7018 Question

[nedster]

I'm new to welding and I've found the 7018 rods work very well on my Dialarc 250. My concern is storage of these rods as I live on the coast (humid) and don't have an oven. I've read through the posts here and elswhere regarding storing low hydrogen rods but saw nothing about storing them in an air-tight rod holder and putting a disicate pack in with them. Will this work?

[MAC702]

Better than nothing, of course, but no, not for critical welds. That's not to say you can't use it or trust it, I'm just saying it won't be by the book.

I think it was Pumpkinhead who said it best: "It's like using desicant to dry desicant."

Use a new box if you need 7018 for a critical job. Get a rod oven if you need it stored for constant use, or try to use other rods that don't have the same storage requirements.

[Sberry]

Thousands of rods that haven't been stored right are used every day.

[Jonesy70]

10 lbs rod overs are about $85 keep it dry and put what you are using in the rod oven...keep oven plugged in all of the time...it won't brake you with the electric bill either...Trust me on that...mine at home is on all of the time and it might cost me $6 a month...maybe

[ace4059]

10 lbs rod overs are about $85 keep it dry and put what you are using in the rod oven...keep oven plugged in all of the time...it won't brake you with the electric bill either...Trust me on that...mine at home is on all of the time and it might cost me $6 a month...maybe

you have to look hard to find a good one for under $100. most of these only get up to 300 degrees. I know it is better than nothing, but shouldnt 7018 rods be stored at a higher temps?

[MAC702]

AWS D1.1 says 250 degrees for storage. I doubt my little 10-pounder gets much hotter than that, but I've never measured it.

You may be thinking of the reconditioning temperature.

[TEK]

All of which only matters if you're doing serious, for real, to the letter code work. The average garage guy.....stick it in the box on the shelf and you'll be fine.

[nedster]

After reading your replies I decided to conduct an experiment. I took several 1/8" 7018 rods that I knew had been exposed to the air for at least six months and compared them to several new rods from a sealed carton. They were the same brand & size. I ran stringers on 1/2" plate at 130A with both. The fresh rods seemed easier to start and (perhaps my imagination) to burn smoother. To be honest, when I look at the beads I can't tell the difference. I know an xray might show porosity on the old rod welds but for what I'm doing, they looked great.

I might add that my welding mentor told me a good rule of thumb is if the rod has no corrosion on the bare metal end its probably good. Otherwise it needs to be rebaked.

[Sberry]

The corrosion wouldnt be a good indicator, with 7018 its measured in hours of exposure. Problems wouldnt likely show up with thin single pass welds in most cases.

[thingy]

LOW/HY,,means low mosture content rods,,,rods made to have low mosture in coating,,if you don't keep them about 250 degrees,,why use them? use 7010 rods,,they have mosture in the coating,[supposed to be that way],,and have just as much tensile,[well],,to big a deal is made over using 7018 rods,,I say,don't use them,,thingy

[Jonesy70]

My rod oven goes to 255 degrees. It only holds 10 lbs and it is portable...I have seen them used for under a hundred bucks...new ones do cost more...but a 500# rod oven or a 50 pounder cost alot more, even used


7010 would be easier to store since they don't need to be heated...but they do run alittle diffrent but not by much!!

[Sberry]

Ned, the hammer trick is good to some extent especially concerning the operator but doesn't have a lot to do with this dryness issue. Its technical but boils down to gas entrapment in the metal and between layers compounded when used on higher carbon steels especially with multiple passes. There is a ton of data and some examples to be found of failures, many guys here are better qualified to go into details, most beyond my comprehension. It can cause failures all the way to shatter and laminate type separations. Bad on a pipeline, heavy structural loading, shock, vibrations, etc. Under-bead cracking may be common. All this isn't so sensitive for light mild steel with single pass type work.

[Mr Meck]

Ever notice how that last half rod of 7018 burns better than the first rod half?

[oldtimer]

7018 will hold a bunch of stuff that 7010 won't. That is the reason to use them.

[Sberry]

It doesnt get much simpler than that does it?

