MIG or Stick Welder

[galaxieguy]

I have both a MIG and Stick welder (brother gave it to me free) and wondering when one should be used over the other? You can tell I'm not an experienced welder. I've used my MIG (HH 140) numerous times for various small projects, welding both sheet and plate using both solid wire w/gas and flux-cored wire. I always thought of stick welding for heavy type of welding but my MIG looks to be able to handle the same gauge thickness as my stick welder (Hobart Stickmate LX DC)...

Any thoughts?

[boykjo]

Usually it is ones preference. Conditions also are a factor. Out in the elements stick is usually the choice unless using mig flux core. Indoors mig. less smoke

[weldgault]

Usually it is ones preference. Conditions also are a factor. Out in the elements stick is usually the choice unless using mig flux core. Indoors mig. less smoke
I think you hit the nail on the head. John

[SteveA]

I am a newbie here. My welding experience is limited and goes back to about 30 years ago. When I was a kid I worked in a cutoff shop. We had large automatic band saws that would be used to cut just about any type of metal that would fit into the vice.
When cutting large runs of bar or flat stock, I would stick weld the but ends together so they would continuously feed through the saw. That is the extent of my experience.
Anyway, I wish to begin welding some odds and ends as needed around the house. We have a small "gentleman's" horse farm which I maintain with a Kubota compact tractor.
My first job will be to weld some angle onto the tractor bucket to stiffen up the top edge so I then can weld on some chain hooks. My next project is to fabricate a snow plow frame for the tractor. Not sure whether or not I wish to build/convert a subframe or just simply weld some plow mounts inside the tractor bucket.
Anyway, this is where I plan on resuming my welding career :) Would a 225 amp stick welder be my best bet for general purpose welding? I imagine something on my Bush Hog or other implements will go and need repair. Most of my work would probably be done in the garage. Thanks and a very informative site here.

[Sully2]

... We have a small "gentleman's" horse farm which I maintain with a Kubota compact tractor.
My first job will be to weld some angle onto the tractor bucket to stiffen up the top edge so I then can weld on some chain hooks. My next project is to fabricate a snow plow frame for the tractor. Not sure whether or not I wish to build/convert a subframe or just simply weld some plow mounts inside the tractor bucket.
Anyway, this is where I plan on resuming my welding career :) Would a 225 amp stick welder be my best bet for general purpose welding? I imagine something on my Bush Hog or other implements will go and need repair. Most of my work would probably be done in the garage. Thanks and a very informative site here.

Wow! If this dont sound familiar....(Kubota B3030 here) I never learned to weld..ever...and had to wait 2 full weeks for a friend to get free to weld 2 bucket hooks on for me ....thats when I decided to at least learn the basics.
Personally..I think the AC/DC Stickmate would be almost perfect for your usage.

[SteveA]

We bought a new L3130 in Sept. 06. The tractor purchase was about 20 years overdue. Got tired of beg-borrowing-stealing to get our field mowed and horse crap moved. Finally took the plunge and purchased a Bush Hog and a post hole digger for starters with the tractor. The tractor runs great. Has 175 hours on it already.
Anyway, back to the subject. Was kicking this issue around at work just an hour ago. One of the guys I work with swears by his mig welder. Says he hasn't used a stick welder in years. He indicates his is a "Lindy" and can weld up to 1/2 inch material on the high side and sheet goods on the low. Not sure which way to turn here but I do know the migs are substantially more expensive and one would need the gas to go along with it. Thanks for the input.

[Sully2]

We bought a new L3130 in Sept. 06. The tractor purchase was about 20 years overdue. Got tired of beg-borrowing-stealing to get our field mowed and horse crap moved. Finally took the plunge and purchased a Bush Hog and a post hole digger for starters with the tractor. The tractor runs great. Has 175 hours on it already.
Anyway, back to the subject. Was kicking this issue around at work just an hour ago. One of the guys I work with swears by his mig welder. Says he hasn't used a stick welder in years. He indicates his is a "Lindy" and can weld up to 1/2 inch material on the high side and sheet goods on the low. Not sure which way to turn here but I do know the migs are substantially more expensive and one would need the gas to go along with it. Thanks for the input.


"Wire fed" welders are somewhat more $$..but I went that way myself because of "ease of use". I havent used solid wire and gas ( MIG) here at home..only used flux core wire ( having to work outside as I do). My HH210 is rated for up to and including 3/8" thick material so it more than covers anything I'll ever do here.

