3&4g 7018 Ac [Archive] - Weld Talk Message Boards

FIXXXXAH

10-18-2002, 09:55 PM

HI GUYS. THIS IS MY FIRST POST SO I'LL INTRODUCE MYSELF. MY NAME IS MATT, I'VE BEEN WELDING FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS, THROUGH MY HIGH SCHOOL. GRADUATED LAST YEAR. I'M NOT A NOVICE WELDER, AND HAVE DONE SOME INDUSTRIAL WORK AND SOME CUSTOM TUBE FRAME FABRICATION. I CAN ARC/MIG/TIG/OXY WELD, WITH MOST OF MY SKILL IN ARC AND MIG, SOME LIMITED TIG, AND OXY.

NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE SKILLS USA/VICA ORGANIZATION, BUT IT IS A TRADE CLUBS ORGANIZATION THAT PUTS ON CONTESTS EACH YEAR. I WON MY STATE COMPETITION AND PLACED 2ND AT NATIONALS LAST YEAR. I WAS INVITED TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS TO SELECT ONE PERSON TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES AT THE WORLD SKILLS COMPETITION IN SWITZERLAND NEXT YEAR. RIGHT NOW THERE ARE 19 GUYS IN THE PRELIMINARYS.

MY PROBLEM IS WITH THE 2 7018 PLATES REQUIRED. THESE ARE SET WELD PARAMETERS SO DONT JUST TELL ME TO CHANGE THEM. THE PLATES ARE 3/8" PLATE, 60 DEGREE V GROOVES WITH 3/32" ROOT FACE. ROD IS 3/32" 7018 THAT MUST BE RUN ON AC.
MY PROBLEM IS THE POROSITY STEMMING FROM THE AC CURRENT. IT SHOWS UP AT RANDOM TIMES, UNPREDICTABLY. I CAN RUN SEVERAL RODS CLEAN AND THEN HAVE ONE WITH A BELT OF POROSITY THROUGH MOST OF IT. THE 3G PLATE HAS A ROOT GAP OF 1/8" AT THE START, 5/32" AT THE FINISH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES IN THE PAGE I'M GOING TO LINK TO, THE PICTURES ARE NAMED SO THAT YOU CAN TELL WHAT THEY ARE. THE WELD SEQUENCE WENT LIKE THIS: ONE WELD CLEAN, ONE WELD DIRTY, ONE WELD CLEAN, ONE WELD DIRTY. THIS IS WHEN I BEGAN TAKING PICTURES. YOU CAN SEE THE POROSITY IN THE GROUND OUT AREA FOR THE TIE IN. I RAN ANOTHER ROD AND GROUND IT, AND IT WAS CLEAN AS YOU CAN SEE. THERE IS ALSO A PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE ROOT PASS, A PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE ROOT FACE, AND A PICTURE OF THE ROOT PASS GROUND OUT TO SHOW THE 2 AREAS OF POROSITY. SORRY THE FLASH MADE IT HARD TO SEE.
THERE ARE ALSO PICTURES OF THE 3G CAP PASS, THE 4G CAP PASS, THE 4G ROOT PASS, AND THE 2G TIG ROOT PASS. ANY COMMENTS ON THESE ARE WELCOME, I HAVE NEVER RUN WEAVES BEFORE, ALWAYS STRINGERS, SO THE WEAVES ARENT PRETTY. THE 4G PROBLEM IS WITH ROOT CONCAVITY. ITS BAD ENOUGH TO CAUSE CONCERN, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE 4G ROOT PICTURE. LIKE I SAID, I HAVE LIMITED TIG, AND MOSTLY ON ALUMINUM, SO THE TIG ROOT ISNT NICE EITHER.

http://thisdysfunctional.org/skillswelding/

ANY COMMENTS ARE APRECIATED-

MATT

Rocky D

10-19-2002, 12:10 PM

I'm not going to speak to any one plate, specifically, but give you my opinion overall. What I see is, first, you are trying too hard. Which gives you the irregularity in deposition and width of your weld. You will find that when you can concentrate less on what you are doing, your weld will improve. How? practice, practice, practice. The torch will become a feather in your hand. You will be thinking about what's for dinner, rather than where the arc is. :D Lo-Hy on AC is a little messier than on DC but I think what told about always running stringers, is IMHO not hard and fast. You CAN run weaves and especially if you are getting porosity, which could be from bad rod, or mill scale, dirty backup bar. As you travel along your weld make small arcs (curves) back and forth to stir it up. This is something you have to see, to really understand what I'm talking about. You know you have arrived when your slag will peel up behind you by itself.
As to bad rod, Lo-Hy can only be out of the oven for 4 hours before it will soak up hydrogen from the atmosphere, then you have to pop it back in the oven again, but code says you can only do that for a few times before you must discard it. (AWSD1.1)
7018 should look smooth when done.

FIXXXXAH

10-19-2002, 01:41 PM

ROCKY- IRREGULARITY IN SIZE AND DEPOSITION? I DONT KNOW, MAYBE YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE TIE IN'S? :confused: IT TAKES 5 RODS TO GO THE LENGTH OF THAT PLATE, SO THERE ARE 5 TIE INS IN THE ROOT PICTURE, I PERSONALLY DONT THINK THEY ARE VERY IRREGULAR AT ALL. IF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EXCESIVE PENETRATION IN THE START OF THE 3 AND 4G PLATES, I WAS EXPERIMENTING WITH RUNNING THE WELDS HOT TO PREVENT POROSTIY. THE RODS ARE FROM AN OVEN, ONLY OUT AND HOUR MAX BEFORE THEY ARE USED. I WILL NOTE THIS IS NOT A TRUE ROD OVEN, BUT A 2'x1 1/2'x1 1/2' STEEL BOX OF 1/4" PLATE WITH A FLOOD LAMP IN IT, BUT IT STAYS PRETTY HOT.
THERE IS NO BACKING PLATE, AS THESE ARE ALL OPEN ROOT, AND I HAVE SO FAR RESERVED REMOVAL OF THE MILL SCALE FROMTHE ROOT AND START AND STOP TABS FOR THE TIG PLATES, ITS JUST SO TIME CONSUMING. SEEMS TO ME IF THIS WERE THE SOUCE OF THE POROSITY, IT WOULD BE MORE UNIFORM AND LESS SPARATIC FROM PASS TO PASS ?
ON THE TRYING TOO HARD ISSUE, YEH, I AM, BUT I CANT HELP IT. I PUT OFF COLLEGE FOR A YEAR FOR THIS, AND ITS PRETTY IMPORTANT TO ME, SO I FIND MYSELF WITH HAND FATIGUE FROM GRIPPING THE STINGER SO HARD, SHAKING, AND OFTEN MY BREATHING IS HARSH. I'LL START TO HOLD MY BREATH AND NOT REALIZE IT UNTIL I NEED TO BREATH AGAIN.... :rolleyes:
NEVER DO ANY OF THAT NORMALLY, BUT WHAT CAN I SAY? TELLING YOURSELF ITS JUST ANOTHER PLATE DOESNT WORK, CAUSE ITS NOT.
NOT WORRIED AT ALL ABOUT THE DESTRUCTIVE TESTS,
JUST REALLY NEED THESE PLATES TO PASS THE RADIOGRAPHS....
WAY TOO MUCH STRESS....

