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[whateg0]

I just bought an old Coats tire machine. I got a good deal on it, and even in its present condition is very useful for breaking down tires. But the shaft in the middle that rotates the iron is broken. Apparently it has been repaired before, or an attempt was made, anyway. I haven't had a chance to do much with it or take many pics because today was the season opener at the local track and I'm on a pit crew. I don't know what material this is made of, so I'm not sure where to start. I'll post some pics as soon as I take some, but how would you proceed with repairing this?

Dave

[84ZMike]

Have you talked with a local tire shop?....They could have an old machine like yours you could get for parts....or they can tell you were they get parts for them from.

[mudbug]

You might try these guys-- http://www.autoess.com/CoatsRepairParts.htm You might even be able to get a manual for it.:D http://www.autoess.com/CoatsParts.htm

[vicegrip]

You do have both peices no ?
30 degree V-cut's nearly to meet in the middle......

fixture it till abought 70% done....
remove and finnish keeping str8 as you go.

vg

[whateg0]

You do have both peices no ?
30 degree V-cut's nearly to meet in the middle......

fixture it till abought 70% done....
remove and finnish keeping str8 as you go.

vg

Thanks Phil! That was kind of what I was thinking, though I didn't know what filler. I'll have to go over to my buddies house to do it, I think. He's got a PT225 that will probably just laugh at this.

If I can fix it, I have to believe it'd be less expensive than buying a new part, although I may have to replace the threaded tube. It is worn through on one side so that only the threads remain. Then again, for the use it'll get from me, it might be okay.

Thanks for the info. The manual link was very nice.

I'll still post some pics when I get some taken.

Dave

[whateg0]

Well, I didn't get any useful pics, but...

It looks like there are some pieces that are either missing or are missing. Or they're missing. What appears to have happened is that the shaft was supposed to be inserted into a gear. There are also supposed to be some bushings at the top and bottom of the threaded sleeve it rides in. However, the bottom of the shaft was welded to ?. The lack of bushings also led to the wear-through on the threaded sleeve. I'll have to look at it some more when I'm able to disassemble it. Anyway, that's about all I can report until I can take it apart. It looks like it should be easy to fix, even if I have to replace the shaft.

I'm not sure, but it looks like the sleeve part is part of a bigger piece. Again, I'll have to take it all apart to find out for sure.

Dave

[whateg0]

After getting some of the grease off of the shaft and getting a closer look at it, I now have a better idea what's going on. The shaft had been broken in the middle before. It was either welded back together or the lower half was replaced with a different rod. Either way, the alignment was apparently not very good because it looks like somebody had to do some grinding to get it close. The bottom of the original shaft is missing as is the drive gear for it. I'm not real worried about the shaft because I can make a new one, but I guess I'll have to get a new gear. Otherwise, other than some wear and signs of having been outside for a bit, everything appears to be okay. I'll have to replace the rubber, of course, but I'd probably do that anyway.

As promised, here are some pics.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/tools/coats_machine/P1000954_sm.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/tools/coats_machine/P1000956_sm.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/tools/coats_machine/P1000960_sm.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l220/whateg01/tools/coats_machine/DSCF1379.jpg

Dave

[Sberry]

we did some work to this one, need to fix a couple more things. We must have missed a brolen weld, we patch the frame a little and R&R the valves, they were sticky. I like the link, saved it.

[Rocky D]

we did some work to this one, need to fix a couple more things. We must have missed a brolen weld, we patch the frame a little and R&R the valves, they were sticky. I like the link, saved it.
Cary, looks like you have an awfully short photographer. :eek:

[Rocky D]

Dave, did ya ever get it fixed? Looks like it broke in one of many repaired sections of the shaft. I would guess 4130 chromolly for this. Stainless may be OK for tensile, but this is torque stress. Great pictures. I'd prolly try to build a new one, if ya can't buy it.