If your buddy's machine can do 1/2" thk material "single pass"..its not a small machine at all. ( and not cheap either)

[SteveA]

The HH210 looks like it would more than fit the bill for my needs. I probably won't use it a whole lot, but when I need one, I want to have one around. I'm one of those tool acquisition type of guys. In the long run, I'm probably ahead of the game. I do just about everything myself around here. Don't remember when the last time one of my cars were in the shop.

[Scott Young]

i went to mig kicking and screaming. for some reason it was difficult for me to get my mind around. i run mig for 10 hours a day every day. i have learned to respect that little wire and i am amazed at what i can do with it. for instance. do day a guy brought coupling in that needed to be welded. the outside pipe was 4 inch sch 40 and the inner was 2.5 sch 40. the inner pipe needed to centered and the sealed off with a weld. i can't remember the exact gap all the way around, but it was over 1/2 inch. i used the my mig unit and welded it up.I started on the outside and built up a large tack. then i went to the inner and built up a large tack and bridged the two pieces together. i then just carried a large c weave tying the two pieces together. it was nonstop the whole way. you would have spent triple to quadruple the time with a stick unit.

i have a stick unit at home. if i had both, i would use the stick for critical stuff cause i feel you get a better weld with 7018. i would use mig for just about everything else. i can't believe i said that. let me restate that. i would use my stick for everything cause i am an old throw back who likes doing things the hard way. seriously, i would use the mig if the situation allowed for it, and then the stick when conditions weren't right or if the weld warranted a critical weld.

[SteveA]

I'm very new at the dialogue here so please bear with me. You mentioned that you would use a stick welder for critical joints. What do you consider critical? Are MIG welds only for light duty? For example, I indicated in an earlier post that I wish to weld some angle across the top of my tractor bucket loader in order to beef it up for some chain hooks. I do envision some day of probably having to use these hooks with some chain rigging to lift some heavy loads off of my pickup truck. Obviously, one of the hooks letting go with a load dangling over my truck bed would be a disaster.
Would you MIG or stick weld in this situation? Thanks for your input. I am learning alot here.

[Sully2]

I'm very new at the dialogue here so please bear with me. You mentioned that you would use a stick welder for critical joints. What do you consider critical? Are MIG welds only for light duty? For example, I indicated in an earlier post that I wish to weld some angle across the top of my tractor bucket loader in order to beef it up for some chain hooks. I do envision some day of probably having to use these hooks with some chain rigging to lift some heavy loads off of my pickup truck. Obviously, one of the hooks letting go with a load dangling over my truck bed would be a disaster.
Would you MIG or stick weld in this situation? Thanks for your input. I am learning alot here.

Had to do the same thing on my B3030. I clamped a cresant wrench on the top lip of the bucket and could flex it back and forth. Said NO WAY was I going to have hooks weled onto that thin of material. In my case a piece of 2 1/2 x 3 inch angle fit perfectly. We stick welded it to the top bucket lip and then welded the hooks onto the angle iron. In that case we used by buddys stick welder ( I didnt own any welder at that time) but if it were today..Id have no fear of using my HH210 and fluxcore wire to do the same identical welds.

[SteveA]

Thanks Sully. You answered my question. When I do purchase a welder that will probably be the first project I encounter. When the time comes, I will be chiming in here probably asking about the proper heat settings for this job. I do not wish to burn through that upper bucket lip.

[Broccoli1]

It doesn't matter which process you use- you use the one that is applicable.

Done correctly, each will provide the necessary "Critical" strength:)

[Sully2]

Thanks Sully. You answered my question. When I do purchase a welder that will probably be the first project I encounter. When the time comes, I will be chiming in here probably asking about the proper heat settings for this job. I do not wish to burn through that upper bucket lip.

And thats EASY to do on this buckets...cause the steel isnt very thick at all. When I showed the guy that owns the local steel place my sketch of what I intended on doing..(interrupted weld..1"-1 1/2" long..every 4-5 inches all the way across...upper and lower sides of the angle iron...welded 100% on the very ends) and intended on welding the hooks themselves to the ANGLE iron..NOT the thin bucket lip...I asked him "whats it going to take to bend all of this and ruin it". He laughed and told me I didnt have enough tractor to bed that piece of iron...

Its worked fine for lifting cut down trees and hauling them off..except one..:D...it was still attached to its stump...:eek:. Tree stayed down...rear end of the tractor came UP!!!!

