weard lincon

[migwelder05]

anyone have clue what this is? i never seen anything like it before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Lincoln-Arc-Welder_W0QQitemZ120308873039QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em120308873039&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ebayphotohosting

[Hotfoot]

That's a "Dildo 5000"...You can't use it , because its a three phase machine. Plenty of them still in use! (Some call it a "Lincoln Torpedo"):)

[moya034]

I believe that is a motor/generator machine as opposed to a transformer based machines.

[migwelder05]

That's a "Dildo 5000"...You can't use it , because its a three phase machine. Plenty of them still in use! (Some call it a "Lincoln Torpedo"):)

your not serious right?

[Sberry]

I worked for an Ironworking contractor that bought several of them from a defunct school or upgrade, some deal like that. They worked good. They were perfect for what he was doing.

[Krunch]

I don't understand what the "3600 RPM" refers to in the ebay description. :confused:

Do welding machines rotate?

[migwelder05]

idk the machine looks like it could fly if it wanted to but it wouldn't get very far im sure there heavy.

[MAC702]

I don't understand what the "3600 RPM" refers to in the ebay description. :confused:

Do welding machines rotate?

This one does, just like one powered by a gas or diesel engine on the back of a service truck, only it's powered by a big 3-phase motor tied to the shaft of the DC generator. Very common before transformer machines became feasible.

[dda52]

Its a Lincoln DC 250 MK. Basically it is the welding generator of the SA series engine drives set up with a three phase motor. There are supposedly some single phase ones out there somewhere. They are good machines if they work.

[Krunch]

Interesting...I guess it never occurred to me to use an electric motor to drive a generator (to power a motor to drive a generator to power a motor to drive a generator)... :eek:

[Zrexxer]

Interesting...I guess it never occurred to me to use an electric motor to drive a generatorA generator is a generator; it doesn't care if there's a gasoline engine, an electric motor, or a waterwheel driving it. I've never used one of these, but from what I've heard they're supposed to be a really smooth pure DC arc. I guess just like an SA-200 without the noise :D

[dda52]

Oh, they can get plenty loud. With all thaat junk inside spinning at 3600 rpm's, they get loud and whiney. Add some dust and a bad bearing and it can be a screamer.......:eek::rolleyes: But, they are just like running an SA.

[Krunch]

A generator is a generator; it doesn't care if there's a gasoline engine, an electric motor, or a waterwheel driving it.

I understand that. Maybe I wasn't clear. What puzzled me is that a generator is basically nothing more than an electric motor that's being driven by some power source (waterwheel, gerbils, whatever) and vice versa...an electric motor is nothing more than a generator that has had some electricity applied to it (off the power grid, Uncle Fester's teeth, etc.) Motors and generators are basically they same thing, just mirror images of each other.

So it seemed kind of dumb to me to USE electricity to RUN a motor to DRIVE a generator to produce...ELECTRICITY. Kind of wasteful and inefficient, what with all the friction, noise, heat and other losses. I didn't realize that a transformer-based welding machine wasn't something that's been around forever.

It reminds me of a story my Dad told of a paper mill that he ran back in the 1950s. The operating engineer called him in the middle of the night and said, "The steam engine is running backwards but there is no fire in the boiler!" My Dad went to the mill figuring he was going to have to fire the guy for drinking on the job...but by golly, the steam engine WAS running backwards...and there was no head of steam!

Well, they scratched their heads and looked around and finally figured it out. The steam engine was linked in tandem with a water wheel, so that when the river ran low and they couldn't get power from the water wheel, they could fire up the steam engine to generate electricity and have power to run their long line shafts, etc. Well, something went whacky (I may not be remembering this exactly right, and my Dad has passed on now, so bear with me) but there was water running over the water wheel and turning it, and that converted the electric motor that was linked to the water wheel shaft into a GENERATOR...which sent current to the idle GENERATOR on the steam engine, which turned THAT generator into a MOTOR...which drove the steam engine BACKWARDS (I forget whether it was a piston steam engine or turbine steam engine)...whatever, but I remember my Dad said it made the hair on the back of his neck stand up to see that steam engine turning backwards in the middle of the night when there was no fire and no steam...:eek:

Not to go 17 MILES off topic!

