different rods

[Brianstick]

Why are some rods classified as deep penetrating (6010) and some are not (6013). It seems as though I can weld through the same amount of rust and oil with each rod. I guess my question is, what can a 6010 rod do that others can not?

[enlpck]

Why are some rods classified as deep penetrating (6010) and some are not (6013). It seems as though I can weld through the same amount of rust and oil with each rod. I guess my question is, what can a 6010 rod do that others can not?

A 6010 rod can burn into the base metal more readily than, say, 6013. In fact, many people have trouble learning to run 6010/6011 without making holes. These put a lot of heat into the base metal for the amount of metal deposited, compared to most other rods. This is the 'deep penetrating' aspect. They excavate.

6013 doesn't excavate. You can run a bead of 6013 that sits right on the surface of thhe base metal, looks kind of like a weld, but pops off with a chipping hammer (though one dos generally get some fusion into the base metal no matter ow hard you try not to).

The 'fast freeze' character of 6010/11 is, again, relative. It works with the ability of the rod to let a welder really burn in, whip away from the puddle a moment to let it freeze, then come back and reform the puddle again, consuming more base. With a '13, if you try this, you will find that you have tough time getting the base metal to form a puddle, and when you whip, it is tough to reform the puddle without making a mess.

This has little to do with tolerance for rust and oil. I will make a blanket statement that you should avoid welding through either (though we have all done it and will do it again). That said, the tolerance of a rod for contamination has little to do with whether it is a good excavator. It has a lot more to do with the flux. 6010 does well since it burns the crud out (including its own flux) and melts into the base metal underneath. 7018 does pretty well (if you can forgo the lo-hy property to some extent) since the flux has good cleaning action and has some reducing character. '13 does ok, but has less cleaning ability than '18, and won't burn under as well as '10. '10 has he good reputation for dirty material, not due to cleaning ability, but due to disintegrating ability. The flux doesn't clean the metal. It can be use to burn out tremendous quantities of crud, and if care is used to keep the residue out of the weld metal, it will leave a fine weld.

Warning: poor practice, but handy, below

An additional benefit of '10 (you can do the same thing with '18 pretty well, but it doesn't work well with '13 at all) is the ability to STIG (several other names, not an AWS approved process but, again, many of us have done it and will do it again): Carry the puddle with the stick, and feed extra filler with the other hand, like doing TIG, but using a stick instead of a TIG torch. Real nice with '10. Don't whip. Control the puddle with the additional filler. With '18, it allows you to carry a huge puddle, such as you might need for rooting a wide gap of poor fitup, and fill it quickly. The additional filler should have the flux broken off if it started life as a stick electrode, or can be TIG or MIG filler. It need not be the same material. I have used this technique to get a little stainless into a root to help control cracking as well as for bad fitup. Again, not the 'right' way, but sometimes you do what you got to do.

[6010]

These rod use different polarties also. The 6013 when used to weld thin material should be used with DC Straight Polarity. This is when the electrode is negative. When the 6013 is used this way with the current turned down it can weld thin sheet metal. It looks like the weld material stays mostly on the top and does not burn through like a 6010 would. a 3/32 6010 with the current turned down can make a pretty weld on sheet.

The 6010 should be used with DC Reverse Polarity. This is when the electrode is Positive. This combination gives deep penetration.

[thingy]

Some rods are used for ac,,some for dc,,some rods put a root in better than others,some rods have a smoother surface,some rods you need to store in a 250 degree oven,some you had better not or coating will fall off,,,some rods run good downhill,some don't,some rods are hard to restart,some aren't so hard,some work better on real thin stuff,some not so good,,and thats all the somes I can think of now,,,thingy

[6010]

Well put Thingy ;)

[wmgeorge]

I'm going to toss in 6011 rod, does it do the same as 6010? And 7018 is a low hydrogen rod, but if you are not welding alloy metals, do you really need 7018 on carbon steel??

I have the 6011 instead of 6010 because my old welder was AC only, and I'd like to use it up.

I'm asking because I don't have a rod oven for what little '18 I use and would like to use the 7014 rod I have for the cap weld over 6011, on carbon steel or HR tube. BG

[enlpck]

I'm going to toss in 6011 rod, does it do the same as 6010? And 7018 is a low hydrogen rod, but if you are not welding alloy metals, do you really need 7018 on carbon steel??

I have the 6011 instead of 6010 because my old welder was AC only, and I'd like to use it up.

I'm asking because I don't have a rod oven for what little '18 I use and would like to use the 7014 rod I have for the cap weld over 6011, on carbon steel or HR tube. BG

6011 is about the same as '10, but not quite so angry, and not quite as tough, generally. There is a lot of overlap between '10 and '11, depending on brand and flavor.

Yes, '18 is needed for low carbon. The lo-hy feature is not critical on thin sections and small welds, as the hydrogen can diffuse out easily as long as the cooldown isn't too fast. On heavier sections/larger welds (maybe 1/2" and up), hydrogen cracking become a real concern and lo-hy process is key. Low temperature service (like well below 0F) is also a concern for the rod type, even with thin sections. Most rods are classified at -20F, some are lower. The concern is brittleness. All metals have a 'ductile to brittle' transition temperature, and below that temperature (really a range) the toughness of the metal is very low. Some rods (7018-1, for example) are classified to retain toughness at lower temperatures.

All of this said, the only rod I carry with my portable is 6011. Cheap, readily available, no special storage needed, does 95% of the jobs. If I need something else, I pick it up for the job. Note that at work, most is 6010/7018, but we keep the rods in stock.

[wmgeorge]

Wow, thank you. Never had the reason for 7018 explained before. The 6010/11 rod has penetration which is what you really need on repair and rusted metal welding. Sure I still clean, but its nice to know, as you said that rod will weld it all, and I understand the 7018 is a insurance policy.:)

[usmcpop]

I don't know much about the types of welding rods, but I'm learning. I have samples of beads on a pile of welding tickets deposited near the front door by my welder-in-training son, LOL.

[wmgeorge]

Some rods are used for ac,,some for dc,,some rods put a root in better than others,some rods have a smoother surface,some rods you need to store in a 250 degree oven,some you had better not or coating will fall off,,,some rods run good downhill,some don't,some rods are hard to restart,some aren't so hard,some work better on real thin stuff,some not so good,,and thats all the somes I can think of now,,,thingy

Interesting you should bring up AC / DC rods, I have some Lincoln 7018 AC rod. I've been trying to run it on DC (which Lincoln says is fine) electrode Positive and it does ok (kind of), I seem to have problems controlling the slag and getting it to "look right". Today I switched to AC (my old welder was AC only) on the new welder and I'll swear it did lots better. Is this just a fluke or are 6011 and other AC rods really better on AC???

[enlpck]

The settings will be different on DC than AC, but the rods will almost always run better on DC. The times they won't have more to do with the weld situation than the rod-- AC has some uses, such as when arc blow is severe (arc blow is caused by static magnetic fields due to magnetized material or unfortunate current path when using DC). 7018AC runs fine on DC, as does 6011, 6013, etc.