MATT

Rocky D

10-19-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ROCKY- IRREGULARITY IN SIZE AND DEPOSITION? I DONT KNOW, MAYBE YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE TIE IN'S? :confused: IT TAKES 5 RODS TO GO THE LENGTH OF THAT PLATE, SO THERE ARE 5 TIE INS IN THE ROOT PICTURE, I PERSONALLY DONT THINK THEY ARE VERY IRREGULAR AT ALL.

MATT

Matt this is what I mean by size and depositon. 7018 should look like this.

Dan

10-19-2002, 02:13 PM

Matt

lo- hydrogen rods need to be stored in a oven at 250 degrees F. I would guess that a flood lamp isn t going to be able to create this amount of heat.

Roger

10-19-2002, 03:17 PM

No need to guess about rod oven temp. less than $10 for nice little dial thermometer.

Talk about relaxed. I've seen welders working for weeks building barges stick welding. Turn head lift helmet light a smoke or drink a coke. Welds still looked exactly the same. They probably weld in their sleep.

Ed Heimbach

10-19-2002, 03:25 PM

FIXXXXAH,
I see nothing wrong in your technique that can't be fixed with more practice. Welding has to become as automatic to you as walking. If we all had to think " unweight right foot, pick right foot up, swing right leg forward, ect." , there would be a lot of tripping going on. That is exactly what is happening, you are tripping,proficiency will only come with much time spent welding.
Some folks pick things up easier than others, I didn't get really good at 5g&6g untill I burned about a half ton of wire. That was 6010, when I had to qualify with 7018, the learning curve wasn't as steep, but it was still time consuming.
If you want the opinion of those who answer qualification questions dailey, go to www.aws.org click on forums, then click on" aws bulliten board, bbs grand central", the menu there will give you quite a few options, one of which is testing questions/ qualification information.
I hope this has been helpful.

FIXXXXAH

10-19-2002, 08:16 PM

THANKS FOR THE ROD TEMP INFO GUYS. THAT OVEN IS PRETTY HOT, BUT I'LL THROW A CANDY TEMP IN ON MONDAY AND SEE WHAT REALITY IS.

ROCKY, IS THAT 3/32 7018 AC VERT UP? I CAN LAY DOWN A FLAT [HORIZONTAL] T FILLET OR LAP JOINT ALL DAY LONG, ITS THE AC THATS MESSING ME UP. IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO THROW A PLATE OUT WITH DCRP SO THAT YOU DONT DOUBT MY ABILITY, I WILL TRY TO MAKE SOME TIME.

ED... IF YOU CHECK OUT THE TECH BOARD OVER AT AWS, YOU'LL SEE MY POST ON THAT BOARD... I DONT KNOW, I'VE BEEN RATHER DISSAPOINTED WITH THE INFO ON THE AWS BOARD, THATS WHY I CAME OVER HERE TOO. I HAVENT POSTED IN THE INSPECTION SECTION THOUGH, I WILL TRY IT OUT AND SEE WHAT I GET.

I DONT THINK ABOUT THE WELD, JUST WATCH THE KEYHOLE AND THE EDGES OF THE WELD POOL. MY BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IS GETTING CONTROL OF MY SHAKING, I CAN PRACTISE FINE BUT WHEN I START TO DO A OFFICAIL PLATE, I START TO SHAKING ALOT, THINKING TOO MUCH, GETTING INTO A RUSH, ECT.
I CANT HELP IT, JUST THE WAY I AM ABOUT THIS :(

KEEP THE INPUT COMING GUYS. WHAT ROD ANGLE WOULD YOU GUYS USE FOR THIS WELD? I HAVE GIVEN THOUGHT TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT A SLIGHT VARIATION IN ROD ANGLE COULD POSSIBLY EFFECT HOW THE FUME CLOUD SHEILDS THE ROOT SIDE OF THE WELD, POSSIBLY ALOWING ATMOSPHERIC GASES TO SNEAK IN? THE AC IS MAKING THIS KILLER....

MATT

Ed Heimbach

10-20-2002, 03:06 PM

Matt,
One more question, what kind of machine are you welding with?
Some welders have a low OCV on a. c. , this can contribute to difficulty in operating.
Btw, went to aws, saw your posts(I haven't been there in a while), some very good answers and insight there as well. I wish I could be more helpful.

BillC

10-20-2002, 07:13 PM

Matt,

I am a novice student welder, so please pardon me if this is a stupid question:

In your 3Gcap picture there are three fingers of weld bead above the main weld. What are these? restarts? terminations?

Thanks!

FIXXXXAH

10-20-2002, 07:29 PM

THOSE ARE STARTS, FEATHERED IN TO PREVENT ANY POROSITY FROM THE START CONTAMINATING THE ACTUAL WELD-
MATT

BillC

10-20-2002, 07:34 PM

Thanks, Matt!

Hobart Expert Rock

10-21-2002, 02:14 PM

FIXXXAH........OK, BEFORE MY EYE'S HEADED SOUTH AND I COULD SEE REAL GOOD THE ONLY TIME I WAS EVER SHAKEIE WAS WHEN I WAS LAYING ON THE GROUND WELDING ON MY SIDE....... MY RIGHT ARM WOULD GET SO TIRED IT WOULD SHAKE....... WELL MAYBE THAT WAS FROM THE COLD......... ANYWAY..............DO THIS AND IT WORKED FOR ME WHEN I WAS YOUNGER........DON'T LAUGH NOW........... LAY THE PROJECT OUT, THINK ABOUT IT IN YOUR MIND AS YOU LAY IT OUT ( HOW YOUR GOING TO DO IT) CLOSE YOUR EYES, THINK FOR 60 SECONDS I CAN DO THIS AFTER 30 OF THOSE SECONDS THEN SAY YES I CAN........ I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE............. PICK IT UP AND LET HER RIP.......... NOW MY GRAND KIDS LIKE TO WATCH A SHOW WITH TRAIN ENGINES (TALKING TRAIN ENGINES) ON IT, AND THEY TALK AND IT IS ONE OF THEIR THINGS THAT SAY I CAN, I CAN, YES I CAN........ IT IS NOT THE SAME THING.......... AS WITH ALL THINGS EXPERIENCE COUNTS YOU WILL GET THERE............. LOOK HOW FAR YOU'VE COME SINCE THE VICA....... DID I SEE YOUR PICTURE IN THE HOBART NEWS AS THE WINNER OF THE VICA CONTEST???????? THEY ARE BIG SUPPORTERS OF THE CONTEST AND IT IS WORTH WHILE.............. PICK WISELY OF YOUR CONTESTANTS..... NOW ENJOY THE CHALLENGE, TRY THE ROD OVEN TEMP....... ANGLE YOU CAN CHANGE SLIGHTLY ON SOME SCRAP AND SEE......... ARE YHOU DREAMING THIS STUFF IN YOUR SLEEP YET....... WHEN YOU DO MANY PROJECTS SEEM DO ABLE IN THE MORNINGS OVER COFFEE. AFTER ALL THE MIND SELDOM SLEEPS (ONLY PARTS OF IT)... BE SAFE OUT THERE........RELAX YOU'LL GET IT..............ROCKSSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

