Cutting metal...not wood

[Greg Di]

I'm a carpenter that is only now finally teaching himself to weld. I'll build you a built-in bookcase, but working with metal is totally new to me.

As a futz around with scraps I am collecting to practice on, I realized that I don't know the first thing about what tool is best to cut what material with, what to prep the metal with, how to make joints properly, clamping, etc...

Is there a book you guys can recommend?

I assume a chop saw is probably a great thing to have for cutting tube stock and the like because it'll give you nice square ends. Problem is, I don't have one...I do have sawszalls and a grinder with cutoff wheels at this point, but the cuts are not great.

I also take it that you need a REALLY big and FLAT work table to keep everything flush while you are welding. Right now, I'm working on the ground it's miserable.

I do not have a garage, so I have to do everything outside and I don't have too much storage room for a big table.

Any tips would be appreciated...

[hankj]

Greg,

Welding Essentials by Galvery and Marlow (~$30 in a bookstore) is one I like. I constantly use it as a reference resource.

Metal cutting tools are varied, and not all, as you know, are suited for every application. My workhorse is a horizontal/vertical 5" x 6" bandsaw (Jet). I also have a 14" abraisive (chop saw), a bunch of 4.5" x .045" cutoff wheels for angle grinders, and two O/A rigs. Also, I use bi-metal blades in a sabre saw and/or a Harbor Fright electric metal shear for light sheet stock.

If I was going to add another, it would be a dry-cut (carbide tipped blade) circular saw.

With the right blade, I can cut light non-ferrous metal on my Jet wood bandsaw, but I don't like to do that because of the proliferation of metal chips that contaminate the saw.

In a pinch, you can bolt an abrasive blade in a worm-drive Skillsaw, but those saws turn so slowly that you'll eat the blade really quick. I also tried one in a sidewinder, but they just don't have the torque of a worm-drive.

Good luck, and enjoy the hobby. I, too, am a woodworker. I've been where you are now!

Hank

[whateg0]

My opinion is that it all depends on what you want to do. I worked for 'awhile' from sawhorses with a couple of pieces of angle laying across them. Call it an 'open' design if you want. This works out well if you want to make big things that would require a big table, but don't have the room for a big table. It's also pretty inexpensive to make. There is also a knockdown table of sorts on Miller's website in the projects area. A chopsaw is nice for cutting stuff to length. So is a bandsaw. Either one seem to do well. Chopsaw is quicker, but a bandsaw is quieter and cleaner. I did make due for quite awhile without either, using a angle grinder / cutoff wheel for everything. The nice thing about metal is it's kinda like drywall. If you make a little mistake, it can be filled. ;)

Man, it takes me too long to reply. By the time I hit submit, somebody else has said what I was thinking.

Dave

[whateg0]

By the way, if you get a carbide bladed saw, like the Evolution, don't try to cut leaf springs with it. A buddy of mine thought since it was so good on other stuff, it would be a piece of cake. Maybe year-old fruitcake. He needs a sharpening now.

Dave

[Broccoli1]

http://www.amazon.com/Welding-Fabrication-Repair-Questions-Answers/dp/0831131551/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product

This one looks pretty good from just browsing through it.


I have the book Hank mentions but it doesn't cover as much as the Welding Fabrication seems to.

[Zrexxer]

http://www.amazon.com/Welding-Fabrication-Repair-Questions-Answers/dp/0831131551/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product

This one looks pretty good from just browsing through it.I've got that one, it's a pretty good reference. It has a lot of information about controlling warpage too, which I haven't seen elsewhere.

[Greg Di]

http://www.amazon.com/Welding-Fabrication-Repair-Questions-Answers/dp/0831131551/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product

This one looks pretty good from just browsing through it.


I have the book Hank mentions but it doesn't cover as much as the Welding Fabrication seems to.

I just browsed that book and it does look like it's valuable. I ordered it.

Why does the author say that a chop saw is not good for tube stock?

[Broccoli1]

I just browsed that book and it does look like it's valuable. I ordered it.

Why does the author say that a chop saw is not good for tube stock?

Perhaps at a more advanced stage of fabrication where fit up is critical- it is not an ideal tool for precision cutting- :confused:

I'm a backyard hack so it works for me:)

Probably the same as stating that a Jig saw is not good (ideal) for ripping a sheet of plywood.

[Broccoli1]

As far as a Table- you can build a lot of stuff with 2- saw Horses and a piece of 1/4" Plate.

Anything to get you off the ground:)

I used a piece of Plywood with a sheet of 16g on top for a while when I was at an Apt.

Not having to move the Ground Clamp around it wonderful

[Greg Di]

My book isn't even shipping for a week, so bear with me...

How does one clamp two pieces of angle together to form a 90*? The way I would clamp wood doesn't apply. I must admit this situation has me totally perplexed...especially with a bunch of bedframe angle to practice on!

[hankj]

I've got Welding Fabrication also. Good text. To me, that's more of a primer on actual metalwoking situations for a guy who can already weld. Welding Essentials is targeted more at the beginner weldor.

