Grinding Welds Off Aluminum Pipe?

[trep813]

I'm building an aluminum folding T-top for a buddys boat and he would prefer that the welds be grinded off. This thing will be under a lot of strain when in the water and going full speed, 30 mph, with the wind and rain being factors as well.

My question is, will the welds be strong enough under these conditions if I grind them off. I'm useing my Miller TIG for this job so the penitration is deep.

We're low on material so some of the tubes are butt welded and that's my main concern. I'm useing reinforment in all these spots by spliting the same size tube and closing it to fit. I thought about putting plug welds above and below the butt joints as well. Any thoughts on this?

[wash61]

If you have good to full penetration you should have no problem with grinding the welds smooth. It should be as strong as the base material is.

[SundownIII]

wash61,

Just wondering how many marine towers you've built?

I'm sure you've tested your hypothesis.:rolleyes:

[Broccoli1]

Interesting that folks say to just grind the AL weld flush-

I tried it once and the heat from knocking down the weld caused the weld to crack:)

Loominum sho' be different than Mild steel:cool:

[SundownIII]

Broc,

LMAO

Yea, those kind of comments (previous poster) just have to come from someone who's never welded/worked with aluminum.

I'd like to see that guy walk on the site at Pipewelders in Ft. Liquordale and tell them that it's OK to grind their welds down.

For the life of me, I can't understand why some people feel compelled to reply to posts which they have no first hand knowledge of.

[trep813]

I got it, I got it, I got it !!!

The original post was to convince the owner that it shouldn't be done at all. I'll listen to SundownIII and now, so does the owner of this boat. And Sundown, the Miller Weld Board is awsome. Many more pictures posted than this one. We all like a little eye candy from time to time and it seems a little more informative as well. A picture says a thousand words.

I'm not knocking Hobart Weld Talk at all, I just want to make that perfectly clear. I've been on this one since March of this year. I've been fabbing and welding since ''87 but we all can still learn from our predecessors and I'm not above that. After all, that's how we all learned in the first place.

Sundown, I havn't got to the other site you told me about but will soon and I'll let you know about it.

[Sberry]

I'm building an aluminum folding T-top for a buddys boat and he would prefer that the welds be grinded off. Is this anything like a marine tower?

[SundownIII]

Sberry,

It is a marine tower. Just installed on a smaller boat.

T-Tops are generally used to support antennas, outriggers, lights, etc.

[Rocky D]

I wouldn't feel comfortable grinding the welds, that's where all your strength is. I'd tell him flatly, "no". Just make em pretty.

[trep813]

That's exactly what I'll do, make them pretty. If anything doesn't look good it doesn't leave my shop. Sometimes it takes others, like yourselves, to convince people what is right and what is wrong.:D

I'll post pictures when it's finished. He mainly wants it for shade and as Sundown mentioned, rod holders or outriggers or rocket launchers, lights, and to get his equipment off his console, maybe. He's going with a hand held radio to get rid of the large antenna, it's a Bay boat. All the parts are one offs made here at BlueBlaze Custom Fabrication. Hinges, connection joints, the whole nine yards. That was the deal, I make it all if I make any of it. No Taco parts.

From the way it looks right now, this thing is going to be nice. It'll fold forward so the boat will fit under his carport. He also wants a butt load of work done on the trailer. But this is just wants, he really doesn't need the trailer work done, just stuff to make it easier on him.

And does anyone know if those starter anodizing kits are worth a dime? I like to try my hand at that and put some of the smaller pieces on the market. I researched it and it seems fairly easy to pick up.

Thanks fellows.

[Sberry]

All the parts are one offs made here at BlueBlaze Custom Fabrication. Hinges, connection joints, the whole nine yards. That was the deal, I make it all if I make any of it. No Taco parts. You gotta love some threads, first it comes off as some yuk patching together some scrap in the yard for his buddy to endorsing his work to customers.

[JTMcCracken]

You gotta love some threads, first it comes off as some yuk patching together some scrap in the yard for his buddy to endorsing his work to customers.


;)

JTMcC.

[wash61]

wash61,

Just wondering how many marine towers you've built?

I'm sure you've tested your hypothesis.:rolleyes:

Does it really matter what it is? A marine tower or a boat canopy? It still is just aluminum. As I stated, your weld is ONLY going to be as strong as the base material. It does sound though as you know EVERYTHING, right?:cool: It has nothing to do with hypothesis, just plain common sense.:) I agree, it should not be ground but it will be just as strong as the base material if it is.

[wash61]

:)
Broc,

LMAO

Yea, those kind of comments (previous poster) just have to come from someone who's never welded/worked with aluminum.

I'd like to see that guy walk on the site at Pipewelders in Ft. Liquordale and tell them that it's OK to grind their welds down.

For the life of me, I can't understand why some people feel compelled to reply to posts which they have no first hand knowledge of.


For the life of me, I can't understand why some people feel compelled to "judge people" which they have no first hand knowledge of.