FIXXXXXAH

10-21-2002, 02:39 PM

ROCK- THANKS FOR THE PEP TALK :) WHERE DID YOU SEE THOSE PICTURES? I'VE WANTED TO SEE THEM FOREVER! I TOOK SECOND PLACE IN THE SECONDARY THIS YEAR, WERE YOU AT THE SHOW? MY NERVES ARE WHAT MESSED ME UP THERE TOO, THE FIRST DAY THE WELDERS WENT IN, WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A ADJUSTMENT DAY, TO GET USED TO THE MACHINES, THE AREA, READ A PRINT, AND TACK UP THE MAIN PROJECT. WE DID A ARC PROJECT, A FLUX CORE PROJECT, AND A TIG PROJECT. NEITHER THE ARC NOR FLUX CORE PROJECTS FROM THIS DAY COUNTED, but THE TIG WAS THE only TIG WE GOT TO DO, AND THIS IS WHAT I HAD TO DO FIRST PROJECT, FIRST DAY, WITH NERVES ON HIGH, I WAS SHAKING LIKE MAD, AND NEEDLESS TO SAY, IT WAS JUST UGLY :( I THINK THAT IS A BAD WAY TO DO IT, THERE SHOULD BE A ADJUSTMENT PROJECT AND A REAL PROJECT, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THEY USED TO HAVE IT THAT WAY :mad:

IF YOU HAVE A LINK TO THOSE PICS, I'D REALLY APRECIATE IT-

MATT

Hobart Expert Rock

10-21-2002, 02:53 PM

FIXXXAH......... WOW YOU WANT ME (ME) TO RECALL WHERE I SEEN THOSE PICTURE'S....... BESIDE IN THE HOBART NEWS... DON'T ASK MUCH DO YOU.........WELL FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH IF ANYONE HAS IT YOU CAN CONTACT MARTY BAKER AT THE HOBART LIBRARY.........IF ANYONE HAS IT SHE WILL........ THIS SHOULD BE (HOPE IT IS) AN ARCHIVED AWARD WITH A PHOTO........ I'M NOT SURE PERHAPS THE AWS HAS THE PICTURES ALSO AS THIS WAS A PROJECT THEY HAVE A HAND IN ALSO........ SEEM SOME OF THOSE PROJECTS SETTING IN DIFFERENT ANALYSIS AREA'S,,,,,,, HAHAHA... LIKE X-RAY........ ROCKWELL HARDNESS AREA'S....... EVEN A PROJECT (VICA CONTEST) SETTING HERE AT MILLER............. GOOD LUCK IN THE SEARCH........
SOMETIMES THOSE PEP TALKS WORK.......... KINDA LIKE TALKING WHILE YOU WELD.........WELL MAYBE HOLLERING AT SOME ONE FROM UNDER THE HOOD......... YOU WILL GET THERE IT COMES WITH EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE.......... FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT A GOOD ALUMINUM TIG WELDER.......... BUT I PARACTICE EVERY CHANCE I GET...... AND I EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS...... I FIND MY SELF SAYING TO MYSELF.......... BREATH, BREATH..........HAHAHA........MY BROTHER'S USUALLY ASK WHO ARE YOU TALKING TOO......................OH WELL ANOTHER STORY...... BE SAFE OUT THERE AND DON'T GIVE UP.........ROCK..........
SSCOTT@MILLERWELDS.COM

Rocky D

10-21-2002, 07:02 PM

FIXXXAH....I tried to duplicate your problem in a couple of tests I did today. I went one step further to a worst case scenario with 3/32" 7018 rod that had NEVER been in an oven....and mill scale all over the plates. I got no porosity as you can see. I didn't have your parameters, so maybe that was a factor...I just welded it by sight and sound, not settings, as I always do. I couldn't get it to bubble. Short of opening up a new can of rod, I don't know what to tell ya, on this one.

This is two plates I ran today...I didn't have any 3/8" plate so I took some scrap and duplicated the V groove, welded it that way.

The DC weld was done with a Miller XMT 304cc, and the AC was with a Syncrowave 300. I noticed also you started the arc outside the weld area and dragged it to the start point. It is not good practice to do that...it would be unacceptable in my field. Instead strike your arc about an inch or so above your start point, and drag it down to the beginning of your weld, and weld over it as you travel up. This gives your rod a chance to get up to welding temperature.

This is the face.....

Rocky D

10-21-2002, 07:02 PM

....and the back side

FIXXXXAH

10-21-2002, 08:29 PM

ROCKY- DID YOU GRIND THE WELDS OUT TO CHECK? THE POROSITY IM HAVING IS IN THE WELD, NOT VISIBLE FROM THE FACE OR ROOT.

I'M SHORTING THE ROD OUT ON THE PLATE FOR A WHILE UNTIL IT IS UP TO TEMP, THEN BREAK FREE AND START THE WELD, I'VE BEEN TOLD TO FEATHER IN WELDS YOUR NOT GOING TO GRIND FROM OUTSIDE THE WELD SO THAT YOUR NOT RUNNING BACK OVER THE CRAP FROM THE START, SO THERE IS no CHANCE OF CONTAMINATION FROM IT. WHAT FIELD ARE YOU IN?

MATT

Rocky D

10-21-2002, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ROCKY- DID YOU GRIND THE WELDS OUT TO CHECK? THE POROSITY IM HAVING IS IN THE WELD, NOT VISIBLE FROM THE FACE OR ROOT.

I'M SHORTING THE ROD OUT ON THE PLATE FOR A WHILE UNTIL IT IS UP TO TEMP, THEN BREAK FREE AND START THE WELD, I'VE BEEN TOLD TO FEATHER IN WELDS YOUR NOT GOING TO GRIND FROM OUTSIDE THE WELD SO THAT YOUR NOT RUNNING BACK OVER THE CRAP FROM THE START, SO THERE IS no CHANCE OF CONTAMINATION FROM IT. WHAT FIELD ARE YOU IN?

