Which lube/coolant? Too many choices

[Spook2]

I have a liquid cooled 7x12 saw and a 14x40 lathe that I need to buy this stuff for. For simplicity sake for me and everyone that cares to help out I'd like to buy it from Enco, which is www.use-enco.com. The problem is that I'm clueless and there is a cubic a**-load of choices for this stuff on their website.

I wouldn't be cutting anything exotic in the saw or lathe either one. I will end up working a fair amount of copper if that makes any difference. I have gathered that with some of the choices there are concerns with the liquid going rancid so I wouldn't mind avoiding that little issue. I also don't really want to spend a $1000/gal. for it either. Remember, I'm a rank amateur/hack not intending to make parts for the space shuttle so I don't need the high-zoot stuff.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

As soon as I figure out how to resize pictures on this mac I'll upload some photos of the lathe I stole.

[Hotfoot]

LPS Aqua Cut. I get mine from ENCO by the gallon when they have their free shipping over $50.00 specials...toss in a couple Morse Bi-Metal blades, and that gets it! Its great, does not rust, does not leave a mess (like my LPS Gold used to). Is fantastic for drilling, also! I just squirt as needed with an oil trigger can. (Tried an auto oiler, and it wasted too much fluid.)

Plus, it smells nice!:p

[Broccoli1]

Spook2,

The Mac does not have any resizing software.

You can upload the photo to Photobucket and there is an option under Edit for WEB and it will resize for you. If you have High speed this is a snap but for Dial up it probably is too much trouble since you will uploading a large file and it will be slow.

From there you can either link the Photo directly or after it has been resized drag it off the Photobucket page on to your Desktop, then you can upload from the Mac.

Kind of a roundabout way unless you want to download software for resizing.

[Spook2]

LPS Aqua Cut. I get mine from ENCO by the gallon when they have their free shipping over $50.00 specials...toss in a couple Morse Bi-Metal blades, and that gets it! Its great, does not rust, does not leave a mess (like my LPS Gold used to). Is fantastic for drilling, also! I just squirt as needed with an oil trigger can. (Tried an auto oiler, and it wasted too much fluid.)

Plus, it smells nice!:p



I'll be darned if I can find it on their site. You wouldn't have a part or mfgr. number would you?

[Spook2]

Spook2,

The Mac does not have any resizing software.




Mac, the supposed King of graphics and video related chores, has NO included software for the simple task of resizing a picture? Figures. :) Thanks for the tip about photobucket though.

[Spook2]

I'll be darned if I can find it on their site. You wouldn't have a part or mfgr. number would you?


And I'll be darned if I couldn't find my butthole with a funnel. IOW, never mind, I found it. :)

[FarmallMan]

Its www.use-enco.com They're a good place to buy blades from also...

Nick :cool:

[vicegrip]

For the umteenth time ...........
if we that get pay-checks for machining can do by far the bulk of our work dry.

Then so can you ......
cleaner for you, better for your machinery.

go to half-price books stc.
and buy an old copy of Machinery's Handbook.

And get a grasp of surface feet per minute..

It's just not that hard to get just below the heat-dissapation threash-hold of any operation.

Dam'n , I need to take some revealing videos , I guess.

Cheers
vg

[usmcpop]

When I was a kid, my dentist used a dry drill when hogging out my cavities. Didn't seem to bother him a bit :eek:

[Broccoli1]

Dam'n , I need to take some revealing videos , I guess.

Cheers
vg

ummm No I'm good without any revealing Videos of the Vicegrip:p

[Broccoli1]

Mac, the supposed King of graphics and video related chores, has NO included software for the simple task of resizing a picture? Figures. :) Thanks for the tip about photobucket though.

Yeah, I guess they figure yer gonna get a Graphics program :)

The Imovie is pretty sweet though

[FarmallMan]

And get a grasp of surface feet per minute.

That's the biggest key to tool life and cut quality, at least in my experience.

The benefit to running coolant, in most cases, is the fact that it flushes the chips away so they aren't recut. No good comes from recutting chips. I have been hearing more and more from tooling companies not to run coolant, that the thermal shock of the water hitting the tool causes cracks in the inserts and drastically reduces life.