I am a licensed AWS CWI with over 25 years experience. I have welded more aluminum than most. Everything from structural to pressure vessels. (Just about every City of Miami bus is running an aluminum intercooler I welded) I do know what I am talking about. I just found this site and would like to help people with their questions, that’s all. I don't claim to know everything, but I will post to questions I do know. :) :)

[Sberry]

wash, I am almost sure you read the original question about like I did, "would it hurt to grind some welds off of my Buddy's boat" No one in this thread is trying to tell pipefitters in ft laud how to build towers, isn't them here asking.

[trep813]

You gotta love some threads, first it comes off as some yuk patching together some scrap in the yard for his buddy to endorsing his work to customers.

Sberry, if you where to call me a "yuk" to my face I'd put you on your rump. I asked for honest opions on a certain matter and you insult my life long friends boat, the pride I have in my work and ability, and most of all.........me!!! Know who your insulting and know that the world is small.

[JTMcCracken]

Ah, the dreaded "boat insult" rap.

Is that a felony or a misdemeaner in Michigan?

JTMcC., proud to be a Yuk.

[Sberry]

Someone seemed to think the welds needed grinding? My honest opinion is the Bud thought they needed grinding too.

[Sberry]

Yuk was a poor choice of words so my apologies. I don't read all the threads completely and don't have a grip on everyones bio, I jumped on this thread in a hurry by the sound of it. None of it aimed at specialists such as Sundown III who is qualified to elaborate on what is common trade practice at expert level. I was on the wagon with the welding instructor here, the tone of things suggested some apprehension, a question asked a thousand times a day in welding schools (hence the answer received from the welding instructor from ND or Minnesota?) anyway, in theory this is the patent answer and in the real world millions of welds are flushed off to some extent.
If we really want to look in this more failures are caused by design flaws than out right welding issues I think. This is the first thing that comes to mind when things are critical, roll cages come to mind. I have seen a few things where the welding was excellent but there was a fundamental flaw. I see one recently on a home brew trailer, nice welding but tongue failure to basic improper design, all these scenarios are familiar and similar especially at first glance.
I got a Miller tig too, doesn't qualify me to do squat. I got a pipeliner machine like JT has, same deal. Doesn't add a lot of credibility to any of this. But the answer you got in the first place could have been if "you got to ask"? this leads us back to the beginning.

[Sberry]

I would say the best way to prove it to him would be to show him one.

[trep813]

I would say the best way to prove it to him would be to show him one.

Sberry,

Apology accepted. My friend is happy with my work and welds, he knows them well. His main thought was the overall look when finished. As I said, there are buttjoints because of shortage of material and he wants no weld seams there, it's a nice clean look that we've pulled off.

[Sberry]

Good, glad it turned out well.

[wash61]

wash, I am almost sure you read the original question about like I did, "would it hurt to grind some welds off of my Buddy's boat" No one in this thread is trying to tell pipefitters in ft laud how to build towers, isn't them here asking.


You are correct.

Thank you Sberry, I guess some poeple still have some couth.;)

[SundownIII]

Wash61,

I, like you, didn't start welding aluminum yesterday. I was welding up our fuel cells in our race boats in the mid '60's.

I have been associated with the marine industry (full and part time) since that time.

I have done extensive consulting in the marine industry.

In all my years of being in and around marine tower fabrication, I have never met one fabricator (and I've worked with some of the best) who recommended grinding the welds on a marine tower fabrication. In fact, many of the better fabrication shops will insist that a part be cut out and removed, rather than ground down and rewelded.

I can't speak for all "aluminum fabricators" but I do know the marine fabrication business pretty well. In our industry, it just isn't done. And, in this application, we were talking about a marine tower. Heck, welders and owners take pride in the sight of a properly done tig bead.

To be honest, I've never welded an aluminum intercooler on a Miami city bus. ****, I've never even ridden on one, even though I did my graduate work at the University of Miami (Go Hurricanes--Beat Florida).

[wash61]

:)
Wash61,

SundownIII,

Heck, welders and owners take pride in the sight of a properly done tig bead.
.


I totally agree. I tell my studens that your weld is just like your signature. I can tell who (my students) did what, just by the welds, and your known by each and every weld you make. A good welder HATES grinding. I do go back a ways in welding, but I don't go WAY back to the '60s.;) :)

Peace,

[tomtri]

A good welder HATES grinding.


Aint that the truth, it bugs me to death when my apprentice piles on miles of wire that 'looks cool' only to spend 5 minutes grinding it all back flush!

Oh well, he'll learn eventually when he spends more time grinding than welding

[B_C]

What they said.......LOL

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d939b3127ccec4f03c67b4df00000040O00AcNGjdq4ct2 IPbz4Q/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[dseman]

While a steel weld can be made as strong as the parent metal, this is not so with aluminum. Heat treatable alloys will have material next to the HAZ that has been heated above 400 degrees (which is typically the temperature of the last heat treatment step) due to welding. By welding, this in effect will locally reduce the strength by 30-40%. So unless you do a post-welding heat treatment back up to 400 degrees you will have lost some strength. Non heat treatable alloys will have the material around the joint locally annealed back to a T-0 condition.So the only time a non heat treatable alloy can be welded and have the same strength as before welding is if you started with a T-0 alloy to begin with, or you cold worked the joint after the weld---which probably isn't going to happen.

food for thought,
-dseman