[whateg0]

Actually, I finally got around to calling the place that Mudbug linked. The shaft is $145 and the pinion gear is $69. I'll buy the gear, but the shaft I think I can make on a friends lathe.

Dave

[Sberry]

Like a number of things a tire machine is something I should have looked harder and shopped more than I did to find one in better condition. Lots of moving parts and fixtures on one including valves and plumbing. A guy should hydro the air tank if he could. There is a reason you find good deals, they long since paid for themselves back in the day. Mine earns its keep even limping along. I would probably buy the shaft, I would likely buy the parts unless it was something I could do fast and easy, no point in standing in front of a lathe for a day plus source the materials, etc. Made that mistake more than once, now my first option is often how much is new especially where machining is involved.

[vicegrip]

Actually, I finally got around to calling the place that Mudbug linked. The shaft is $145 and the pinion gear is $69. I'll buy the gear, but the shaft I think I can make on a friends lathe.

Dave

Dave:
Are you aware that, that shaft will either have to be heat-treated,
OR,
made from a high-grade Prehard ?
At the very least 4140 PH ,to get the strength you need.
If you have the dimentions, I could see if there's some
Shafting laying around, one of the tool-shops
around here, a leader-pin from Superior Die Sets, would work.

You won't be able to machine it on a toy-lathe though.
Carbide and guts all the way.....the flats too.

vg

[whateg0]

Well, Phil. Thanks. I guess I didn't think that I'd need to heat treat it. Although, I can see where the keyway is and where there is contact, that the pressure would be pretty high. Hmmm... Maybe I would be better buying it. I don't think I'll really use it enough to truly justify the purchase. It's just something that I think of every time I have to mount or dismount a tire. I have one of the HF manual tire changers that I bolt to the deck of my trailer and have been using it for a few years. I know how hard I have to work at it to get some tires to come off the rim, even with lube. I guess I still underestimated the force. Definitely something to think more about.

As far as the lathe goes, I have a friend that has a monster in his shop. 'Course, I've never used it for anything bigger than maybe gundrilling a bolt, or turning some dies for the bead roller.

Thanks for the advice.

Dave

[mudbug]

I have one of the HF manual tire changers that I bolt to the deck of my trailer and have been using it for a few years. I know how hard I have to work at it to get some tires to come off the rim, even with lube.

Dave

That thing will work you to death!!!! :eek:

I've got one & let anyone use it(just to watch them sweat:p) It takes a certain touch to use it & it takes a lot of use to learn that method(more than once in a while).

I got it for "just in case I needed it sometime" --NOT-- for all the time.:D

I'd bet that shaft is very hard...you could make it,but it'd need to be hard or heat treated. Not saying you couldn't make one that functions for a home shop,but everyday might require the correct shaft. Call them...they should know if it's heat treated or some special shaft material & would be happy to tell you so(don't tell them you intend to make your own..just ask questions about it's strength)

Just had a thought... don't know the size of that shaft,but you might find some oilfield sucker rod to make it out of... Tough stuff in the larger sizes.

Good Luck,Dave(yea another one)

[vicegrip]

That thing will work you to death!!!! :eek:

I've got one & let anyone use it(just to watch them sweat:p) It takes a certain touch to use it & it takes a lot of use to learn that method(more than once in a while).



Try this once.
I got this for $35 when I was 17.
http://usera.imagecave.com/vicegrip/000_1252.JPG
absolutely dead-broke and no job at that time.
It had four flat tires.
I had four tires from a junk car.

Using crow-bars and mallet & brick hammers......
I worked for hours on end "braking the Bead" loose,
and working the tires off 8 - EIGHT!! rims.
Putting 4 back on wasn't so bad.
BUT, the TransVair had wide-rims.....
I had a tiny compressor but had to turnicet the tires by hand,
to get them out to the beads.....to inflate.