First choice is dry, but for home shop use, I've been told that coolant misters are the way to go because they clear the chips but don't make a huge mess. What I use most is WD-40 in a squirt bottle. It works very well on Aluminum.

Nick :cool:

[Mechtech]

For general machining you shouldn't need coolant. The only times I use coolant here at work are when machining materials that can react when heated or when finely divided (chips/powder). The last time I used coolant was with a block of Zirconium that I had to cut a slice off of, since fine Zirconium oxidizes quickly (read burn) the flood coolant was required to remove and inhibit the chips from igniting. That said the coolant we use is Kleen Kool from DoAll, the general shop uses the 100 (ferrous/copper alloys) and I use the 300 (all metals). Its about $100 for a 5 gal bucket athttp://www.dgisupply.com

[vicegrip]

That's the biggest key to tool life and cut quality, at least in my experience.

What I use most is WD-40 in a squirt bottle. It works very well on Aluminum.

Nick :cool:

Amen to WD-40,

Oh , for mess-free turning of virtually any alloy that can be done with hand-ground H.S. bits.
(8% cobalt even better).

Buy a bulk can of vasaline, and a width-selection of cheap (natural-bristle) paint-brushes !!

Paste a thin film on before each pass , great surface finnish , virtually no clean-up.

vg

[Batti]

No videos for me either, thanks. I did learn a new unit of measure in this thread though - the cubic a**-load. :D

[Broccoli1]

No videos for me either, thanks. I did learn a new unit of measure in this thread though - the cubic a**-load. :D

Really what we have in this area is

B.u.t.t. load- sort of the base unit- will take a while

S.h.i.t load - A little more than a B-Load but definitely more of a PIA type of job

A.s.s load- this is the type of load delivered 5 mins before you are supposed to get off work

Metric or Cubic A.s.s load- Slang for more than a regular A.s.s load as an A.s.s load has not been standardized
:)

[Broccoli1]

Mac, the supposed King of graphics and video related chores, has NO included software for the simple task of resizing a picture? Figures. :) Thanks for the tip about photobucket though.

Spook,

I found it:) I have PS so I don't ever use it.

Anyway Open the Photo in Preview, then go to Tools, Adjust size:)

and you can adjust Color, Exposure, Rotate, Crop and more

[Spook2]

Really what we have in this area is

B.u.t.t. load- sort of the base unit- will take a while

S.h.i.t load - A little more than a B-Load but definitely more of a PIA type of job

A.s.s load- this is the type of load delivered 5 mins before you are supposed to get off work

Metric or Cubic A.s.s load- Slang for more than a regular A.s.s load as an A.s.s load has not been standardized
:)


This is correct except for the very last which is actually two separate measurements.

It goes... (in order of size)

Cubic A.s.s.load

Metric F.*.*.k. ton (largest mass measurement currently known to man)


As in "my ex MIL could eat a Cubic A.s.s. load of food so consequently she weighed a Metric F.*.*.K ton.

[usmcpop]

... As in "my ex MIL could eat a Cubic A.s.s. load of food so consequently she weighed a Metric F.*.*.K ton.

Yep, don't confuse volume and weight measurements, nor the metric conversions. In the old days, they used to measure MIL's backsides by the width of an axe handle. Scary stuff.

[Spook2]

For the umteenth time ...........
if we that get pay-checks for machining can do by far the bulk of our work dry.

Then so can you ......
cleaner for you, better for your machinery.

go to half-price books stc.
and buy an old copy of Machinery's Handbook.

And get a grasp of surface feet per minute..

It's just not that hard to get just below the heat-dissapation threash-hold of any operation.

Dam'n , I need to take some revealing videos , I guess.

Cheers
vg



I don't really expect to need it on a daily basis. It is more of a I have it IF I need it situation. I can't imagine needing coolant on the lathe to just cut copper and aluminum, but if I happen to get into the odd thing where it would be beneficial to have it , well I'll have it.

