Does this look ok to you guys????

[1320fastback]

First, this is not my work. I am a forklift driver for a company that is building some commercial building and found this mess welded to one of the steel poles. It is a saddle for a door header that will probably end up carring about a thousand pounds by the time the roof is hot mopped.

[mcostello]

Somebody's kidding, right?:(

[84ZMike]

You need to take that Komatsu track hoe in the back ground of the first pic. and rip it apart.... I have an extra key if you need it :cool:

[Broccoli1]

that will probably end up carring about a thousand pounds

No it won't:D

[metalmeltr]

It needs to be cut off the old weld ground off and a new bracket welded back into place. I don't know who your welder is but he needs to be fired.

[Krunch]

Eek! :eek:

Do you have building inspectors in "North Mexico"?

[moya034]

Are you sure those are welds and not bird droppings?

[Mr Meck]

Quick! Take a hammer and knock those suckers off before they fall off!

[1320fastback]

I must say that I agree with all of you guys, I think they look like garbage also. I do not know if they have passed inspection or maybe they havent been inspected yet but I do not think they are safe at all.

[FWI]

Ahhhh I would definately take those bracket off and re weld, bolt what ever because those welds are.....special;)

[GSSFC]

That 3rd one is a beauty! My 4 year old does better than that...seriously!

Tim

[projectwelder]

Hmmm, not too sure on these. Looks like they didn't even want to clean the material prior to welding or after for that matter. I am not sure about all the steel stacking either. Clearly this falls under, "Take it off and do it again"

[Rocky D]

This looks alot like the stuff I see in Mexico...they do it all the time. It is garbage, but it will prolly hold. I'd want to put more weld in there, though, or like most of the guys say...have someone that knows what they are doing, re-do it.

[1320fastback]

The sad thing is the welder is not from Mexico and I dont think by the looks of him that he has even been there. I know that these hangars will probably fail in the future, I'm just glad my company is not attached to them at all. Maybe I should offer to the super to take them off and reweld them, of course you probably have to be certified to do this (like pro that did them the first time) :o

[projectwelder]

The sad thing is the welder is not from Mexico and I dont think by the looks of him that he has even been there. I know that these hangars will probably fail in the future, I'm just glad my company is not attached to them at all. Maybe I should offer to the super to take them off and reweld them, of course you probably have to be certified to do this (like pro that did them the first time) :o

I can almost guarantee that the welder in question was not certified. If so, I am sending coupons to his cert agency!

[Sberry]

I would say its safe to bet money he didnt pass a test somewhere.

[1320fastback]

It gets better, theres now another set on another building that looks the same or worse. I will get pics tomarrow and see if I can find out why they arent being replaced. I will also take a pic of what the final product looks like when were done.

[fordwannabe]

Heck I can do better than that...AND I SUCK AT WELDING. But I keep at it so someday. Tom

[1320fastback]

Well heres the new pics.

The first two pics are the new hangars that were put on the next building/.

The third pic is of the framing that we do. This is the building that uses the hangars in my original post.

The fourth pic is after its sheared and nailed. This is a different building but is similiar, its also a reverse so left is right and so on.

[spuddown]

I can almost guarantee that the welder in question was not certified.

Now how can you do that? Do you know the man? Maybe it was you! Just because a guys certified doesn't mean every weld he makes is certifiable. I just spent a week waiting on four certified welders to cut out every weld they made the week before because the inspector failed everyone of them. Two of them got tramped. They were all certified. I'm siding with Rocky D. If its only holding a thousand pounds I'd say it would hold. Trust me I've seen a lot worse welds made by Certified Weldors.

[projectwelder]

Now how can you do that? Do you know the man? Maybe it was you! Just because a guys certified doesn't mean every weld he makes is certifiable. I just spent a week waiting on four certified welders to cut out every weld they made the week before because the inspector failed everyone of them. Two of them got tramped. They were all certified. I'm siding with Rocky D. If its only holding a thousand pounds I'd say it would hold. Trust me I've seen a lot worse welds made by Certified Weldors.