If I didn't have a "vicegrip" by then, I did when I was done.

vg

[whateg0]

When I was a kid, we lived on a farm. Every couple of weeks they would grade the roads - pulling up all the nails, screws, wire, etc. that was hidden under the surface. Then for the next week-and-a-half, we'd be fixing flats, so that we could start the cycle over again. I got really good at changing tires. Kinda felt like a NASCAR pit crew. I'd pull over in my 1977 Plymouth Arrow and open the hatch. Within about 2-and-a-half minutes I'd have the tire changed and be back on the road. Anyway, we at least had a way of breaking the beads down, and the irons to change them, but it was a pain.

Fast-forward a uh- few years, and I don't have anything to break down beads. I'm living a couple hundred miles from home, and I either don't have the money to pay somebody to patch a tire (they'll plug 'em for cheap, but...) or would rather use the money for other stuff. I didn't have my HF tire changer yet, so I found that if I put the tire under my truck and got my little portable floor-jack out, put it on top of the tire next to the rim, and started jacking, I could break beads fairly easily. I had to carefully use screwdrivers to mount and dismount, but it worked.

Then for a few years, I used my HF tire changer. I always thought I'd be getting a newer truck in a few months, so I didn't want to put new tires on it. (I still have the darn thing, because somebody else keeps totalling their vehicle, or something happens to it, requiring replacement of it first. :mad:) So, it works. Lube helps. And it doesn't like some wheels and tires. But mostly, it works very well. I'm fairly proficient at it now. And, the whole thing cost me less than 2 tire irons would have cost. They seem very expensive!

Now I have this thing. Mudbug suggested that in a low-use situation, something less hard might work. In reality, I think this would easily fall into that category. I guess that's part of the reason I don't want to dump mucho bucks into it.

BTW, I have some pieces of spring steel left over from cutting slappers out of leaf springs. Ground smooth, those pieces of spring steel work very well as tire irons. I am going to take some 5/8" rod and weld that to one of them and see how it works. Right now, they are only about 12" long and they work pretty well. I don't know how the add'l leverage will affect things. And then there's the weld itself. Definitely worth trying, though.

Dave

[whateg0]

Since I have the end that the shaft extension slips onto, and that's the part that is keyed, and (I would think) would really require the hardening, along with the other end, would this work? I think it would be easier to find a piece of shaft that is hardened and fit the dimensions of just 1 end than to find a piece that could be used for the whole thing, not to mention the machining would be easier. What if I could come up with a piece for the other end, machine a keyway into it, or whatever the gear requires, and then weld a piece of either solid rod (of more common material) or a thick walled piece of tubing in between the two ends? Would that be any more feasible? Or am I just pipe dreaming?

Dave

[vicegrip]

Since I have the end that the shaft extension slips onto, and that's the part that is keyed, and (I would think) would really require the hardening, along with the other end, would this work? I think it would be easier to find a piece of shaft that is hardened and fit the dimensions of just 1 end than to find a piece that could be used for the whole thing, not to mention the machining would be easier. What if I could come up with a piece for the other end, machine a keyway into it, or whatever the gear requires, and then weld a piece of either solid rod (of more common material) or a thick walled piece of tubing in between the two ends? Would that be any more feasible? Or am I just pipe dreaming?

Dave

Do it baby !!
If I understand your drift.

vg

[whateg0]

Well, Phil, for some reason I overlooked the obvious. Yeah. That should work. I had thought about cutting the other end off and then using it and a "new end" along with something in the middle. I don't know why I think like that. Duh! If I can find the piece to make the "new end" out of, why not just attach it to the existing piece. I'd better wait to take the measurement until I get the new gear. Not sure when that'll be, though. I'd hate to just make it the way it might be and then have to cut it off and re-do it.

Thanks!
Dave

[vicegrip]

what the out-come turned out to be.?;)

vg

[Sberry]

You don't have to change many tires anymore to spend 200, I swore I would never have a machine but finally get one and its been worth it. We salvaged a tire a while back it would have cost 100 to replace, earns its keep fast. Another must have is a Safety Seal tire plug kit. Its paid for many over in short order, fast and they work well.