I've found that as the numbers in my age increase the level of my patience decreases in a disproportionate fashion. IOW, if I were in a situation that I really should be using a lube/coolant and didn't have it, odds are I'd cut anyway rather than wait for the UPS guy to bring me some, and risk burning something up. :)

I've been using WD40 but wasn't sure if it was suitable or not, but apparently it is so that was a helpful bit of info, as well as the info about vasoline. That never even occurred to me!


On a semi-related note, what would be a good way oil to use? Right now I've been using 3 in 1 oil since I figured it has to be better than nothing.

[tailshaft56]

I sometimes use some weater soluable coolant just brushed on full strength.

[Spook2]

Spook,

I found it:) I have PS so I don't ever use it.

Anyway Open the Photo in Preview, then go to Tools, Adjust size:)

and you can adjust Color, Exposure, Rotate, Crop and more



I must be brain dead because in Preview I can't find an option for adjusting the size.

[FarmallMan]

Get ACTUAL way oil. Your machine will thank you. 3 in 1 is nowhere viscous enough. Get Vactra #2 or equivalent. McMaster-Carr will sell you Vactra or their generic equivalent (which is what I use) costs $8/gal last time I bought some.

www.mcmaster.com if you didn't know...

Nick :cool:

[Spook2]

Hopefully these pics come through. I always have a heck of a time trying to post photos in these forums. I can never remember how to do it.

The first pic is supposed to be of the lathe. It's fully functional and doesn't appear to have any significant wear (according to my incredibly precise micro-vision). It's a 16 speed 13x40 with a spindle brake.

The second pic is of the tooling I got. There were 2 or 3 more of the quick change tool holders but by the time the auction was over some scumbag had walked off with them. I can't figure out why he didn't get the 2 that are in the picture.

The lathe wasn't in a machine shop but rather in a heavy equipment repair company of the mom and pop variety. It doesn't appear to have had a tremendous amount of use. I'm guessing they used it for turning pins and such for mounting backhoe buckets, pinchers, etc. I'm guessing that for $600 I did ok. I'll spend more than that just buying basic tooling for it.


http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=25402&stc=1&d=1201673063


http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=25403&stc=1&d=1201673063

[FarmallMan]

Looks like you didn't do too bad at all. Is your tool post an actual Aloris, or is it a copy? If it's a copy, don't feel too bad about the other holders - they aren't nearly as expensive as the Aloris branded ones.

The more expensive stuff appears to be there: the three jaw, four jaw, and collet chucks. Did you get any collets with the machine? Enco has 5C collet sets fairly inexpensively. Also, the carriage stops will save you a lot of aggrevation if you're doing a lot of repeated operations.

Do you have much experience running lathes? If not, or if you're interested I've got a guide published by the army somewhere here in PDF I could dig up if you're interested.

Nick :cool:

[vicegrip]

I'm guessing that for $600 I did ok. I'll spend more than that just buying basic tooling for it.


http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=25402&stc=1&d=1201673063


http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=25403&stc=1&d=1201673063


Looks like you didn't do too bad at all.
Nick :cool:

You scored Dude !!

By the way for hobby-level useage rates , a good quart of high quallity
differencial lube is nearly identical to way-oil in both viscocity and lubricity.

It can even have graphite in it......but don't get it on your clothes then:eek:
Worse than chocolate & blood-stains.:D

vg

[Spook2]

Looks like you didn't do too bad at all. Is your tool post an actual Aloris, or is it a copy? If it's a copy, don't feel too bad about the other holders - they aren't nearly as expensive as the Aloris branded ones.

The more expensive stuff appears to be there: the three jaw, four jaw, and collet chucks. Did you get any collets with the machine? Enco has 5C collet sets fairly inexpensively. Also, the carriage stops will save you a lot of aggrevation if you're doing a lot of repeated operations.

Do you have much experience running lathes? If not, or if you're interested I've got a guide published by the army somewhere here in PDF I could dig up if you're interested.

Nick :cool:


The holder is knock-off called Phase II. It was still about a $500 unit with holders. I'm quite sure it will be more than sufficient for the hacking I'll be doing. I didn't get any collets with it so I'll have to check into those later. Not a priority at the moment since I wouldn't know what to do with them anyway. :) I've used the carriage stops already just playing around. I'm making some dampeners for a small cnc router I built. At certain speeds the stepper motors start to resonate to the point of stalling and the dampeners really smooth that out big time.


