what do you recommend

[blazin454]

so i want to get in to stick welding as well as mig to increase my skills and abilities but im wonder what you guys recommend? i dont know anything really about the difference between ac and dc but i am reading about different rods and ect to try to get a base of what is what... anyways any help will be appreaciated thank in advance

[Sberry]

Get a machine with DC, don't fuss with all the rods to start with, keep it simple, 6011 and 7018. You learn these and the rest is easy if you need, I don't fool with anything else.

[Wyoming]

Yep on the DC...and more or less never look back. A bit more of an investment, but well worth the extra.

[robsd]

I do fine with my AC only. Favorite sticks are 6013 and 7014. If I have 7014 in hand I will use them on everything. I have 7018AC rods but never can get them going as good. I also have a HH140 mig with gas. Most of my stuff is 16ga tubing and the mig is perfect. Deer stands, swings, etc. The sticks, even with small rods, don't produce good welds and I get some blow outs(at least for me). Maybe DC is better here, dunno. The stick is mostly used on larger stuff for my tractor, trailers, etc.

I have a Lincoln Ac stick and a Hobart AC stickmate. I like the Lincoln better. Just seems to weld better.

Good Luck,
Rob

[Knowledgeworker]

I agree with Mr. Sberry and Mr. Wyoming 100%.

My first welder was a Hobart Stickmate AC, but after I welded some with a friend's DC welder, I upgraded to the Hobart Stickmate AC/DC. Welding on DC seems to be easier, and really seems to do a better job. Only on a rare occasion do I find the need to weld with AC.

This is just my opinion based on my experience.

Jim

[Sully2]

I agree with Mr. Sberry and Mr. Wyoming 100%.

My first welder was a Hobart Stickmate AC, but after I welded some with a friend's DC welder, I upgraded to the Hobart Stickmate AC/DC. Welding on DC seems to be easier, and really seems to do a better job. Only on a rare occasion do I find the need to weld with AC.

This is just my opinion based on my experience.

Jim

Ive said the same thing and of course was verbally abused for saying it because of my "lack of experience" using a stick machine. Dont know how they do on really thin material..?...but on 1/8 to 5/16 sheets / plate and a 7018 rod they will weld and HOLD anything that Id ever need to make hold together. DC is the ONLY machine I was ever able to "make work" for me...its that much easier to use IMO.

If I felt I needed a stick machine...especially for what they cost.. the Hobart AC/DC would be the one I would buy in the blink of an eye

[Krunch]

I'm a total newbie to welding but FWIW I've been real pleased with my Hobart AC/DC. It has "infinite" amperage control which allows you to control the heat a little better than welders that just have "step" settings.

I even was able to weld some fairly thin (~1/8") sheet metal using 1/16" 6013 rods without too much blowout with DCEP...I've heard that DCEN in that application is even easier, but haven't tried it yet.

[blazin454]

so how would you guys compare the hobart ac/dc stickmate vs the miller thunderbolt ac/dc machine or the maxstar 150?? pros and cons of any of the machines would help as well... and the maxstar is only dc i believe... any advantages to running ac? (other that higher output)

[MAC702]

AC is the easiest way to counter any arc blow that sometimes happens, but I wouldn't let that steer me away from a really nice inverter like a Maxstar.

[Sberry]

If its sitting in your garage or shop connected to a power line and you need to rarely move it then they do the same job. If you need to be portable the Max is hard to ignore. Being able to run on 120 and carry it has its benefits.

[Sberry]

The only time my little machine has ever seen AC is for an occasional nickle electrode on an exotic repair. For steel it is on DC plus for the last 25 years. It would never occur to me to fiddle with that knob.
I was in a shop the other day and they got a welder on a truck, well needed but little used and its set to AC, ha

[blazin454]

i really like the idea of the portability of the maxstar but its 150 amps right? ive got an hh187 as well but if i was doing some heavier stuff like on a tractor would i want the 235 amps of ac?? is there going to be a huge difference in what i am able to weld between the hh187, maxstar 150, and the acdc 235/160 (or thunderbolt 225 acdc) im also trying to weigh out if the portability is worth the extra few hundred dollars for the maxstar... anyways all help is appreaciated thanks again

[Sberry]

The difference in cost with the Max may level out due to less wire and lead to make it work well, cost of copper, etc and its portable. As for being heavy enough the only place I even carry a rod larger than 1/8 is on my heavy service truck, in the shop its 1/8, really really rare that a home/small shop/ hobby/farm couldn't make it on that. I have AC/DC, like I said, never been on AC for steel and never been past 115 on DC. I think it would run 5/32 6011 if needed but just plain dont find the need for it.

