Wow there's nasty stuff in welding fumes! Any Metalurgists lurking?

[Sammy da bull]

Our safety guy at work decided to run an experiment. He picked a few steel welders doing a lot of continuous welding, and he was curious about my job because I am a one man show welding all the Aluminum. We had to wear a little vacuum pump that collected a sample on a small white filter that was to be analyzed in a lab.

We got the results back today, and was I surprised. I kinda figured that mig welding AL was probably worse for you health wise than welding steel (which is bad enough) but my numbers were 10 to 12 times that of the steel welders for some really nasty stuff including Beryllium, Cadmium, Cobalt, Chromium, and Manganese.

Also detected were Antimony, Lead, Molybdenum, Nickel, Vanadium, Iron oxide, Zinc oxide, and Copper. :eek::eek:

My question: does anyone know of any free online sites where I can just show up and get the MSDS for this stuff? I know Chromium is a carcinogen. And I know Cadmium is in certain types of batteries (kinda scary) but what the heck is it exactly? Same thing with Cobalt. I've heard of it, but what is it exactly? Or do I even want to know? :D

Just goes to show, if you want a clean healthy job, welding ain't the business to pursue......

Info? Feedback? Opinions?

[Broccoli1]

Don't know but came across this on SFT

http://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/weldhlth.html

[Some Creep]

There was a link through OHSA I used to use, but the link is dead now. I'm searching for an update, but in the meantime you might find it doing the same thing. I'll post what I find and if I beat you to it, I WIN!! :D

My old link started here: www.osha.gov

Good luck!

[Phewzer]

My question: does anyone know of any free online sites where I can just show up and get the MSDS for this stuff? Info? Feedback? Opinions?

In most states, the company you work for is required to give you this info upon request.:confused:

You will learn the obvious,
welding for a living is Extreeeemly Hazardous, Dangerous and sometimes Deadly.:eek:
U S E Y O U R H E A D.

Get paid W E L L for it.:D

[Bob the Welder]

MSDS info is required by law to be made available at your request by the company that you work for.

[bobad]

Just goes to show, if you want a clean healthy job, welding ain't the business to pursue......

Info? Feedback? Opinions?


Not to worry about that. Breathing welding fumes is pretty safe short term. It usually takes at least a week or 2 before any permanent damage is done. :D

[Garfield]

Have you tried the web page of the manufacture of the welding wire?
Also look the next time you change reels, Lincoln and some other brands put a MSDS with each roll.

[down19992000]

the place i work at does a test identical to that once per year and they always come back with "it is within tolerances". now i know they wouldnt be lieing to me would they? we have no ventilation whatsoever there. someone turned them in to osha but during the inspection the plant nurse stood right beside me the whole time and answered almost all the questions the guy asked me. his report 2 weeks later said we had excellent safety practices.

[Sammy da bull]

Thanks for the Great Links Brocc and Creep.


MSDS info is required by law to be made available at your request by the company that you work for.

Yes the company is required to have on hand the msds for all the stuff we order, and keep around, but not for the trace stuff. They would probably get them for me if I asked, but I was just sittin here at my computer curious about what some of the stuff was on the lab report....


Have you tried the web page of the manufacture of the welding wire?
Also look the next time you change reels, Lincoln and some other brands put a MSDS with each roll

I use 'ALCOTEC' and it does have a brief warning on the side of each box, and I've read the MSDS for both steel and aluminum welding wire, and most of the chemicals on this report are not mentioned.


the place i work at does a test identical to that once per year and they always come back with "it is within tolerances". now i know they wouldnt be lieing to me would they? we have no ventilation whatsoever there. someone turned them in to osha but during the inspection the plant nurse stood right beside me the whole time and answered almost all the questions the guy asked me. his report 2 weeks later said we had excellent safety practices.

Somebody turned us in too... and it sounds like you got about as much accomplished by the system as we did :mad: (meaning zero) Our Ventilation is minimal, and it looks like tommy chongs van out in the shop most of the time; But the lab results say we are "in no health danger based on accepted tolerances" :confused: I'm pretty much disgusted and disillusioned with how corrupt a corporation can be to avoid spending a few bucks on safety stuff.

