.

The cable to the detached garage is buried.

Ace: Thanks for the link, looks like that one is sold.

It looks like a guy can buy all the Millermatic 180's he wants on eBay for $773 shipped.

I'm in no big rush, I'll keep watching craigslist for a good package deal.

shoulda known before. My HH187 cost me 1400 bucks at TSC!

wmgeorge
09-29-2008, 06:28 PM
shoulda known before. My HH187 cost me 1400 bucks at TSC!

:) The flier I got in the mail last week has them on sale for $599!

tedster
10-01-2008, 11:48 PM
i have a 80ft. run from the house to garage with 10/3 am running a compressor off it and a stick welder on 30amp circuit (NOT AT THE SAME TIME)and i just built an 8/3 25ft EXT. for my HH187 and it works just fine don't dim the lights are anything,I actually went right to allphase electric and got 8/3 SO for $1.40 a ft. thats what menards wanted for 10/3 SO bought the plugs from
lowes the plugs for the male end was $42.00 at allphase electric VS. $12.00
at lowes, Miller Electric told me i could us 10/3 on a 75ft ext. cord but with the house being a little over 80ft. running with 10/3, I built mine out of 8/3 SO just to be on the safe side and it works fine.............Ted

ace4059
10-02-2008, 01:03 AM
shoulda known before. My HH187 cost me 1400 bucks at TSC!

HOLY CRAP :eek:

BillDaCatt
10-02-2008, 07:50 AM
:) The flier I got in the mail last week has them on sale for $599!


HOLY CRAP :eek:

I guess you guys missed the fact that Treborly is in Canada. :D
Prices are a bit higher there. Though considering their dollar is stronger, I'm not sure why.

- BDC

JalopyBldr
10-05-2008, 10:07 AM
I guess you guys missed the fact that Treborly is in Canada. :D
Prices are a bit higher there. Though considering their dollar is stronger, I'm not sure why.

- BDC

But 2-1/2X as much??????? I bought my HH187 at TSC on sale about 2-1/2 years ago for $525.00 USD.

MAC702
10-09-2008, 06:12 AM
Is it possible to plug a 220v outlet from the sub-panel of garage?

Are you asking about the OP's subpanel and garage or yours? If yours, you should start a new thread and tell us more information about your subpanel. A pic is extremely helpful.

EDIT: Sorry guys, IT'S A SPAM POST. I'm reporting it...
Big Clue: Dumb question with a nicely link-laden signature...

treborly
10-12-2008, 07:04 PM
:) The flier I got in the mail last week has them on sale for $599!


HOLY CRAP :eek:


I guess you guys missed the fact that Treborly is in Canada. :D
Prices are a bit higher there. Though considering their dollar is stronger, I'm not sure why.

- BDC

ya, i thought they screwed me. It came with a cart too though, so it might have bumped the price up a bit.

I still think they messed up the price. I asked the guy how much the hh187 was (it didnt have a price) He goes "its $650" .Then he double checks and says its like $800 or something. Then i go to pay, and the cashier tell me its $1400. SO they probly screwed up.


i got the bill still, its pretty faded (*******s). I should go back and see if its really 1400.

In the end, its kinda my fault too,not really knowing how much it "should" be.

wmgeorge
10-15-2008, 08:24 AM
ya, i thought they screwed me. It came with a cart too though, so it might have bumped the price up a bit.

I still think they messed up the price. I asked the guy how much the hh187 was (it didnt have a price) He goes "its $650" .Then he double checks and says its like $800 or something. Then i go to pay, and the cashier tell me its $1400. SO they probly screwed up.


i got the bill still, its pretty faded (*******s). I should go back and see if its really 1400.

In the end, its kinda my fault too,not really knowing how much it "should" be.

Gee... The cart should of added maybe $100-150 to the total, so you would be paying $700-800 bucks. I think Canadian dollar is pretty close to USD in todays economy. I'd go back and complain, or return the welder.

treborly
10-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Gee... The cart should of added maybe $100-150 to the total, so you would be paying $700-800 bucks. I think Canadian dollar is pretty close to USD in todays economy. I'd go back and complain, or return the welder.

well, i contacted them, they said the price is $1000 now, it was a few hundred bucks more before. So that was the price.