View Full Version : Yikes, first time, Vert up!
01-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Okay everyone. Todays challenge is Vertical up on a T-joint. 6010. 5/32. I have the amps around 135. I have my arc force way down, 2-3. I know all about how its a fast freeze rod, and the whipping action. However, my puddle keeps dripping down over itself, like candle wax. Im trying to keep my arc length as short as possible, is this right? Everytime I change the rod any consistency I have is totally lost! Man, does everyone go though this with vertical? Should I have my electrode tilted up, down, or 90degrees? Yes, I know I have a teacher, but he's pretty busy, and doesnt always explain things well. How fast should I be going? Im using 12 inches of 1/2 inch plate (T-joint) How long should the first pass be taking me? Man, I could really go on and on with questions, I'll just let it go at these for now. Thanks everyone!
01-17-2008, 06:37 PM
Welding vertical is indeed challenging, but once you figure it out, you're well on your way to welding in just about any position. 6010-11 is a fast and hot burning rod, so on thinner steel, can be a little challenging. If you keep the end of the rod pointed up about 30 degrees and just keep a nice steady whip and pause technique. Doing this in a slight "V" pattern sometimes helps too. When welding in the vertical position, many times what you see dripping, is the molten flux, and not necessarily the metal. If you actually have metal dripping, you could either turn down the amps a bit, use a faster travel speed, keep a closer arc, or use a smaller diameter rod. Practice,Practice,Practice.........it will most definitely pay off.
01-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Welcome to the site. There are several things that could be happening, and I am sure there are a lot of people that could help you more than I. My first time at vertical up fillet was a disaster. I would recommend that you go ahead and have your insructor observe your welding, so he could put you on the right path. I am not trying to avoid the question, its just that it could be several things or maybe just a little adjustment in your travel speed, electrode angle, welder setting, etc.
Don't get discouraged.
Bob the Welder
01-17-2008, 08:06 PM
I have found the "arc force" or "dig" control to be one of the most misunderstood and miss used controls on the new inverter welders. Check out this article for a good explanation of what it is and does.
Also, don't think that you are bothering your teacher because you need help with something. That is what he is paid to do! A good teacher will take the time to make sure that you understand the proper way to do something. It really doesn't take that long to demonstrate proper technique to most students and so what if it does on occacsion. Again, that is what he is paid to do!
I taught welding for a couple of summers and took a lot of pride helping someone fine tune their welding skills. It's not always easy if you have a large class especially if they are beginners but again, that's what he is getting paid to do! And I doubt that you are going for free (although possible) but regardless, he is getting paid to teach you to weld! Ask for help and work hard at what you are shown! Good luck and don't give up!
01-17-2008, 09:13 PM
there is one thing i would like to add. i wish i had known this when i started learning. someone posted this before on the forum. but basically, to learn VU, position the T joint in such a way that instead of welding straight up, you are welding at a 45 degree angle going up. whatever happens with the weld puddle and bead at straight up, will just happen slower at 45. you can see and anticipate it easier. after some practice, move it to a steeper angle of 60, and more practice. eventually when you get to 90, you'll be in good shape. if i'm not mistaken, i believe the original poster indicated this was how a naval shipyard trained their weldors. good luck and keep us posted!
01-17-2008, 09:23 PM
Good stuff guys, I'll got have another crack at it right now!
01-18-2008, 01:04 AM
I too am working with the vertical up with stick. Without a teacher though. I'm finding it difficult to get consistant not rod to rod, but from location to location. I'm getting some pretty bad arc blow at times, and I think it's messing with my learning, as it seems to always change the behavior of the puddle. It's hard for me to only change one variable at a time, when something interferes like this. Most of this has been on my 20 foot flatbed trailer. I'm using 1/8" 5P+ 6010 EP at midrange, and soft arc dig, and moderate hot start on 1/4"-3/8" thick shapes such as C channel, tubing and angle steel with A Lincoln Invertec v-350 Pro advanced process. I like this thread. good ideas guys. Brian Lee Sparkeee29
01-18-2008, 06:46 AM
You could try moving the ground cable to a different location, alot of times this will help witht the arc blow problem, but not always.
01-18-2008, 03:47 PM
Yes it helps arc blow alot, but not enough for this Vert-up newbi. thanks :) Usually I get a bare clean metal connection within a foot of wherever I'm welding, each time, I move the clamp nearest the spot I'm working on. seems to help as much as anything. Thanks Brian Lee Sparkeee29
01-19-2008, 01:14 PM
I don't know why they got you using a 5/32,,bigger rod bigger puddle,harder,etc,,you should be at least using a 1/8,,,tee joint,,you need to basicly put a stringer in as root,[no side to side],than next pass.,weave over it,thingy
01-19-2008, 03:43 PM
As i read down the thread, i was thinking the same thing as thingy (?)...5/32 is big, especially for learning...
01-19-2008, 04:03 PM
Good stuff guys, I'll got have another crack at it right now!
Did you take another crack at it? and if you did, how did it turn out?
01-23-2008, 08:12 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys!
So, I'm still at it. I've been improving, but very slowly.
Im doing a stringer 1st, then a box weave, then a regular weave. it seems that it all gets messed up on that last weave, I get alot of undercut, but when I try to keep it tighter, my weld seems too convex and cold-lapped. Also, Ive cranked my arc-force up to about 5, Im not sure if its helping or hurting. Any comments?
How do you best deal with the arc blow at the end/top of the piece? Tack on extra metal? Turn down heat/dig? Other?
01-25-2008, 08:14 PM
I think that arc force setting is messing with your mind,,back in the day,,wasn't any such thing,,set it in the middlle[or whatever],,and leave it alone,,,or turn it off,[if it turns off],,,you just need an amp control,,up/down,,and get you some 3/32 to learn on,,thingy