[Sparkeee24]

Howdy Howdy!

Take care of yourself, no one else will. how many of you are there out there/ one, I think ;) We want to keep you around anyway. I know it would be an investment, but what about a clean breathing helmet? Sometimes a company might not pay for something that may save your life in the long term. It'd be cheeper out of pocket then suffering later I would think. I bet even the better paper masks help alot. I know they suck to wear, and sometimes seem impossible to put up with. I work in attics alot, and MAN the stuff that sticks to those sweat drenched masks, makes me cringe! But, then you think about that cr@p in your lungs, and ya see your kids and sleep at night.

A note about alluminum. I am not so sure in the welding field, but i DO KNOW that in manufacturing of alluminum, and when alluminum is molten, with electric methods, and current flowing throw it when liquid, it gives off more "free radical molecules" then most any other metal manufacturing process. free radicals, are unstable, unknown molecules. They are very reactive, and cause every ailment pretty much. Instead of getting one major type of pollution, all the time, it's more like, constantly breathing in different poison with every breath :) yummy!

the only good thing, is that usually these are very reactive molecules, and break down or stabilize in a very short time. So, unless your the one welding in the region of liquid alluminum, you should be OK. Sorry that you are... But all of these are larger particles I believe. Some very complex. I would be curious if the lab ran the same test, using a paper mask for a filter, and then a better paper mask, and then a cartridge that goes on the rubber masks for filters what the numbers would show.

Maybee make sure that your getting 12 times the paythen the steel weldors, since your breathing in 12 times the cr@p ;) Or not. Best of wishes none the less. Take care of yourself. Brian Lee Sparkeee29

[usmcpop]

Here's a doc with a little info: http://files.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-04.PDF
Note that it references other links and documents which may have a lot more info.

http://www.afscme.org/issues/1297.cfm

http://www.thefabricator.com/Safety/Safety_Article.cfm?ID=851

http://www.thefabricator.com/Safety/Safety_Article.cfm?ID=1168

http://www.uwsp.edu/ehs/Training%20Files/welding%20fumes%209-05.pdf

http://www.cpwr.com/hazpdfs/kfwelding.PDF

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/weldingfumes/recognition.html

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/welding/fumes.html

[Rocky D]

I really hate to see this topic get blown way out of perspective, here...Unless you have some sort of allergy, or immune deficiency, the liklyhood of someone croaking by breathing welding fumes is minimal...as exemplified by the guys here who have been welding all their lives like me and a few others. Too much of ANYTHING can kill.

[storts]

Our safety guy at work decided to run an experiment. He picked a few steel welders doing a lot of continuous welding, and he was curious about my job because I am a one man show welding all the Aluminum. We had to wear a little vacuum pump that collected a sample on a small white filter that was to be analyzed in a lab.

We got the results back today, and was I surprised. I kinda figured that mig welding AL was probably worse for you health wise than welding steel (which is bad enough) but my numbers were 10 to 12 times that of the steel welders for some really nasty stuff including Beryllium, Cadmium, Cobalt, Chromium, and Manganese.

Also detected were Antimony, Lead, Molybdenum, Nickel, Vanadium, Iron oxide, Zinc oxide, and Copper. :eek::eek:

My question: does anyone know of any free online sites where I can just show up and get the MSDS for this stuff? I know Chromium is a carcinogen. And I know Cadmium is in certain types of batteries (kinda scary) but what the heck is it exactly? Same thing with Cobalt. I've heard of it, but what is it exactly? Or do I even want to know? :D

Just goes to show, if you want a clean healthy job, welding ain't the business to pursue......

Info? Feedback? Opinions?