These are particularly bad, I have seen many non-certed welders produce better. Weld inspections can be tough, especially if the don't adhere to the weld procedure 100%. I am not sure about the welds your welders failed on, so I can't speak intelligently about the them.

However, these welds aren't even close to being certifiable and would be killed on visual alone. More than likely someone attempted welding these brackets who ran a welder some years ago on a fencing job or on the farm. Most pro welders, certed or not will spend time on weld prep and post weld clean up. Usually a primer will be sprayed over the steel to keep it from rusting. I am not sure how many pros would try the backing material scabination as shown. Whoever is responsible is probably the nicest guy on earth; but, I'm glad my safety doesn't depend on the strength of those welds.

John

[catdaddy137]

i always joke about moving to mexico , thinking it must be deserted , because all the hispanics are living here. at least now i know i can get a job there as a welder.

[Northweldor]

I'm siding with Rocky D. If its only holding a thousand pounds I'd say it would hold. Trust me I've seen a lot worse welds made by Certified Weldors.[/QUOTE]

I think what Rocky D actually said was to have it repaired by someone qualified.
I too have seen worse, but nothing that bad from anyone with any sort of valid credentials, since it looks like no prep, no fitup, no hand-eye skills, and no cleanup / paint . No building inspector should ever pass these welds because, even though they might hold 1000 lbs. (a good tack can do that!), wind, and roof stresses can put far higher loadings on these joints, (even if rain /snow weight is not likely).

[Dmaxer1]

I've seen some abominable construction practices in Mexico and long ago concluded that building inspection is meaningless there; in effect everything is up to the skill of the contractor. Seen roof integrity fail and (USA) owners have to tear apart and rebuild, adding more steel to ensure the result. Across the street from that location, I've even seen a steel roof collapse as workers were troweling concrete onto the flat steel-reinforced surface. At least that building was not yet occupied.:rolleyes:

As lousy as those pictured welds are, I'd say there is less likelihood they will fail than there is that the blueprints (if there are any) are being ignored at will so that wholesale shortcuts can be taken to cut costs. It is the cumulative effect of the shortcuts that causes the greatest risk.:(

Bottom line is: yes, those welds should be redone, but those welds wouldn't be my greatest worry. Best of luck!:D

[Craig in Denver]

And now, thanks to nafta, we have allowed those same quality control standards on OUR highways. :mad:

[Sberry]

I agree a lot of pathetic welds are structurally sufficient, have even made a few in my day. The picture would need to be better to see if there is some connection.
I looked again, I think I agree. probably strong enough.

[Sparkeee24]

It's nice to see fine quality like this. I am less concerned about the day to day with this building as I would be in a heavy storm or earthquake. I feel better about some of the ugly welds I have discarded in the past. I think the proper corse of action, would be to use structural steel brackets, manufactured for this use, made to be welded. I see the brackets being used here are designed for wood structure only. Probably galvanized. If they were the same thickness as the vertical tube, and good structural beads you could be good to go. but with what is there, it's no good. Yea Haw! Brian Lee Sparkeee29

[1320fastback]

Sorry guys I didnt mean to start a argument here, I am just supprised (as an equipment opperator and not a welder) that these could pass any inspection.

[TEK]

I see the brackets being used here are designed for wood structure only. Probably galvanized. If they were the same thickness as the vertical tube, and good structural beads you could be good to go. but with what is there, it's no good. Yea Haw! Brian Lee Sparkeee29

Not exactly correct. I have welded on many hundreds of these, and other style hangers, and been ok. There are weld schedules or details for using Simpson galvy hangers welded to beams or tubes. This is not a real good looking job but it will probably be fine....
And Brian, its good to see you back---

[spuddown]

These are particularly bad, I have seen many non-certed welders produce better. Weld inspections can be tough, especially if the don't adhere to the weld procedure 100%. I am not sure about the welds your welders failed on, so I can't speak intelligently about the them.

