Oxy-chemolene or Oxy-acetylene

[boykjo]

About 3 yrs ago I went to my lws store to buy a $25 rose bud for my harriss torch and walked out spending about $400 bucks on a new torch, gas mixer, and tip with a cylinder of chemolene. Let me tell you, when I got home I found out why there was an extesion between the torch and the tip. HOT, HOT, HOT heres the btu rating for my tip
Max Heat Output Btu/Hr:
Propane: 218,000 - 590,000

Let me say I have no problem heating anymore. I Heated a 5 ft piece of 2 inch solid square carbon steel in about three min. to cherry red about 6 inches long. The heat is so intensive out of the tip you need to wear your leathers and face protection. I have recently started cuting with chemolene. When my acetylene runs out I switch over to it.

I am debating on returning my acetylene tank for another chem tank but its like a old shirt I dont want to get rid of..........

what do you prefer and Why?:confused:

[Rocky D]

My experience with chemolene was when a salesman came to our plant and did a demo...I was impressed with it...it cut alot cleaner than acetylene and faster, too. I don't recall why we didn't get it, but I think it was too expensive or we had to change out our torches or something like that.

[Pumpkinhead]

Chem-O-Lene

propane: 87.5-98%
xylene: 0.0125-0.0250%
ethane: 0.5%
propylene: 0-5%
butanes: 0-2.5%
pentane: 0-2.5%


nothing special, just buy propane and save bux.
compare with odorized propane:

propane: 87.5-100%
ethane: 0-5%
propylene: 0-10%
butanes: 0-2.5%
ethyl mercaptan: 16-25ppm (odorant, it stinks)

[boykjo]

So propane from my local gas distributor will be the same as chemolene. A 20lb tank refill runs me about $11

[rawen2]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question. If propane/oxygen burns as hot or hotter than acetylene/oxygen why isn't it used more?
I understand it takes a different torch but propane is easier to obtain and doesn't require the special handling that acetylene does. (Don't need to worry about keeping the bottle upright or discharging the bottle too quickly)
I don't think propane has the explosion danger that acetylene has if you accidently turn the regulator pressure too high either.
Would it be a good idea for an occasional user to go with propane instead of acetylene?
Thanks,
Ralph Wenzl

[usmcpop]

You can't beat acetylene for welding, or in situations where the very hottest, concentrated flame is required. As I understand it, for cutting, propane is a little slower getting started on the initial cut. If I recall correctly, one comparison study I saw demonstrated that propane was more economical on the larger cutting tasks, but it was marginal. For the casual user, I think the availability and safety of propane for cutting recommend it.

[boykjo]

I guess this is a fairly new fuel type and is not widely used. With my experience with it for cutting is, it takes a long heat up time before cutting but yes it cuts alot faster and cleaner. For heating it awsome. I guess acetylene cannot go over 15 psi but with this fuel u can go as high as your regulators can output. When I crank this torch up it sounds like a jet engine. I dont know how propane is. I never used it or seen it used. Heres some input I got from another forum

Propylene in my humble opinion is the best choice for oxy/fuel cutting operations and here is why.
1) Propylene has much better heat transfer properties than does acetylene
2) Propylene is much safer. Because of acetylene’s unstable nature it is unlawful to operate acetylene at pressure’s higher than 15 PSI. This can cause what is known as a disociative gas explosion. Propylene can be used at full cylinder pressure if need. When you use a rosebud, multiflame, heating head with acetylene you need to properly size the volume of acetylene to the heating head. You can only withdraw 1/7th of an acetylene cylinders volume at any given time. Failure to do so puts you at risk of over drawing the cylinder. When that happens you can starve the torch for fuel. Anyone that has ever operated a heating head and the torch starts whistling…that is the sound of the flame burning back into the heating head/torch searching for more fuel. Another thing that can happen when you over draw the cylinder is you can pull acetone (one of the stabilizing agents in an acetylene cylinder) out of the cylinder. It will ruin your torch, regulator, hose and the cylinder valve….not mention the safety hazard.
3) Propylene cuts approximately 30% faster than acetylene. There are basically 2 flames in an oxy/fuel flame. The primary flame is the long flame that does the preheating, the secondary flame is actually what kindles the steel for cutting. While acetylene has a hotter primary flame, propylene has a much much hotter secondary flame (almost double) something like 963 degrees vs. 1900degrees. So propylene may take a second or 2 longer to preheat it cuts much faster because of it’s extremely hot secondary flame. Another neet thing is you can literally be 1-1/2” off the material and get a good clean nearly dross free cut.
4) Cost! The bottom line is what everyone wants to hear about. I always use a medium sized acetylene cylinder in my example. And this is based on prices in my area. 130 Cu. Ft. acetylene cylinder list price runs about $38.00. A 25 Lb. Propylene container runs about $40.00. Both cylinders are about the same physical size. The propylene container will last 2 to 2-1/2 times longer than acetylene.