Edit: The waterwheel was a turbine. And I think the steam engine was piston type. The waterwheel in question was filmed in one of "The Perils of Pauline" silent pictures of the old days. (That old film of the gal tied down to the railroad tracks was filmed just upriver of there.)

[TozziWelding]

A generator is a generator; it doesn't care if there's a gasoline engine, an electric motor, or a waterwheel driving it. I've never used one of these, but from what I've heard they're supposed to be a really smooth pure DC arc. I guess just like an SA-200 without the noise :D

10-4 on that, plenty of them running off tractors and old truck motors burning more rods than most of us:D

[johnboy1234]

Hi chaps .I have just purchessed one of these welders .I am going to use it as a tig welder .They say this type of welder is very good for tig as they have a very fine setting for tig .Has eneyone else used one of these welders .they go back a few years .regards john:)

[enlpck]

Have one in the shop. Got a lot of use until recently... It needs some love (Failed megger test. Also needs bearings), but will eventually be back in service.

VERY nice machines to work with, if you can take the noise. You do want to work the voltage and heat controls over the entire range periodically to keep them clean. Also need to watch the brushes, brush holders and commutator, periodically blow the dust out of the top end, and keep the bearings greased (DON'T overgrease, or it gets all over the place and will lead to problems).

They are a nice TIG machine, but you will either need to scratch in or use a starter. Do you have one with the remote current control?

[Tinkertech]

Used a similar unit to burn DC stick and was a very smooth burning supply voltage which was nice when welding in rusty tanks and hoppers with 7018 hi low rod . Used in a strip mine the noise was not noticed and the 3 phase results in a clean power DC with a lot less ripple compared to single phase ..also draws less current running at 440 industrial power ..3 phase 440 it totally industrial power you wont find it in any domestic use.

[Sberry]

What puzzled me is that a generator is basically nothing more than an electric motor that's being driven by some power source (waterwheel, gerbils, whatever) and vice versa...an electric motor is nothing more than a generator that has had some electricity applied to it (off the power grid, Uncle Fester's teeth, etc.) Motors and generators are basically they same thing, just mirror images of each other.

So it seemed kind of dumb to me to USE electricity to RUN a motor to DRIVE a generator to produce...ELECTRICITY.
Remember there is a difference here, its using an AC motor to drive a DC generator.

[FusionKing]

So it seemed kind of dumb to me to USE electricity to RUN a motor to DRIVE a generator to produce...ELECTRICITY. Kind of wasteful and inefficient, what with all the friction, noise, heat and other losses. I didn't realize that a transformer-based welding machine wasn't something that's been around forever.

WRONG:eek:...There HAS been transformer welders around forever!!!
BUT the reason they built this doesn't have anything to do with that...it's because they welded SO MUCH BETTER than a transformer welder!
Screw efficient.... it's all about that SWEET ARC and not getting choked to death with exhaust fumes while indoors, plus being three phase they were somewhat efficient:cool:

[johnboy1234]

Have one in the shop. Got a lot of use until recently... It needs some love (Failed megger test. Also needs bearings), but will eventually be back in service.

VERY nice machines to work with, if you can take the noise. You do want to work the voltage and heat controls over the entire range periodically to keep them clean. Also need to watch the brushes, brush holders and commutator, periodically blow the dust out of the top end, and keep the bearings greased (DON'T overgrease, or it gets all over the place and will lead to problems).

They are a nice TIG machine, but you will either need to scratch in or use a starter. Do you have one with the remote current control?

Yes i have a starter with the Machine you move the leaver up and the welder starts then you push the reset button and move the leaver to the bottom position and you are away to weld .Have noted what you have told me .Kind regards john

[johnboy1234]

Could you tell me what the setting would roughly be for the tig please .Kind regards John:)

[Krunch]

Remember there is a difference here, its using an AC motor to drive a DC generator.

Hmmm...now I'm beginning to see some method behind the madness.

Did they do this because rectifier-based DC welding machines didn't exist yet?

[metalmeltr]

Anyone COULD use this welder they would need a generator or rotary converter though.