However, these welds aren't even close to being certifiable and would be killed on visual alone. More than likely someone attempted welding these brackets who ran a welder some years ago on a fencing job or on the farm. Most pro welders, certed or not will spend time on weld prep and post weld clean up. Usually a primer will be sprayed over the steel to keep it from rusting. I am not sure how many pros would try the backing material scabination as shown. Whoever is responsible is probably the nicest guy on earth; but, I'm glad my safety doesn't depend on the strength of those welds. John

I never said these welds were certifiable. Their bad welds, no arguments there. I said you can't tell by them that the guy was not certified.


I'm siding with Rocky D. If its only holding a thousand pounds I'd say it would hold. Trust me I've seen a lot worse welds made by Certified Weldors.

I think what Rocky D actually said was to have it repaired by someone qualified.[/QUOTE]

It is garbage, but it will prolly hold. Copy and pasted right out of Rockys post.

[Sberry]

I would say its safe to bet money he didn't pass a test somewhere. I am going with this again.
On another note I got no problem with welding the brackets on and most pro types could do it easily in a rod per hanger. If I was worried about finish and being neat I would be careful about weld location, could have even enlarged some nail holes and plug welded to the column. It would need only 4 or 5 small welds to be stronger than it could ever be nailed on.

[moya034]

In addition to bad electrode manipulation, I'm going to hazard a guess and say his current was set to low.

[TEK]

In addition to bad electrode manipulation, I'm going to hazard a guess and say his current was set to low.

I'm gonna say it wasnt rod at all......

Looks to me like 211, heat was 'bout right, and he didnt slag it....all typical of a blow and go field job...

(go ahead,fire away, you know it happens)

[spuddown]

I'm gonna say the guy was fairly short, haggard and gray, and walked with a limp.

[moya034]

I'm gonna say the guy was fairly short, haggard and gray, and walked with a limp.
... and doesn't take pride in his work.

[GSSFC]

I am not an expert weldor, but I would expect an expert weldor to take pride in his work. Even if those welds are structurally sound (I will make no judgment to that) I think the weldor could have taken the time to make the job look neat and not so sloppy. It is all about appearance. If those welds are indeed strong and had been neat we wouldn't be having this conversation. In all likelihood, if those welds were neat and NOT strong we probably still wouldn't have this conversation. If I am going to put my name on something, I want it to be something I am proud of, not something that is being questioned on the internet!

Tim

[sumojo]

maybe he used his feet to weld plus he was not using a face sheild. :eek:

[1320fastback]

I'm gonna say it wasnt rod at all......

Looks to me like 211, heat was 'bout right, and he didnt slag it....all typical of a blow and go field job...

(go ahead,fire away, you know it happens)


I found a half burned rod of 7018-1 on the ground by one of the poles. I always though that you burned rods down to the # at least, never knew they were free to throw away :D

[Rocky D]

I found a half burned rod of 7018-1 on the ground by one of the poles. I always though that you burned rods down to the # at least, never knew they were free to throw away :D

IN the shipyard you were required to return all your rod stubs burned down to 1 1/2"...so half hour before the whistle blew you would spend burning your long rod stubs down...they were counted, too. However for most other trades it is not uncommon to only burn half a rod and chuck it. A weldor knows just how much rod it will take to finish a weld, and he won't use a half rod when it will take a whole rod to finish a weld...the main reason it to reduce the number of starts and stops.

[projectwelder]

IN the shipyard you were required to return all your rod stubs burned down to 1 1/2"...so half hour before the whistle blew you would spend burning your long rod stubs down...they were counted, too. However for most other trades it is not uncommon to only burn half a rod and chuck it. A weldor knows just how much rod it will take to finish a weld, and he won't use a half rod when it will take a whole rod to finish a weld...the main reason it to reduce the number of starts and stops.

Sounds like the bean counters want to know that you were welding enough for the day. Nothing like trying to restart 7018 on the fly! I come to find either a file or smacking it hard against steel to bust through the slag. On the west coast, the ship yards are all over weld quality, but they still want it to be cheap too.