MATT

I'm presently doiing industrial maintenance and aircraft production welding. I never heard of starting a weld that way, Xray or otherwise. Ya learn somethin' new every day in this business. I wonder how many other weldors have heard of this technique? C'mon guys chime in!

FIXXXXAH

10-21-2002, 11:31 PM

ROCKY- RIGHT ON MAN, THATS WHERE I WANT TO HEAD [AERO FAB] CUSTOM TUBING, ALL TIG WELDED OUT.... NOT BURNIN ROD ON A BEAM ALL DAY IN SOME OIL FEILD IN TEXAS :rolleyes: IF YOU DONT MIND ME ASKIN, WHATS PAY LIKE?

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ROCKY- RIGHT ON MAN, THATS WHERE I WANT TO HEAD [AERO FAB] CUSTOM TUBING, ALL TIG WELDED OUT.... NOT BURNIN ROD ON A BEAM ALL DAY IN SOME OIL FEILD IN TEXAS :rolleyes: IF YOU DONT MIND ME ASKIN, WHATS PAY LIKE?

16 to 25 with full benefits

Tim

10-22-2002, 02:50 PM

From what I see your a real good welder. I am going to start at hobarts this comming Monday for the basic sheilded metal arc welding class. I hope I do as good as you do. If I do...I wont have a problem passing the course :)
Keep up the good work.
Tim

Dan

10-22-2002, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Rocky D
FIXXXAH.... I noticed also you started the arc outside the weld area and dragged it to the start point. It is not good practice to do that...it would be unacceptable in my field. Instead strike your arc about an inch or so above your start point, and drag it down to the beginning of your weld, and weld over it as you travel up. This gives your rod a chance to get up to welding temperature.

Rocky D & Matt

My restarts are similar to Rocky D. I strike the arc about one inch in front of the previous bead. Then long arc the rod back, to the end of my previous bead. The long arc length makes it so I am not applying any weld metal, it also gives my base metal a slight preheat so that my restart isn t cold. Also, I always feather out the end of the previous weld bead with a cut off wheel on my electric die grinder.

Matt,

Also, I noticed that it seems like you might have a little to much crown on your cover pass. Always remember on a weave to travel pretty quick across the middle. Not so quick though that your not applying weld metal or you cause the arc to break. I apologize if I m wrong on this, it is hard to tell from a picture.

FIXXXXAH

10-22-2002, 06:18 PM

DAN- LIKE I SAID, WEAVES ARE TOTALLY FOREIGN TO ME. I'VE FOUND MY WEAVES TEND TO START TO BUILD UP TOO FAST TOWARDS THE END OF EACH ROD, AS IT HEATS UP. ANY ADVISE? ALSO, WHEN RUNNING A WEAVE WITH 7018, HOW SHOULD I BE SETTING IT? I'M GOING JUST A LITTLE COOLER THAN MY HOT PASS, AND TRAVELING RATHER QUICKLY. SHOULD I BE RUNNING IT COOLER AND A LITTLE SLOWER? I FEEL LIKE I'M HAVING TO HAUL *** TOWARDS THEN END OF EACH ROD, AND THE SECTION FOR EACH ROD GOES FROM DECENT AT THE BEGGINING TO STARTING TO PULL TOWARDS THE MIDDLE AND EXCSIVE BUILD UP AT THE END.

MATT

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
DAN- LIKE I SAID, WEAVES ARE TOTALLY FOREIGN TO ME. I'VE FOUND MY WEAVES TEND TO START TO BUILD UP TOO FAST TOWARDS THE END OF EACH ROD, AS IT HEATS UP. ANY ADVISE? ALSO, WHEN RUNNING A WEAVE WITH 7018, HOW SHOULD I BE SETTING IT? I'M GOING JUST A LITTLE COOLER THAN MY HOT PASS, AND TRAVELING RATHER QUICKLY. SHOULD I BE RUNNING IT COOLER AND A LITTLE SLOWER? I FEEL LIKE I'M HAVING TO HAUL *** TOWARDS THEN END OF EACH ROD, AND THE SECTION FOR EACH ROD GOES FROM DECENT AT THE BEGGINING TO STARTING TO PULL TOWARDS THE MIDDLE AND EXCSIVE BUILD UP AT THE END.

MATT

FIX, from what I see in your welding you are weaving. Your 3g show a definate weave. So maybe we have just a semantics problem here. A weave is any movement of the rod in a pattern as you travel down our weld bead. A stringer is a steady movement of the rod in one direction like in a horizontal or flat positon.

That said, you do have too much crown, as Dan said, on the 3g. Not a structural problem tho. An employer will look at that and think you're using too much of his rod. Also, as too, grinding your craters....you will have to learn not to. The employer pays you for welding, not grinding. I've seen guys let go just for that. It is not necessary to grind all the time, you can learn to make xray welds without having to grind all the time. For, now, tho, in doing tests ya gotta make it best as you can.

You aksed me if I ground my welds out, to check for porosity...well I went one better than that...grinding can, sometimes, cover up a small pinhole, so I carbon-arced out the welds in stages.

This first is the first pass, showing no porosity.

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 07:48 PM

The second cut...

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 07:51 PM

A close up of the AC 7018 plate showing two voids.

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 08:09 PM

Here it is wire brushed, still only two voids and not close enough to cause a failure. Certifications allow voids of a certain size and distance apart. The gap closed up too much on me more than I like...Makes it harder to keyhole. Also a half inch of the ends of the test plates are discarded, anyway, in a certification.

One other thing, I just thought of, you mentioned you have to speed up near the end of the rod...one way to tell if you have the right current/heat, is that if your rod is red, at the end of a weld the current setting is too high. The flux reall breaks down, and doesn't do it's job. It should be the same color as when you started. And remember... nickel wide and a dime high...for 3/8" plate and pipe. :)

FIXXXXAH

10-22-2002, 08:49 PM

ROCKY-
THE PROCEDURES SPECIFY TO GRIND ALL STOP AND START AND THE ROOT PASS. ALSO, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT A BEND FAILURE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT X RAY CAUSE IT SHOWS everything.
AS FOR THE WEAVES, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE ALWAYS RUN STRINGERS TO THIS POINT, BUT AGAIN, THE PROCEDURES SPECIFY 3 PASSES, ROOT, HOT, AND CAP, NO STRINGERS. THATS WHY I'M ASKING FOR ADVISE FIXING THEM ;)
THE GAP AND PLATE OFFSET IS RATHER HARD TO NAIL.

MATT

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ROCKY-
THE PROCEDURES SPECIFY TO GRIND ALL STOP AND START AND THE ROOT PASS. ALSO, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT A BEND FAILURE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT X RAY CAUSE IT SHOWS everything.
AS FOR THE WEAVES, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE ALWAYS RUN STRINGERS TO THIS POINT, BUT AGAIN, THE PROCEDURES SPECIFY 3 PASSES, ROOT, HOT, AND CAP, NO STRINGERS. THATS WHY I'M ASKING FOR ADVISE FIXING THEM ;)
THE GAP AND PLATE OFFSET IS RATHER HARD TO NAIL.