Sammy,Ive been burning lead for 30 years,so i know about the lead and antimony. And get tested once,used to be twice a year,But they could never find anything, Do you have any symptoms,theres a couple with lead,But a coule of glasses of milk and a weekend off,and the symptoms,which are hardly any,are gone,Just wondering if your having any? I also do Koraseal linded tanks for the chrome plating depts.and clean on that also, Only thing the doc says is to quit smoking!Jack

[Sammy da bull]

I really hate to see this topic get blown way out of perspective, here...Unless you have some sort of allergy, or immune deficiency, the liklyhood of someone croaking by breathing welding fumes is minimal...as exemplified by the guys here who have been welding all their lives like me and a few others. Too much of ANYTHING can kill.

I definitely agree. Just like I've heard you say before Rocky, pretty soon letting your kids catch lighting bugs in a jar will be hazardous to your health.:rolleyes:

i just posted this thread as a public safety announcement to those who didn't know before. As I said, somebody at my plant called OSHA with a complaint about the fumes from the exhaust from our gas heated washer tanks choking some of the steel welders working right next to it. It was caused by "negative pressure" from the new exhaust system installed to expel the ridiculous amount of welding smoke from the fab end of the building. The company's response to the quite stern letter from OSHA was to shut off 5 out of 6 of our large exhaust fans to relieve the internal to external pressure so that the pipe from the washer could vent without installing the legally mandated "power vent". (don't know what the laws are in other states but a pipe exhausting natural gas fumes for more than 3 feet are required to be power vented; even after the report to OSHA our venting system remains Illegal, just circumvented and leaving the whole shop choking on smoke from a dozen guys burning wire. Welders, press operators, paintline, and assembly) All that stuff brought on the safety guy running the lab test, I just figured I'd share the results with a bunch of welders around the country.

Believe me I'm not a whiner, as i said before, if you want a clean healthy job.... tie yourself to a desk. Leave welding to the rest of us who believe we all gotta die of something. :cool:


Sammy,Ive been burning lead for 30 years,so i know about the lead and antimony. And get tested once,used to be twice a year,But they could never find anything, Do you have any symptoms,theres a couple with lead,But a coule of glasses of milk and a weekend off,and the symptoms,which are hardly any,are gone,Just wondering if your having any? I also do Koraseal linded tanks for the chrome plating depts.and clean on that also, Only thing the doc says is to quit smoking!Jack

No Storts, no symptoms except the occasional cough with a very minty and distinctive Aluminum flavor. :D I am not that worried for myself, believe it or not I really don't care about health hazards. If I did I wouldn't be a weldor right?! ;) But I believe in the free flow of information and this discussion does nothing but help all my fellow weldors here lurking around this message board!

[Pangea]

Does your company test for ozone levels? I was making 18 minute GMAW welds in Delta II rockets that put out some off the chart numbers for ozone. Me and the other certified GMAW welder were being exposed to levels of ozone that were crazy high! We would get bronchial infections every time we would weld these rockets even with a supplied air shield. The problem was that we were taking the PPE off before we exited the vessel because it was almost impossible to climb out with that rig on.

Ozone= bad news.:eek:

[FABMAN]

I really hate to see this topic get blown way out of perspective, here...Unless you have some sort of allergy, or immune deficiency, the liklyhood of someone croaking by breathing welding fumes is minimal...as exemplified by the guys here who have been welding all their lives like me and a few others. Too much of ANYTHING can kill.

I agree Rocky, as with anything you can hurt yourself. You have to use common sense and proper ventelation. Keep your head out of the fumes as much as possible and if it is in a confined space, use the proper resperation equipment.

[OldSparks]

You go to work and protect yourself as best you can. Hard call to say that the dangers are overrated. Hope this doesn't turn out like asbestoes.

http://www.propertyandcasualtyinsurancenews.com/cms/nupc/Weekly%20Issues/issues/2007/47/News/P47WELDERS

[Sammy da bull]

Very interesting article sparx...

[Thomas Harris]

All kinds of bad fumes are produced when something is burned/heated to extreme. Question is whether it is concentrated enough for immediate danger, or whether it is a cummulative poison which can cause damage in minute concentraions but frequent exposure. How many welders out there smoke? Might wanna quit that first.