[Krunch]

I think it would run 5/32 6011 if needed but just plain dont find the need for it.

I've "successfully" run 5/32" 6010 on my machine...then again, it was WFO...

[blazin454]

well i cant quite remember but from one place the prices i got were around 550 for the thunderbolt 225 and 650 for the maxstar i thought a stick machine would be a little cheaper but o well.. im going to check out the other place i usually deal with as well and see what prices i can get on the 3 machines...

[Aeroweld]

I've had a Maxstar 150 STL for about 2 1/2 years. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound it is an amazing machine. I've probably made my money back on the machine 10 fold since buying it. It has replaced my Trailblazer and 251 HF box for mobile DC TIg welding. It's ability to run 7018 with 110v input still amazes me.

All that being said I would not expect that machine to be a replacement for a Thunderbolt or Hobart Stickmate for general stick welding.

First off the Maxstar only has a 35% duty cycle at 100 amps output with 115v input. Even with 220 input you are at 100% at 90 amps. Just about enough amps to effectively run a 3/32" 7018. To do 7018 1/8" you will be in the 115 amp range and even at 220 input you are in the 35% duty cycle range.
With this next statement I fully expect get some disagreement from other MAXSTAR owners but the machine will not run 6010. There just isn't enough OCV to get a good sound weld with a 6010. And it is not just me; I've had 2 pipefitter buddies of mine and a boilermaker buddy run the machine and we are all in agreement that while it puts out a hades of a weld with 7018, none of us would trust it for a good 6010 weld.

All in all the Maxstar is a great machine for what it is designed for which is a highly portable Stick and TIG machine but doesn't hold a candle to a Thunderbolt or Stickmate for overall SMAW welding. If you want a true stick welder for a shop save your dollars and get a T'bolt or Stickmate. If you need portability and understand it's limits go with the Maxstar

[Sberry]

I've "successfully" run 5/32" 6010 on my machine...then again, it was WFO... Didnt mean to imply that it couldnt be done. We had thread here a while back, a guy takes a welding class and uses a Dialarc 250, figures thats the machine he needs at home to be able to do the heavy work on a 23 hp Kubota, heavy stuff in one pass. I can tell from 30 yrs that he dont need it. On the rare occasion he needs it he can run a couple passes for 3 inches, aint worth the effort to have this monster at home.
As for the Max, Aero, correct, 6011 with it but the duty cycle compares with a Stickmate. My Tombstone lists only 20%. Enlpck runs the snot out of his he could elaborate. But I would tend to think at 115 it would keep a guy plenty busy, probably upwards of 50%, chances are it isnt being used to resurface a crusher jaw, general work I dont see the cycle being much of an issue, just wonder if you have personal experience with it? This is obviously some speculation on my behalf but I think Flange Jockey and Fillncap ? are using them for small bore process piping. Bet its a factor with the 6013?

[Sberry]

If we are powering it wwith 230 I bet a guy would get tired with 3/32 7018 before the machine would. Pipe joints come to mind here. I put it on 15A and only run 1 rod but it smoked off a 6011 1/8 right to the stub flux flamin at too hot, maybe 100A. I was looking to trip the breaker, didnt meter the input but any less at 85A or so it isnt going to be an issue. Same with the 3/32 lo-hi, I was running current less than 15A, 75% essentially, I havnt heard about duty cycle issues with them???

[Sberry]

I bought the S version, didn't care about anything else. I will buy another to cross that bridge should the day come. I bought mine to replace gas engine drive. I use a heavy service truck a while back, an hour on the road to run half an electrode on a bulldozer, there was onsite genset from the builder, could have hit it from a truck I was already in, twice as comfortable, half the time and cost to make a trip. Saved a hundred dollar effort in short order. What was a 700$ machine yesterday would have been 600 today.

[Sberry]

Too bad my LWS didn't have one on the shelf, they would have made a sale, I was already in town when i got the call, I would have bought one then and headed straight to the job. They want to wait a week to sell me one. I got mine to carry on my pickup.

[enlpck]

I'm going to address a few points, specifically with the maxstar

As said (Sberry,) the wire and cable cost today makes the up front cost of the maxstar real attractive. If you will need 100ft of welding lead, it will cost a LOT more than the 100ft of extension cord for the maxstar. Ditto for a long power cable so you can move the machine rather than drag long leads. If you never need to move more than a few feet, the up front cost of the machine dominates. If you need to go far, the cables and leads dominate.