MATT

Ok, ya hafta follow procedures, but keep what I said in the back of your mind, and I guarantee it'll pay off someday. Did they tell you what amount of defects would be acceptable? Three passes is good for 3/8" . You're on the right track.

Rocky D

10-22-2002, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ALSO, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT A BEND FAILURE, I'M WORRIED ABOUT X RAY CAUSE IT SHOWS everything.

MATT

Radiographic testing will most always put a weldor on edge....the tension anxiety, and so forth...I think what they call " fear of failure" is what enters in, here. It'll really mess you up.

Try to overcome this, one way is to realize that if you do fail, it isn't the end of the world, and it doesn't mean you are a failure, but only that the chunk of steel they just took a picture of has a problem. And by each time they shoot your weld, you will learn by it. Many times it is not your fault, either. Just weld it like you would always weld it, and let the chips fall where they may. I know it may take time to feel this way about it, but you will, if you persevere with patience.

YOU CAN DO THIS!

FIXXXXAH

10-23-2002, 01:54 AM

ROCKY- I MUST SAY, THE INSTRUCTIONS THEY GIVE US HAVE THIS KNACK FOR BEING VERY PRECISE AND VAGUE AT THE SAME TIME :rolleyes: I'M WAITING FOR THE FIRST SET OF SCORES, WHICH I MUST SAY IS RATHER NERVE RACKING... HOPE THEY COME OUT WELL. WHAT I REALLY HOPE IS THAT THEY SEND US THE XRAYS SO I CAN SEE WHAT I NEED TO FIX, BUT I DONT THINK THEY DO :confused:

THINK I JUST NEED SOME VALIUM ;)

MATT

steelhanger

10-23-2002, 06:45 AM

Valium, thats a good one . Long time back I worked with a guy that was so cool that he didn't even lift his hood when we would whack the beam he was sitting on with a sledge.
He would finish that bead, then turn and as us if we thought we were being funny. We called him Prince Valium.

Dan

10-23-2002, 11:13 AM

Rocky D

10-23-2002, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
ROCKY- I MUST SAY, THE INSTRUCTIONS THEY GIVE US HAVE THIS KNACK FOR BEING VERY PRECISE AND VAGUE AT THE SAME TIME :rolleyes: I'M WAITING FOR THE FIRST SET OF SCORES, WHICH I MUST SAY IS RATHER NERVE RACKING... HOPE THEY COME OUT WELL. WHAT I REALLY HOPE IS THAT THEY SEND US THE XRAYS SO I CAN SEE WHAT I NEED TO FIX, BUT I DONT THINK THEY DO :confused:

THINK I JUST NEED SOME VALIUM ;)

MATT

Matt, Is the rod red when you burn it down to the end? If so, the flux will break down, and not do it's job and give you horrendous porosity.

BTW, as I have said before, "You gotta be sick to take drugs when you're well!" :)

Dan

10-23-2002, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Rocky D

Matt, Is the rod red when you burn it down to the end? If so, the flux will break down, and not do it's job and give you horrendous porosity.

BTW, as I have said before, "You gotta be sick to take drugs when you're well!" :)

Matt

The past couple days I have been pondering what you are doing to the rod by using your unusual starting technique. I know when I was trying to figure out how to weld on my own (before my schooling) that if I stuck the rod real good for a few seconds it would start turning cherry red and the coating on the rod would discolor. After this the rod didn t work as well.

Since your wanting to weld as a profession you need to seriously rethink your technique that you use on your restarts. For one you aren t going to be employed for very long if the boss catches you "dead" shorting the rod to the basemetal. This is very hard on the machine. You could burn it up doing this.

FIXXXXAH

10-23-2002, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Dan
when I was trying to figure out how to weld on my own (before my schooling) that if I stuck the rod real good for a few seconds it would start turning cherry red...
... you need to seriously rethink your technique that you use on your restarts. For one you aren t going to be employed for very long if the boss catches you "dead" shorting the rod to the basemetal. This is very hard on the machine. You could burn it up doing this.

DAN-
THIS ISNT REALLY "MY" RESTART TECHNIQUE, IT WAS SUGGESTED BY ED BOHNART, USA TECHNICAL WELDING EXPERT FOR THE WORLD SKILLS COMPETITION, ALSO AN AWS CHAIR MEMEBER. WE CONTACTED HIM INITIALLY TO ASK ABOUT THE POROSITY PROBLEMS AND HE SAID HE HAD SEEN GUYS DO THIS AT THE WORLD COMPETITION... I DONT KNOW, IT REALLY SEAMS TO ME THAT IN THE WELDING COMMUNITY, WHEN IT COMES TO TECHNICAL INFORMATION, WHICH SHOULD HAVE SPECIFIED "RIGHT" AND "WRONGS" THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF CONFLICTING OPINIONS :rolleyes:

WE'LL SEE WHATS UP WHEN I GET BACK TO DOING SOME PLATES, MAYBE THE END OF THE WEEK....

MATT

BillC

10-23-2002, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH

DAN-
THIS ISNT REALLY "MY" RESTART TECHNIQUE, IT WAS SUGGESTED BY ED BOHNART, USA TECHNICAL WELDING EXPERT FOR THE WORLD SKILLS COMPETITION, ALSO AN AWS CHAIR MEMEBER. WE CONTACTED HIM INITIALLY TO ASK ABOUT THE POROSITY PROBLEMS AND HE SAID HE HAD SEEN GUYS DO THIS AT THE WORLD COMPETITION... <<SNIP>>

MATT

Sounds like a strange competition to me... I have mentioned your plight to several of my professional welder friends at work, as well as my welding instructor and they have all consistently voiced the same responses. No none understands why you would weld 7018 with AC, and they look at me like I'M crazy when I tell them about intentionally grounding the rod as part of the arc strike process. We all understand that you don't have control over the process; it just seems very distant from real world practices...

Seems a little extreme to go to such measures for X-Ray quality welds in a competition when no professional welder would ever do such a thing in the real world...

Nonetheless, Good Luck with your competition!

FIXXXXAH

10-23-2002, 08:52 PM

BILL-
HAHA EVERYONE SAYS THE SAME THING TO ME, NO ONES UNDERSTANDS THE ONLY REASON THEY HAVE US DO THIS IS BECAUSE ITS FREAKING HARD, THOSE WHO CAN OVERCOME IT COME OUT ON TOP. RIGHT NOW I'M WAITING TO SEE MY FRIST 2 TEST SCORES, SHOULD GIVE A GENERAL FEEL FOR WHERE I STAND, I'M STILL REALLY DISSAPPOINTED WITH THE PLATES I'VE SENT OUT, THE TIME CONSTRAINTS ARE REALLY EFFECTING THE QUALITY OF MY WORK. TOO MUCH STRESS MAN...