[usmcpop]

Selenium rectifiers date from the early 30's but the reliability and cost were certainly factors. Practical AC welders came about in the latter 1920's and the selenium and diode rectifiers were later than that.

http://www.millerwelds.com/about/companyinfo.html

Have a look around here: http://www.weldinghistory.org/

[johnboy1234]

Would some one have a workshop manual for the welder.ie if i could have a copy will pay for copy. Seams to run well a little noisey but has the fine adjustments for Tig welding .Kind regards john :)

[johnboy1234]

First of all has anyone got one of these welders ? Could you email me johnschicker@clear.net.nz .Many thanks ....john :)

[hmburner]

I bought one of these welders a while back for twenty bucks to use as a tig machine. Not having three phase in the shop,i converted it to engine driven since the generator is self exiting and use the existing motor as a big flywheel. It is kind of and antique but runs a really smooth arc in stick and makes a good little tig though the controls are a bit touchy (could be due to age/dirt). I know this was a lot of work to convert and old welder,but i did it to prove to the other so called welders that work for us that there is something else out there other than a point and squirt (mig)

Bill

[gda]

I know this won't help much, but we had two rows of these in the stick welding room at my vocational school back in 1980-81. Got me a cert using one of these. It ran the 7018 pretty good. Then, I joined the AF and didn't get to wield my mad skills.:) I haven't seen a machine like that since I left the votech.

[MPK]

I remember 65 years ago the blacksmith in my home town had one. It was electric motor powered.

[johnboy1234]

Hi to all going to start tig welding with this type of welder .so will keep you informed on how it preforms .Regards john:)

[acwd1950]

I got one of these machines and its a sweet azz machine. you can forgive the noise it makes for the weld you can make with it. Mine has the outlet for the Lintrol, which I wish I had but dont. You can still get a manual for these machines off of the Lincoln website or you use to be able to.

Steve

[johnboy1234]

Hi Steve
could you please tell me what the LINCON WELDER is called as i will try and get some info from the makers .Regards john

[Zrexxer]

Hi Steve
could you please tell me what the LINCON WELDER is called as i will try and get some info from the makers .Regards johnNot sure what information you're looking for - the owner's manual is out there for the reading. Here's the link to it:

http://content.lincolnelectric.com//pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM132.pdf

[Timinmb]

They had welders like those at the school I went to. There have been a number of those kinds of designs over the years where an electric motor drives a generator. Dynamotor is what I believe they call that basic design. I've seen 12v dc motors running 120 v ac 60 hz alternators in field equipment, single phase motors on electric trains running 3 phase generators to power 3 phase dirve motors to increase torque, dc motors powered off huge banks of wet cells to provide backup power to run dc motors that drive generators that generate the old approx 90 volt ringer voltage on the phone system and the electric motor driven welding generators we are discussing here. There's all sorts of interesting contraptions used in industry over the years.

[acwd1950]

There are different models of those machines. Mine is a SAE 200J. You will need the code number off of the machine. Its located between the voltage and amperage controls at the top of the plate. With that number you can find the manual. If you got the code number IM me with it and I can get you the link to the manual. They were called all kinds of names, fire hydrant or plug welders, coffee grinders,and so on. I call mine R2D2 from Starwars.

Steve
P.S. Post a pic of it if you got one, thanks

[johnboy1234]

There are different models of those machines. Mine is a SAE 200J. You will need the code number off of the machine. Its located between the voltage and amperage controls at the top of the plate. With that number you can find the manual. If you got the code number IM me with it and I can get you the link to the manual. They were called all kinds of names, fire hydrant or plug welders, coffee grinders,and so on. I call mine R2D2 from Starwars.

Steve
P.S. Post a pic of it if you got one, thanks

Steve have sent a pm as regards photo of Starwars welder ......john from new zealand :)

[acwd1950]

John,
PM sent

Steve

[johnboy1234]

Hi Steve have sent you three photos of the welder .Tell me is it the same as you have got over there in the usa .Regards john

[stronics]

Those are one of the best welders ever made. I've had two of them over the years. One was called the "AirCrafter" I guess because it had a foot control for the voltage. It was the best DC tig machine. For stick it was only superb or better.
If I had 3 phase I'd have one now.
David

[johnboy1234]

Hi has anyone done any tig welding on Aircraftor glider repairs .ie cromemolly welding ......Regards john