[Craig in Denver]

Non stick weldor here, me.

Where does 7014 fit in here, since it's not as moisture sensitive? And may keep better for my rare uses.

Thanks, Craig :)

[Mr Meck]

7014 is a high deposition rod alegedly great for the thin stuff according to Lincoln. To learn all there is for 7014, drying and keeping rods dry visit the knowledge site at lincolnelectric.com. All you need to know about rods is there and a lot more.

[Ehart]

If you want something simple get you a nice sealed cabinet or an old refrigator make it where a 10 or 20 watt bulb you know something like the size of a Christmas light stays on all the time and this will help keep the moisture out, its not as good as an oven but it will work. I have had some rods stored in mine for years. I have kept hard surfacing rods and some of the odd ball things you don't use every day last a long long time.

[Craig in Denver]

Thanks Gentlemen. :cool:

[JTMcCracken]

7018 will hold a bunch of stuff that 7010 won't. That is the reason to use them.



Wow, enlighten us, what "stuff" would that be??

Do you have a grip on the mechanicals of 7010,,,,7018 in the as welded condition???

Do you understand why a low hydrogen deposit is sometimes needed and when/where?

JTMcC.

[Tim R.]

F#ck Boys it's just weldin'. If the rod will light and hold an arc that's good enough. All this talk about keeping 7018 dry to prevent hydrogen cracking in welds, but I didn't hear anything about preheating. I do like the plastic holders and the old frig. idea.

[nedster]

QUOTE=Tim R.;324465]F#ck Boys it's just weldin'. If the rod will light and hold an arc that's good enough.

I was on I-5 near Camp Pendelton yesterday when I saw a pickup towing a medium size utility trailer ahead of me begin swerving wildly. It came to rest on the shoulder and as I passed I could see that the coupler assembly was still attached to the ball on the receiver. The trailers "A" frame had seperated from it and was resting on the roadway. I'm guessing it wasn't built by a skilled welder.

[oldtimer]

Naw, McCracken I always welded everything with 6011.

Ever welded anything magnitized or a truck frame or even welded on a Bulldog hitch? I won't go any further.

Gimme a break.

[JTMcCracken]

You made the statement, but you're not willing to back it.

I've welded a couple of things together over the years and I do understand the mechanicals of both rods as well as when and why a LoHi deposit is required.

If you can't use facts to back your post then we have to doubt your comments.

JTMcC.

I'll add that I've made anomoly repairs on cross country pipelines laid in the 1940's and that's about as magnetic as it gets.
I've stretched and shortened quite a few big truck frames in years past but no I've never welded a bulldog hitch as all of my trailers are either goosneck or pintle hitch, I don't think bulldog makes hitches rated for the weights of my junk.
But that's all beside the point because everything you mention as not being weldable with 7010 was welded for decades, successfully, before LoHi became commonly available. And todays 7010 (a high pressure piping rod) is a much better consumable than what was used before LoHi became the norm. Those things can be welded with a wide range of consumables, 7018 is a very good rod for a lot of things, but it's not the only welding rod made that will hold up under severe service.

[Mr Meck]

There is a rod for every purpose. Somebody no doubt had problems overhead and wha ha fast freeze was developed. Likewise somebody got tired of so many stringers and hi deposition rods were the answer. Ever wonder why there is only brazing rod?
Working in the dirt moving industry I am tending to believe it really doesn't matter what you use. If it can be bent, torn, ripped, dented, broke in half,
or overloaded no rod or amount of metal will prevent it.
Like the sticker says, Loading over 72000lbs severely shortens frame life...As I go about making the boss happy by adding 12 inch side boards to a scraper.
I found it funny when a guy was using 6010 to fix a split pipe, then cover passed it with 7018 just like the book told him. Only problem I saw was the pipe was 12ga thick and all his rods were 1/8. By the time he got done there was considerable build up.
How about that cross frame on the truck? Can you weld it? Sure, I have welded it every spring for the last three years. What's wrong with your welds? Nothing, If you notice it cracks in a different place and maybe you shouldn't use the truck for that or replace it so I can have some fresher metal to weld on next spring.