If you will be doing a lot of welding, power cost adds in. The small inverters are a LOT more efficient. It may only be a few cents to a quarter an hour, but it does add up if the machine will be on a lot.

The Max will run 6010 fine, though it is less forgiving than with many machines. 7018, no problem. I have used mine for everything from 0.006" stock up to heavy lift points on a 50 ton machine (5/8" lugs to 3" thick steel, 1/8 7018 and preheat... A bigger machine would still need preheat)

I, personally, with my needs, wouldn't consider a stickmate or a T'blt today. Others should, but, unlike a feew years ago, it is much less eas of a decision.


I've had a Maxstar 150 STL for about 2 1/2 years.
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.
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All in all the Maxstar is a great machine for what it is designed for which is a highly portable Stick and TIG machine but doesn't hold a candle to a Thunderbolt or Stickmate for overall SMAW welding. If you want a true stick welder for a shop save your dollars and get a T'bolt or Stickmate. If you need portability and understand it's limits go with the Maxstar

[wmgeorge]

well i cant quite remember but from one place the prices i got were around 550 for the thunderbolt 225 and 650 for the maxstar i thought a stick machine would be a little cheaper but o well.. im going to check out the other place i usually deal with as well and see what prices i can get on the 3 machines...

I purchased the Miller Maxstar 150 and along with the TIG stuff. It is the sweetest welder I've ever used. Seems much hotter than the setting, and the arc starts right now. I took it down to my lake property to weld up some dead men using steel posts and flat plate, then sledge hammered in the ground. No 230 volt yet, so I made the adapter to go to 120 volts. ( I had cut off the 120 volt 20 amp plug and put on a standard welding plug.) It worked just fine, even at the end of a 50 ft 12 gauge extension cord. I used 1/8" 6011 rod at about 90 - 100 amps most of the time and got it all done. No breaker tripping (20 amp), and no problems.

I sold my Hobart AC/DC Stickmate, as this little inverter does it all. The Stickmate was only 160 amps on DC, this will do an honest 150, I don't think you'd notice the 10 amp difference. My son works with pipe fitters - welders, for most jobs they like the Maxstar as they can take the whole unit right up on the scaffolding with them. Tied off so they don't end up on the ground of course.

The lift arc TIG set up is also first class. BG

[Krunch]

the prices i got were around 550 for the thunderbolt 225 and 650 for the maxstar i thought a stick machine would be a little cheaper but o well.

You can get the Hobart Stickmate AC 235 / DC 160 for $420 from Tractor Supply or Northern Equipment.

[MAC702]

If looking for a simple, big transformer machine, it's USUALLY safe to trust the used market in the local paper's classified section. If it works when you buy it, it'll probably work forever.

[blazin454]

well i think for what i want the maxstar is the way to go.. im in canada and im going to be paying around 650-700 for it.. what do they go for everywhere else? is that an alright deal?

[wmgeorge]

well i think for what i want the maxstar is the way to go.. im in canada and im going to be paying around 650-700 for it.. what do they go for everywhere else? is that an alright deal?

Got mine off Ebay with TIG torch, regulator, remote, carry case and all was just under $1200 free shipping to my door. This was a close out model only had 3 left.

This is just like it, but with the new plugs that save you re-wiring a new plug on the end every time you go from 115 to 230 volts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140268304064&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=160268584832&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget&_trksid=p284.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BIA%26itu%3DIA%25 2BUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D42

[Roger]

If looking for a simple, big transformer machine, it's USUALLY safe to trust the used market in the local paper's classified section. If it works when you buy it, it'll probably work forever.

Probably hardest thing on old big transformer welder is rough handling during move is hard on brittle parts and insulation.

[daman1]

Old thread i know but instead of starting a new one....

looking for a DC unit also what is the smallest(Amps)welder one should get or stay away from?

I found a AC 225a/DC 125a Lincoln buzz box, now 125a sounds a little low to me could one do a decent strong repair on say up to 1/4"+ and 7018 with or with out multi passes with only 125a?