I have plenty of experience on lathes....turning good metal into scrap. I've become quite proficient at it! :) I would be more than happy to have the PDF you mentioned. You can send it to tgreening who is at neo dot rr dot com.

Initial use we be for producing some cups for the special welding guns we use in the shop. Right now they are costing us about $400 & change for each one and all it is is some 1 1/2" copper tube with another copper insert. If you add it all up it's about $20 in raw materials and that's not even based on GOOD material pricing.

[Spook2]

You scored Dude !!

By the way for hobby-level useage rates , a good quart of high quallity
differencial lube is nearly identical to way-oil in both viscocity and lubricity.

It can even have graphite in it......but don't get it on your clothes then:eek:
Worse than chocolate & blood-stains.:D

vg


Gear lube? I've got that by the buckets already. If you say so it works for me! A lot easier to get hold of then having to buy something special and have it shipped. Thanks!

[FarmallMan]

You can buy replacement tool holders, which will be handy when you have the need to use multiple tools. If you go to check this page out for info on them.

As far as collets go, if you're doing anything with round stock, I HIGHLY recommend them. They're as easy to use as the three jaw chuck but have four decimal places of precision. Be warned that 3 jaws are notoriously unprecise, so if you're doing multiple operations on the same part, avoid removing it until you're done with all. Otherwise you may find that it wobbles like crazy when you put it back in.

That actually reminds me of another thing, don't oil your chuck. It will go all over the place, and will attract chips. I'll dig out the PDF when I get home.

Nick :cool:

[Spook2]

You can buy replacement tool holders, which will be handy when you have the need to use multiple tools. If you go to check this page out for info on them.

As far as collets go, if you're doing anything with round stock, I HIGHLY recommend them. They're as easy to use as the three jaw chuck but have four decimal places of precision. Be warned that 3 jaws are notoriously unprecise, so if you're doing multiple operations on the same part, avoid removing it until you're done with all. Otherwise you may find that it wobbles like crazy when you put it back in.

That actually reminds me of another thing, don't oil your chuck. It will go all over the place, and will attract chips. I'll dig out the PDF when I get home.

Nick :cool:


I've got a shopping list all made up! Probably order everything tonight after we get the rug-rats to bed. I understand about the 3-jaw chucks. What I'll be doing won't require rocket science precision. I wonder if I could get a collet that would hold 1 1/2" tube?

[Zrexxer]

I wonder if I could get a collet that would hold 1 1/2" tube?Well, you *can*... but it won't fit your lathe. The spindle bore on the Enco 14x40's is only 1-1/2" to begin with.

Nice score, btw, I'd have scarfed that up in a second, too.

[FarmallMan]

I wonder if I could get a collet that would hold 1 1/2" tube?

Yes, you can expanding collets which you can use as long as the copper is a tube, and not a solid round. I believe Enco sells them also. BTW, if you didn't already know your collet chuck appears to be the 5C type.

Nick :cool:

[vicegrip]

Pick up a 6-jaw chuck 8" if ya can find one .

6" bison with bolt-on jaws is handy but not real beefy.
has Adjust-true feature !!
you can center your work once it's chucked.
and hold virtually anthing without crushing it.

The best assesory peiod for a lathe.

[dsculpin]

Use Rustlick. The Enco item number is 505-2114. You can use this with your bandsaw as well. I use it with my lathe and it works great. You don't have to worry about it rotting, it lasts forever, and it doesn't cause parts to rust. Using it with your saw is kind of a waste of time unless your plan on cutting 8 hours a day every day. I have an Ellis bandsaw and the manufacture doesn't recomend using any coolant with the saw. It is really just a big mess if you do. Using coolant with the lathe is a differnt story. I do a lot of cutting of 304 and 316 steel, as well as a lot of tool steel. You really need coolant to keep the cutting tool cool and to get a good finish. If you are cutting copper though, I am not sure you need coolant for that. You might want to check in the Machinery Handbook for their recomendations. When I cut aluminum, I use WD-40. It works well.