As for the chop saw inferiority, a couple of traits are detrimental. Where you place the work is critical to the cut quality. If the blade doesn't initially contact the work at top dead center due to the fence adjustment, there is a tendency to cut out of square, or in some cases run out of blade travel before the work is severed.

Also, excessive downfeed pressure can cause the blade to flex. This causes an out of square cut also.

I like abrasive chop saws for small stuff like rebar, flat bar, round bar, etc. rather than hollow shapes. For hollow shapes, I'll differ to the bandsaw every time.

Hank

[Zrexxer]

I like abrasive chop saws for small stuff like rebar, flat bar, round bar, etc. rather than hollow shapes. For hollow shapes, I'll differ to the bandsaw every time.HankThere's just no "one tool fits all" answer for cutting. I see people on here all the time say, "Oh I'd never use a chopsaw again, the bandsaw is the only tool I'll ever use," etc... but I can throw the chopsaw and a generator in the back of the truck and plunk it down in the mud to cut drill stem for fence posts - and have. The bandsaw just isn't the tool for that. Now in the shop, yeah, the bandsaw wins out every time.

[hankj]

[QUOTE=Greg Di;314670

How does one clamp two pieces of angle together to form a 90*? [/QUOTE]

If you mean how do you clamp them to cut the 45° in both pieces at once, you can't! You need to cut your 45°'s on each piece individually. You will wind up with a square cut on the part of the angle iron that is parallel to the blade, and a 45° bevel on the piece that is perpendicular to the blade.

Another way to do 90°'s on angle iron is to notch the end of one member to accept the whole angle of the joining member, then weld all seams.

One joint is no stronger than the other, and the notched method is often easier to fit up, especially if the 45° cuts are not exact.

Hank

[Broccoli1]

They make Corner Clamps fer metal too:D

I just set it up with a Speed Square or a Framing square- tack each corner- measure the diagonal- tweak it back to Square- then weld it up



Just wait till ya experience the metal moving on ya when you weld it up:)

[Broccoli1]

In a week he ain't gonna need no stinkin' book:D

[whateg0]

They make Corner Clamps fer metal too:D

I just set it up with a Speed Square or a Framing square- tack each corner- measure the diagonal- tweak it back to Square- then weld it up



Just wait till ya experience the metal moving on ya when you weld it up:)

Yeah, wood doesn't bow when it's glued the way metal does. ;) Did I ever tell you about the observation deck I built as one of my first welding projects? It's really quite funny in hindsight. At the time, though...

Dave

[hankj]

They make Corner Clamps fer metal too:D

I just set it up with a Speed Square or a Framing square- tack each corner- measure the diagonal- tweak it back to Square- then weld it up



Just wait till ya experience the metal moving on ya when you weld it up:)
Think he's talkin' makin' the cuts...

Hank

[Broccoli1]

Think he's talkin' makin' the cuts...

Hank

In that case see Hank's Post:D

[Broccoli1]

and see this Thread

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=28572&highlight=Cutting+angles
:)

[Greg Di]

Thanks for that info guys. I have to change my mindset with metal, which is hard to do because I am so used to thinking about wood.

How precise do you need to be when cutting? With wood, it has to be exact, but with metal, the bead can do a lot (and so can a grinder). If the pieces of metal being joined are not tight before the weld, will the weld be weaker?

[hankj]

Greg,

Us wood butchers all have some initial trouble measuring and cutting steel. If it's a cabinet face frame you're building, you know there's zero tolerance for error. But, steel in the company of a welding machine is very forgiving!

I like to get as close as practicable, and for light gauge hollow shapes, fitup is critical to a good weld. Still, a pretty big gap in a 45° joint in two pieces of angle can be filled with weld metal quite readily!

Hank

[Greg Di]

I received my book in the mail today and I'm only 20 pages into it, but this book is fantastic. Every page teaches you 2 two or three things.

[DaveD]

As a hobbiest I have all the typical grinders, $200 abrasive chop saw, cutting torch and even a plasma cutter. BUT one of the best tools I recently bought is a portaband (hand held) band saw. I debated between a Milwaukee and the DeWalt. I'm happy with the DeWalt I bought.

I recently had a need to cut four 2"x4" x 1/2" thick pieces of steel from a larger piece. That portaband puts a sawzall to shame. The blade seems to last forever too. Lately the portaband is the tool of choice to do my metal cutting.

I even had an occasion to use the portaband to hack off a couple of pieces of 2x4 lumber. I was surprised how easy it did it with the metal cutting blade that came with it.

The hardest thing for me to learn/understand is how heat affects steel fabrication. First the heat expands the metal and then it shrinks back smaller than the original size. I really noticed it when I was tacking a big piece of expanded metal on a 5' piece of 1/2" 16 gauge tubing.

[whateg0]

After you experience the warping of a perfectly aligned panel or frame or <fill in the blank>, you'll start to learn all you want to know about how heat affects it.

Dave