[Sully2]

...
i have a stick unit at home. if i had both, i would use the stick for critical stuff cause i feel you get a better weld with 7018. i would use mig for just about everything else. i can't believe i said that. let me restate that. i would use my stick for everything cause i am an old throw back who likes doing things the hard way. seriously, i would use the mig if the situation allowed for it, and then the stick when conditions weren't right or if the weld warranted a critical weld.

Had I even been able to use a stick welder AT ALL when I started..Id probably have bought the Stickmate AC/DC unit right off the get-go....and a supply of various size 7018 rods. DC and 7018 rods make a nice combo IMHO....and regardless of what anyone else had or were using..I wouldnt be hanging my head like some red headed orphan!

[Dascro]

For what its worth, I welded hooks on my bucket (a Kubota too!) using my MM180. I did reinforce the bucket lip with 3" angle (3/16" thick). The MIG welds hold fine. I have lifted things that have honestly pushed the limits of the loader capacity using the hooks and the welds hold fine. And with the reinforcement, the bucket itself is very solid.

With proper preparation and taking your time, I have found there is not much I do around the farm that the MM180 won't weld.

Dave

[Scott Young]

please understand my intentions are not to start anything between processes and i know that every process if done correctly technically should be as strong as another, also i understand that it mostly depends upon operator skill as to which weld is better. that said i will tell you of my experiences and the practice of the shop where i work. i work at a manufacturer and we are currently manufacturing 4 high speed deep hole land rigs. i have been building the floor panels, stair cases, and other noncritical structures. we utilize every process at the shop and have the big three on these rigs. they are stick, dual shield, and mig. on areas such as stringers and support, v-doors, mudpumps, and other areas that are high stress, stick and dualshield are used. on areas such as floor panels and noncritical framing mig is used.

the floor panels i was working on yesterday are roughly 8 feet by 3 feet and we have 8 of them. the frames are 8 inch c channel with 1/4 inch webs and the diamond plate is 3/8 thick. these sit on top of the rig and make up the working platforms. the design is all compression so these panels just need to held together and no weld is required work so to speak. the engineers permit mig to be used as every joint needs to be sealed to avoid corrosion and premature failure. this is where mig shines. for the other areas such as the v-door where the weld will be placed in a working position or will take severe abuse it is 7018 or better and dual shield. the plate is 3/4 to 1 inch and the cchannel is roughly 14 inches with 3 to 4 inch schedule 80 rails. these welds are built up and back gouged. there are several passes on each main weld. these welds are not for operator preference, the engineers determine the size, and the process.

for our shop practice, pad eyes (one inch thick weldments that are attached for the purpose of lifting with an overhead crane) are welded with stick or dual shield. these cranes will lift and move 30,000 lb mud pumps. the smaller panels such as what i am working on is may be welded with a mig because the forces at play are that great. on the heavy stuff and stuff that will place the pad eye in a bind such as when you have to flip a unit the weld is always a 7018 or dual shield weld. the weld will have to withstand every force one can apply and still hold the unit from falling. i am still amazed at the ability of these pad eyes and welds when you see a crane maxed or have two cranes working tandem because the unit is so large.

my personal experience shows that dual shield and stick have deeper penetration and more abuse resistance. i will build a jig using one inch stitches only to later that day cut some of the stitches and break the rest of the jig apart. every time the stick and dual shield require more effort to break apart and will bend more before it breaks. on pad eyes we cut one side and knock the pad off breaking the other side. if it is a pad that is welded with mig like on a small unit, the weld snaps and isn't as durable. also when i tack a unit together if it needs to be adjusted the mig tack will almost always break. the stick and dual shield of the same size will flex and hold. i have asked our code welders and pipe welders which process are stronger and more durable and hands down they all reply the same...stick and dual shield.

there is a place for mig. there are days were i will lay a couple hundred inches of weld. i would hate to try and accomplish that with a stick. especially if it doesn't need the strength of a stick. also for most all work a mig will do well at. the welds that i consider critical are welds that will see several forces at the same time. areas that are critical are trailer tongues, axles and spring hangers, tractor implements, etc. they have tension, sheer, and compression, many times at the same time...they are critcal.

i didn't like mig for a long time because of what i have seen over the years on forums. it wasn't until i went to work for someone that required that i learn mig that i learn its benefits and saw first hand the advantages and disadvantages of it. though i have been at mig welding a short time i can safely say that i have burned more wire than any homeowner. i know there are professionals here that can school me and defer to their wisdom, i am only speaking about what i have seen and experienced.