DAN-
FORGOT TO MENTION, I'M NOT SHORTING THE ROD TILL ITS RED HOT AND SMOKING OR ANYTHING, JUST A 2-3 SECOND SHORT AND THEN BREAK AND GO. I HAVE FOUND THAT I HAVE A HARD TIME STRIKING AN ARC WITH LOWER AMPS IN OVERHEAD.

MATT

Dan

10-23-2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by BillC

Sounds like a strange competition to me... I have mentioned your plight to several of my professional welder friends at work, as well as my welding instructor and they have all consistently voiced the same responses. No none understands why you would weld 7018 with AC, and they look at me like I'M crazy when I tell them about intentionally grounding the rod as part of the arc strike process. We all understand that you don't have control over the process; it just seems very distant from real world practices...

Seems a little extreme to go to such measures for X-Ray quality welds in a competition when no professional welder would ever do such a thing in the real world...

Nonetheless, Good Luck with your competition!

Bill C

I ve been thinking basically the same thing. This is a bizarre contest. I don t understand why they are having young adults who are interested in entering this field as a profession perform procedures that are so different then what is really done. Besides 7018AC who runs 7018 on AC? Nobody I know.

Rocky D

10-23-2002, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Dan

Bill C

I ve been thinking basically the same thing. This is a bizarre contest. I don t understand why they are having young adults who are interested in entering this field as a profession perform procedures that are so different then what is really done. Besides 7018AC who runs 7018 on AC? Nobody I know.

Dan and Bill, you saw the test I did...I didn't see much difference running on AC. Certainly not the porosity that FiX had...I don't understand it...and I used wet rod, and thru mill scale to boot! I like to push the envelope. :D I still didn't get porosity.

The grounding of the electrode is a practice the old time welders used when their rod got wet and didn't have any way of getting dry rod in the field. Now that I think about it, when you stick 7018, the flux falls off when you break it loose. Not like 6010. I would love to be there and watch him run some.

Good luck FIX.

Chris

10-24-2002, 12:31 AM

Matt,
I have only been welding for about 6 years and I remember in school when I would be shaking so bad I felt totally useless, BUT I didn't let it overcome me and did exactly what you are doing; ask questions. I found out that my problem was my diet. I used to eat too many sweets and drink 2 or 3 caffinated drinks (large size) every day. Now, thanks to my interest in welding I live a lot healthier lifestyle. I eat very little sweets and only drink about 3 can soft drinks a week. What a difference. Also, I used to find myself holding my breath while welding. I would gasp for air and mess up a hard worked for prep-and-weld job. My teacher saw me doing this and told me to take a few quick deep breaths before I start a weld to get the O2 in my blood and then breath in rhythm. I hope this will help you.
Good luck and Most important, Have Fun!
Chris

BillC

10-28-2002, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
<<SNIP>>RIGHT NOW I'M WAITING TO SEE MY FRIST 2 TEST SCORES, SHOULD GIVE A GENERAL FEEL FOR WHERE I STAND, I'M STILL REALLY DISSAPPOINTED WITH THE PLATES I'VE SENT OUT, THE TIME CONSTRAINTS ARE REALLY EFFECTING THE QUALITY OF MY WORK. TOO MUCH STRESS MAN...

So Matt, did you get the results back from your test plates yet? Everyone's rooting for you here!

FIXXXXXAH

10-28-2002, 01:34 PM

BILL-
NOT YET, THEY SENT AN EMAIL SAYING WE WILL GET THE RESULTS FROM OUR FIRST 3 SHIPMENTS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WELL, THE THIRD SHIPMENT GOES OUT NEXT MONDAY, SO I DONT EXPECT RESULTS FOR 2-3 WEEKS. GREAT THAT WE GET THE RESULTS AFTER 3 SHIPMENTS, WHEN THERE'S ONLY 5 TOTAL HUH? YOUR PROBOLY 4/5 DONE BY THEY TIME YOU KNOW HOW YOUR DOING AND WHAT YOU NEED TO FIX :rolleyes:

MATT

Pin Head

10-28-2002, 07:47 PM

So Matt, when are you going to quit fooling around with this test and fixx your cruzah?

FIXXXXAH

10-29-2002, 12:37 AM

WHEN TIME PERMITS BROH- WILL HAVE THE REAR DISCS DONE, MINUS THE LINES, TOMARROW, THEN THE ENGINE MOUNTS ARE NEXT....

I HAD A FEELING THIS WAS GONNA BE HERE WHEN I SAW THE NAME ON THE LAST POST :p

MATT

FIXXXXAH

11-04-2002, 10:21 PM

OK, WELL WITH A CHANGE TO FRESH ROD, AND TO A DIFFERNT ROD [EXCALIBER] AND SOME TIPS FROM THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE, IN ONE DAY MY PROBLEM IS SOLVED [HOPE SO AT LEAST]
DID BOTH 7018 PLATES TODAY WITH no POROSTIY WHAT SO EVER, AND A GREATLY IMPROVED ROOT APPEARANCE ON THE OVERHEAD. HERE'S THE OVERHEAD ROOT [THE STARTS ON BOTH PLATES ARE TOO HOT, HAD NO MORE METAL TO SET NEW ROD ON, RATHER BE HOT THAN COLD]

FIXXXXAH

11-04-2002, 10:24 PM

DIFFERENT ANGLE OF SAME OVERHEAD ROOT

Rocky D

11-04-2002, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
DIFFERENT ANGLE OF SAME OVERHEAD ROOT

Matt, say a root pass?? Looks like you almost did it in one pass...the groove looks full aready. I like to fill the groove just enough so that the cover pass won't hang down too much and look ugly...also you need the straight edges of the groove to help keep you straight on your cover pass.

Overhead welding is litterally a pain in the neck!:D

FIXXXXAH

11-04-2002, 11:57 PM

HAHAHA ROCKY-
SORRY MAN, I GUESS I HAVE A HARD TIME EXPLAINGIN WHAT I MEAN... THAT IS THE ROOT SIDE, OF THE ROOT PASS, AS IN THE SIDE THAT IS FACING TOWARDS THE HEAVENS AS YOUR WELDING IT FROM THE UNDERSIDE.