[Jonesy70]

If you want something simple get you a nice sealed cabinet or an old refrigator make it where a 10 or 20 watt bulb you know something like the size of a Christmas light stays on all the time and this will help keep the moisture out, its not as good as an oven but it will work. I have had some rods stored in mine for years. I have kept hard surfacing rods and some of the odd ball things you don't use every day last a long long time.

I had never even concidered a old refridge...I would imagine that a light bulb would get it pretty warm inside...ever stick a thermomiter inside to get a accual temp?

[Jonesy70]

F#ck Boys it's just weldin'. If the rod will light and hold an arc that's good enough. All this talk about keeping 7018 dry to prevent hydrogen cracking in welds, but I didn't hear anything about preheating. I do like the plastic holders and the old frig. idea.

"Its just welding"...Dude, you have no clue what welding is then!! Anyone can bubble gum something together...but it takes a real, skilled, individual to be a real welder!!!!! Granted there are diffrent levels of welding from sheet to high pressure piping to seam welding of dumpsters to ordimental welding!!! All of them require practice and knowlegde of how the wires work! So its not "JUST WELDING"

Mr. Meck said it right...there is a rod for every situation, and with the proper research and practice you can use that rod to weld just about anything together

[Mr Meck]

If you use an old refrigerator, wire the light in the crisper area so convection can move the air around. 75 watt bulb gives about 125 to 150 degrees. open the door after a day or two to let the humididity out. The inside will be dripping with condensation. Doesn't work as good as an old used oven. With an oven there is exchange of air so as to lower the humidity. One good rod oven and some sealed tubes I found problematic free. :D
BTW ever go to a party where a shouting match starts? Kinda spoils the fun huh?

[wmgeorge]

QUOTE=Tim R.;324465]F#ck Boys it's just weldin'. If the rod will light and hold an arc that's good enough.

I was on I-5 near Camp Pendelton yesterday when I saw a pickup towing a medium size utility trailer ahead of me begin swerving wildly. It came to rest on the shoulder and as I passed I could see that the coupler assembly was still attached to the ball on the receiver. The trailers "A" frame had seperated from it and was resting on the roadway. I'm guessing it wasn't built by a skilled welder.

:)

Reminds me of my PHD Brother in Law, who along with his family friend a degreed ME built one of those tear drop mini camping trailers. The ME welded it all up with a little 120 volt MIG welder he purchased at Harbor Freight. The exact same thing happened as above, first time out it comes apart on the interstate.

So they get it home and re-welds, then tow it all to way to camp out in Maine. I'm not a pro welder by any means, but I know a crappy weld when I see it. Even after the re-welds it was still looking pretty bad. I was surprised they made it back to Georgia.

[jusanapprint!]

The help that I see on 7018 vert welding is okay. But what if you're not allowed to weave and you're only allowed to run stringers. If you have a 1/8 7018 rod and they want your beads to be about a 1/2" wide with a crown about 1/8th. What can one do to get the best results?:confused:

[HT1]

The help that I see on 7018 vert welding is okay. But what if you're not allowed to weave and you're only allowed to run stringers. If you have a 1/8 7018 rod and they want your beads to be about a 1/2" wide with a crown about 1/8th. What can one do to get the best results?:confused:

someone is asking you for alot!!! advance very very slowly, and call weaving a nervious twitch you got in the war... if you actually have one it helps:D

[mwoh419]

Where does 7014 fit in here, since it's not as moisture sensitive? And may keep better for my rare uses

I love 7014. It's my rod of choice when I don't have to worry about high carbon content. It's a medium penetrating, high deposit rod. 7018 isn't the "miracle rod" some people think it is. I usually keep a stock of 6010, 6013, 7014 and 7018 on hand, (with a little cast and ss rod), and so far that has met the needs of the limited world I live in. Sometimes the trick to a good weld is a little preheat, (and postheat).

---Mike---