[Sberry]

I have one, its the go to stick machine in my shop. I have a 300 synch, never used it for stick, the only time I even use a rod larger than 1/8 is portable, its also a rare day I run more than one pass. Been repairing farm equipment with it for 25 yrs, one of the best and most profitable machines I ever owned.
I ran it against the Maxstar in heads up test, I actually got to give the edge to the Linc buzzer but its so small, almost imperceptible. Most noticeable is slightly better restarts.
I know I can can catch some crap for this but,,,, the little linc is one of the best stick welders I have ever ran or at least as good as any (not to include the downhill pipe gang) but for general stick work its about as good as it gets especially if price is any consideration. I am a career welder of 30 yrs, back in the day when I was working in the trades I got around a lot, ran dozens and dozens of machines, all types, brands, sizes and I really don't notice much difference if they are running right. I come home from a nuke and run mine on weekends, couldn't tell the difference. Put them against each other on the other side of a wall and try to tell which was which would be a challenge at best. I have only ran a stickmate a few times and it seemed to run well, been some time, but the place one might give an edge to it or a Tbolt might be in infinite current control, a couple amps can be a factor with small electrodes for real critical work but it isn't a deal breaker for me.
The 125A is adequate for general work, on the rare occasion I need more I run a couple passes, mostly on verticals, not an issue in my world. If one was doing a steady diet of heavy equipment, arc gouging etc then more machine would be warranted but what its got in enough for most people, one of the reasons they have been so successful and widely used.

[daman1]

Thanks for your post sberry i was just wondering about running into duty cycle issues? but most i would use it for would be also farm machinery cracks 1/4" or so with 7018 anything else the IM230 would do.

yours looks just like the one i was looking at,so you really like yours then huh?

[Sberry]

I used it last summer to weld up a boat trailer I had all tacked up. Took maybe 3 or 4 big handfuls of rod, maybe 10# of 1/8 lo hi or so and I run them back to back for a couple hrs with a 15 min break in the middle. It was a summer day, the machine was somewhat in the shade but air was just warm when I break, I had it all tacked, fit, chipped up, ready to systematically weld. All position stuff so I had to move a little but I was in hurry to make time, probably near half on arc time at 105, it runs them toasty there, I have a hot sturdy power supply so they are pretty zippy even at that setting. I have ran it more than once at that rate, I don't even pay attn to duty cycle and have owned it for 25 yrs, used it as a primary machine for 10 or so. Was a daily driver.

[daman1]

Ahh ok,,a search showed me DC only 20% DC :eek:,whats a good pice for this unit(look at my pic of it) he wants $200.

[Sberry]

It is listed at 20% but thats pretty conservative, at 200 snap it up, its a bargain.

[daman1]

Thanks S...

[Sberry]

Usually machines with the factory leads on them haven't had the snot ran out of them, I am sure sometime somewhere someone has burnt one up but I haven't ever seen it.

[daman1]

Speaking of leads should one upgrade these to a lager gage? they look kinda wimpy

[usmcpop]

Speaking of leads should one upgrade these to a lager gage? they look kinda wimpy

If you are real worried about them, cut them off at about 5 feet. Get a long input line cord and some backpack straps for the unit. :D

One nice thing about a welder like that - it doesn't weigh so much as my old Dialarc and maybe doesn't need a breaker/wiring upgrade just to feed it. I spent $200 just getting my back looked at after I threw it out while moving the Dialarc. :(

[monckywrench]

I spent $200 just getting my back looked at after I threw it out while moving the Dialarc.

My Lincoln ensures I don't throw out my back by producing carts, hoists, etc. I refuse to hurt myself since I consider everything I own to be worthless compared to my back.

I just swapped a Ford Ranger for a VI-450 SS MIG, and didn't sweat moving it at all thanks to stuff I built using the Lincoln. The first thing it got was a wheeled cart with a winching eye. (Why push what you can pull?)

Great, useful welder. I will never get rid of it and I've had it about 20 years. If I found another for 200 bucks I'd grab it immediately.

[daman1]

Thats the thing with older units like miller they weigh a ton,lol

[monckywrench]

Thats the thing with older units like miller they weigh a ton,lol


Yep, but they are great machines and the weight makes them less convenient to steal as well as less desirable to some sellers. I always keep an eye out for them.

[Sberry]

The size of the leads are not a problem but the length is, I cut mine off about a foot outside the machine and added connectors so I can use any lead. I also put Y,s, have a set for remote and outdoor and ground to benches and a lead that runs to bench with another stinger on it.

[Sberry]

You could use any kind of splice if you didn't care about connectors, this isn't a great pic.

[daman1]

I see ok...

[Sberry]

Kind of how its rigged. ground on building to reach out door which also serves plasma cutter for outdoor, next pic of machine with lead to reach out or out on to floor of building, stinger lead that reaches the booth and to my bench, ground jumper on bench.

[daman1]

I like that bench booth idea thats what i need at home have lots of toys in garage that can get burnt from sparks flying.

[Sberry]

Same lead reaches out from the booth to the regular benches. Main reason for booth was that in winter time even a rod or 2 really smokes the place up. We use wire for the most part and don't weld a lot but need something for minor stick welder training on occasion.