HERE'S A PIC OF THE ROOT [BACKSIDE] OF THE 3G PLATE

Royal Fe

11-05-2002, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Chris
Matt,
I have only been welding for about 6 years and I remember in school when I would be shaking so bad I felt totally useless, BUT I didn't let it overcome me and did exactly what you are doing; ask questions. I found out that my problem was my diet. I used to eat too many sweets and drink 2 or 3 caffinated drinks (large size) every day. Now, thanks to my interest in welding I live a lot healthier lifestyle. I eat very little sweets and only drink about 3 can soft drinks a week. What a difference. Also, I used to find myself holding my breath while welding. I would gasp for air and mess up a hard worked for prep-and-weld job. My teacher saw me doing this and told me to take a few quick deep breaths before I start a weld to get the O2 in my blood and then breath in rhythm. I hope this will help you.
Good luck and Most important, Have Fun!
Chris

Matt,
Chris here is on the right track with nerves and a steady hand. Cudos to the diet thing but the most important and easiest factor to control your nerve is to focus your thoughts on something more elementary than the whole task at hand. A Shooter in any competition, a Pilot during emergencies, or even a Pro Snow Boarder will tell you the biggest factor in their success is to focus on elementary tasks that build to the final process. This is how they control thought processes and therefore nerves in very difficult situations.

Breathing properly is a portion of controlling your nerves. Your body needs O2 and when you hold your breath your oxygen saturation in your blood starts to decrease and the first thing affected by this is your vision followed by muscles. You won't be able to detect this until your pretty deficient in O2 but it is still happening and aggravating your nervous condition. You are in a heightened state of function due to the nerves and O2 is the most important link in your body's cycle. A steady rhythm and cycling of oxygen for you, the real "welding machine", is extremely important.

When you are getting your A$$ kicked by nerves try to twist one of those steel plates in two by hand and count your breathing like a pregnant woman giving birth! Focus on breathing and do a three count IN and three count OUT or whatever number works for you. Do you count when you weld for a rhythm to your pattern? Try integrating your breathing into your welding rhythm and that will help you control your nerves. Focus on the elementary portions of the task and this should help control your thought process as well as your body.

Just talkin' smack.

Rocky D

11-05-2002, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Royal Fe

Matt,
Chris here is on the right track with nerves and a steady hand. Cudos to the diet thing but the most important and easiest factor to control your nerve is to focus your thoughts on something more elementary than the whole task at hand. A Shooter in any competition, a Pilot during emergencies, or even a Pro Snow Boarder will tell you the biggest factor in their success is to focus on elementary tasks that build to the final process. This is how they control thought processes and therefore nerves in very difficult situations.

Breathing properly is a portion of controlling your nerves. Your body needs O2 and when you hold your breath your oxygen saturation in your blood starts to decrease and the first thing affected by this is your vision followed by muscles. You won't be able to detect this until your pretty deficient in O2 but it is still happening and aggravating your nervous condition. You are in a heightened state of function due to the nerves and O2 is the most important link in your body's cycle. A steady rhythm and cycling of oxygen for you, the real "welding machine", is extremely important.

When you are getting your A$$ kicked by nerves try to twist one of those steel plates in two by hand and count your breathing like a pregnant woman giving birth! Focus on breathing and do a three count IN and three count OUT or whatever number works for you. Do you count when you weld for a rhythm to your pattern? Try integrating your breathing into your welding rhythm and that will help you control your nerves. Focus on the elementary portions of the task and this should help control your thought process as well as your body.

Just talkin' smack.

Man! I find myself checking my breathing just reading this post!!! :D It's like someone saying..."Don't think pink!" Then what do ya think of??? :D :D :D

Ken O

11-06-2002, 07:50 AM

I'm a little late getting here on this thread. I too have never herd of sticking the rod to warm it up out of the weld zone, then drag it in, it seem to me if you do this, you take a chance on breaking the flux off the end of the rod, thus making more porosity. I always scratch start (not hammer start) an inch or so on the side of the bevel, and drag it in. If there is no bevel left, strike on your weld in front of where you are going to weld.
I recently retired, my experience has been welding pressure vessels new and repair, like neuclear reactors, petroleum reactors, boiler tubes and headers.
When building and repairing boilers, you cant start ahead of your weld. You weld with a partner on the other side of the tube wall. After tiging the root, the stick is done by using one machine for both welders. A "Y" or buddy whip is put in the lead, you start the weld on the front of the tube, "pass the puddle" to your patner at the side, his rod comes in, and yours comes out at the same time, the weld is contiuous. While the puddle is on the other side of the tube, you chip your slag, check your rod etc. It takes time to get syched when getting a new partner, maybe some grinding usually at the side. Everything is X-rayed. It doesnt take too many bad pictures to lose your job, or taken off the welding.
And like Rocky says, experience will relax you. I had a partner that had a hole in his shield so he could smoke a cigar. There are several teams of welders on big projects, and there is consevation going on all the time while welding, and singing to the radio.

Al T.

11-06-2002, 08:26 AM

I almost spit out my coffee reading about the cigar hole in the shield.
That had to be a sight!

FIXXXXAH

11-06-2002, 09:34 AM

I DONT MEAN TO SOUND RUDE WHEN I SAY THIS, BUT PLEASE DONT POST STUFF THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID NUMEROUS TIMES GUYS... I MEAN, THE ONLY WAY I'M GOING TO CALM DOWN IS WHEN I START GETTING RESULTS I'M SATISFIED WITH, AND I'M GETTING CLOSER WITH THE CHANGES IN ROD AND TECHNIQUE. I'VE ALREADY HEARD PLENTY ABOUT NOT FEATHERING FROM THE SIDE, AND I NO LONGER DO IT, AND PRACTISE MY NORMAL START [YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND I WAS TOLD DO THAT BY MY INSTRUCTOR, WHO WAS A TIGER TEAM WELDER] AND I ONLY TRIED THE SHORTING THE ROD TRICK A FEW TIMES WHEN I WAS TRYING TO CURE MY POROSITY PROBLEM [AND THIS WAS SUGGESTED BY ED BOHNART]

SO... NOW THAT WE ALL KNOW THESE THINGS, WE CAN LET THE GO, EH?

HERE'S THE NEW QUESTION [I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE STILL READING THIS THREAD] I GOT INTO A DEBATE ABOUT ROD OVEN TEMPS. SHOULD THE ROD ITSELF BE 250 DEGREES WHEN YOU PUL IT OUT OF THE OVEN, OR DOES IT JUST NEED TO BE IN A OVEN THAT IS 250 DEGREES INSIDE? I TOOK THE SIDE FO THE ROD SHOULD BE 25O, AND I FIGURE IF I AM WRONG, I DOUBT THAT LITTLE EXTRA HEAT COULD DO ANY HARM TO THE FLUX...

SO, WHOS RIGHT? ALSO, DAN, ROCKY, ANYONE ELSE, GRAB SOME 3/32" 7018 AND AND 3/8" PLATE WITH 30 DEGREE BEVELS, DO A ROOT, HOT AND CAP PASS, AND POST UP THE best LOOKING CAP YOU CAN DO IN THE VERTICAL AND OVERHEAD POSITIONS. YOU NEED NOR BE USING AC ON THE CAP AS WE ARE ALLOWED A CDRP CAP. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT I AM LOOKING TO CREATE. THE REINFORCEMENT SHOULD BE MORE THAN FLUSH, BUT LESS THAN 3/32"

I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE BUSY, SO IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME UNDERSTAND, BUT I WOULD APRECIATE IT.

MATT

Rocky D

11-06-2002, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH

HERE'S THE NEW QUESTION [I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE STILL READING THIS THREAD] I GOT INTO A DEBATE ABOUT ROD OVEN TEMPS. SHOULD THE ROD ITSELF BE 250 DEGREES WHEN YOU PUL IT OUT OF THE OVEN, OR DOES IT JUST NEED TO BE IN A OVEN THAT IS 250 DEGREES INSIDE? I TOOK THE SIDE FO THE ROD SHOULD BE 25O, AND I FIGURE IF I AM WRONG, I DOUBT THAT LITTLE EXTRA HEAT COULD DO ANY HARM TO THE FLUX...

SO, WHOS RIGHT? ALSO, DAN, ROCKY, ANYONE ELSE, GRAB SOME 3/32" 7018 AND AND 3/8" PLATE WITH 30 DEGREE BEVELS, DO A ROOT, HOT AND CAP PASS, AND POST UP THE best LOOKING CAP YOU CAN DO IN THE VERTICAL AND OVERHEAD POSITIONS. YOU NEED NOR BE USING AC ON THE CAP AS WE ARE ALLOWED A CDRP CAP. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT I AM LOOKING TO CREATE. THE REINFORCEMENT SHOULD BE MORE THAN FLUSH, BUT LESS THAN 3/32"

I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE BUSY, SO IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME UNDERSTAND, BUT I WOULD APRECIATE IT.

MATT

I appreciate the challenge, Matt, I'd like to see some good welds from the guys out there, too. I've seen some beautiful welds from some folks in the past.

As far as the exact temp of the rods in a hot box, IMHO, AWS only put the numbers in there because that's what they do...quantify EVERYTHING. In reality, if you have the oven at 250, you'll open it up one day and find it full of burritos! :D

Most folks don't keep their rod hot, continuously, all the time...and in my field, I have used cold rod, and haven't had any problems with it. However, the rod should be kept moisture free and it dosen't need to be 250 degrees. BTW the answer to your question...it's the oven that is 250 degrees.

Dan

11-06-2002, 03:44 PM

Matt
Think about it this way, you can use a fresh box right off the welding supply store shelf as long as the containers seal hasn t been broken. After 4 hours in normal conditions the rod needs to go to the oven. However, my reference material states that if these rods are for x ray work they need to be baked for at least two hours at 500 to 800 degrees after this exposure. And then after this keep them stored in the oven at 250 degrees. So if you get a new box your best procedure to follow is open the box put the rods in the oven and only grab what you can use in a short period of time. Less hassle this way. Now if the rods were for non x ray welds then it would be fine to bake the exposed rod for at least one (preferrably 2) hour(s) at 250 degrees. Now my understanding on the 250 degrees for the rod oven is that water (moisture) boils at 212 degrees and by having the oven at 250 degrees you are most definately going to boil out (evaporate) a very high level of moisture from the rods that are in the oven.

Sorry, I have no time to perform your challenge test. Besides the fact that I have never ran an open root pass with 7018. Only 6010, 6011, or TIG.

Anyway though, I hope I have at least helped you answer your question

BillC

11-06-2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
<<SNIP>>
HERE'S THE NEW QUESTION [I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE STILL READING THIS THREAD] I GOT INTO A DEBATE ABOUT ROD OVEN TEMPS. SHOULD THE ROD ITSELF BE 250 DEGREES WHEN YOU PUL IT OUT OF THE OVEN, OR DOES IT JUST NEED TO BE IN A OVEN THAT IS 250 DEGREES INSIDE? I TOOK THE SIDE FO THE ROD SHOULD BE 25O, AND I FIGURE IF I AM WRONG, I DOUBT THAT LITTLE EXTRA HEAT COULD DO ANY HARM TO THE FLUX...
<<SNIP>>
MATT

Matt,

If the oven is set for 250F the rods will be 250F when you take them out. That assumes you leave them in long enough to get hot. AWS requires a minimum four hour hold at a minimum 250F temperature after short term exposure to the atmosphere. Longer exposure requires a rebake at 500-800F for two hours prior to storage.

If the rod doesn't get any hotter than that when you short it you are probably right that it doesn't hurt...

FIXXXXAH

11-06-2002, 06:35 PM

I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS BAD ROD THAT WAS CAUSING ALL OF MY POROSITY PROBLEMS. IT WAS A SAMPLE BOX, MAYBE AROUND 10 LBS OF ROD, THAT YOU COULD TELL SOMEONE JSUT GRABBED OUT OF A BIN. THE ROD HAD TO BE SHIPPED OVER FROM COLORADO OR SOMEWHERE AND I THINK THE DUDE SHIPPING IT GAVE US THEIR OLDEST ROD :rolleyes: I POPPED OPEN THE NEW 50 OF EXCALIBER, AND RAN BOTH 3 AND 4 G'S ALL THE WAY THROUGH WITH no POROSITY, EXCEPT A LITTLE BIT IN THE START AREA OF THE PLATE [FOUND OUT I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO USE START/STOP TABS... WISH THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT :ROLLEYES:

DAN-
EVEN IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME, IF YOU HAVE ANY PICTURES OF A 7018 WEAVE OF COMPRABLE SIZE THAT IS VERTICAL OR OVERHEAD, POST IT. I NEED AN IDEA OF WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.

THANKS,
MATT

Rocky D

11-06-2002, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS BAD ROD THAT WAS CAUSING ALL OF MY POROSITY PROBLEMS. IT WAS A SAMPLE BOX, MAYBE AROUND 10 LBS OF ROD, THAT YOU COULD TELL SOMEONE JSUT GRABBED OUT OF A BIN. THE ROD HAD TO BE SHIPPED OVER FROM COLORADO OR SOMEWHERE AND I THINK THE DUDE SHIPPING IT GAVE US THEIR OLDEST ROD :rolleyes: I POPPED OPEN THE NEW 50 OF EXCALIBER, AND RAN BOTH 3 AND 4 G'S ALL THE WAY THROUGH WITH no POROSITY, EXCEPT A LITTLE BIT IN THE START AREA OF THE PLATE [FOUND OUT I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO USE START/STOP TABS... WISH THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT :rolleyes:

DAN-
EVEN IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME, IF YOU HAVE ANY PICTURES OF A 7018 WEAVE OF COMPRABLE SIZE THAT IS VERTICAL OR OVERHEAD, POST IT. I NEED AN IDEA OF WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.

THANKS,
MATT

I think you've seen this one before, but overhead is not any different.