Now some fun facts about our dear friend acetylene. The acetylene industry is in real dire straits. The cost to produce acetylene continues to soar in an upward way. There are 3 things that is driving the cost up.
1) Calcium Carbide is a product that is used to make acetylene. The cost of this product is ever rising because of the hazardous nature of this product.
2) When you make acetylene the Calcium Carbide is reduced to a sludge type material that must be disposed of in accordance to Hazardous Waste rules and regulations….very very costly. And the cost keeps escalating.
3) As many as 15 years ago an acetylene cylinder never had to be held to any testing or qualification process. Now cylinders have to go thru a qualification process based on the age of the cylinder, etc. Basically what they do is take he valve off the cylinder and measure the amount of porous filler (the other stabilizing agent in an acetylene cylinder) in the cylinder. They have a go/no-go gauge that they insert in the cylinder’s valve seat and measure the filler. If it hits above or below the tolerance of the gauge the cylinder has to be scrapped. No adding or removing filler…it’s outta here. Now these cylinders can’t just be chucked in a dumpster . They have to be disposed of in accordance to hazardous waste rules and regs. Let me tell you it’s not cheap. Some of the real old cylinders had asbestos for a porous filler.

[Aerometalworker]

Too bad only acet. works for welding steel correctly. and hydrogen for aluminum.

The other gasses are finefor cutting and heating though, and I use them for that and save the good fuel gas for welding.

-Aaron

[professur]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question. If propane/oxygen burns as hot or hotter than acetylene/oxygen why isn't it used more?
I understand it takes a different torch but propane is easier to obtain and doesn't require the special handling that acetylene does. (Don't need to worry about keeping the bottle upright or discharging the bottle too quickly)
I don't think propane has the explosion danger that acetylene has if you accidently turn the regulator pressure too high either.
Would it be a good idea for an occasional user to go with propane instead of acetylene?
Thanks,
Ralph Wenzl

I seem to recall propane needs considerably more oxygen than acetylene does. Enough to cancel any cost savings from the propane.

[Pumpkinhead]

boykjo, sounds like propylene progaganda to me.
acetylene is also manufactured by thermal cracking of hydrocarbons, or by partial combustion of methane, usually from agricultural waste or biomass or cow farts. because acetylene is currently used primarily in welding and cutting operations, the perception has grown that acetylene is a relatively rare gas. in fact the supply and production of acetylene is abundant, this isn't the '40's when you used a acetylene producer in your shop, and had to stock CaC2 (carbide).

[usmcpop]

I seem to recall propane needs considerably more oxygen than acetylene does. Enough to cancel any cost savings from the propane.

Not necessarily true if we are speaking of cutting, as opposed to heating/brazing/welding. While it is true that other fuel gasses require more external oxygen to support the flame, the bulk of the oxygen is consumed when you pull that lever. I'm not sure if I can find it now, but I did happen across a research paper that showed the economic cutoff point. IIRC, the propane was better on the thicker stuff.

This isn't the study, but does discuss some factors about other fuels and variables: http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/0/5d23a3ff14044de585256ab3001486bb/$FILE/P-8177.pdf

[Rocky D]

...usually from agricultural waste or biomass or cow farts....

No wonder it stinks!

[TexHand]

... usually from agricultural waste or biomass or cow farts.

So, if we all become vegitarians to decrease cow farts and save the planet from Global Warming, will the cost of acetelyne skyrocket? Is that something else we could thanks Al Gore for?

[Pumpkinhead]

So, if we all become vegitarians to decrease cow farts and save the planet from Global Warming, will the cost of acetelyne skyrocket? Is that something else we could thanks Al Gore for?

nope, you'll just supplant the gas issue, cow=vegan=flatus to human=vegatarian=flatus=dutch oven='sleeping in dog house'=dog gas (the worst kind)

[usmcpop]

As a long-time vegetarian, I can attest to the fact that indoor Methane levels can be safely regulated by periodic rest sessions in a garage with average ventilation.

[Zrexxer]

Hmm, I'll debate some of your "facts." Some of them may be conditionally true, but there's more disinformation there than fact.

Now some fun "facts" about our dear friend acetylene. The acetylene industry is in real dire straits.
That's funny, since the primary use of acetylene is far and away as an intermediary in plastic production, not welding. Plastics manufacture isn't going away because someone named propane "chemolene."

2) When you make acetylene the Calcium Carbide is reduced to a sludge type material that must be disposed of in accordance to Hazardous Waste rules and regulations….very very costly. And the cost keeps escalating.The byproduct sludge from the production of C2H2 with calcium carbide (CaC2 + 2H2O → Ca(OH)2 + C2H2) is Calcium Hydroxide, or slaked Lime, and is not a listed Hazardous Waste under federal RCRA laws. Further, its only characteristically hazardous under 40 CFR 261 as a corrosive (D002) waste if the pH is greater than 12.5. In those cases, you can be sure gas producers are neutralizing onsite rather than paying for offsite disposal of corrosive sludge.

The exception of course, is that The People's Republik of Kalifornia lists acetylene production sludge as a listed hazardous waste, right there next to mother's milk and pablum.


They have to be disposed of in accordance to hazardous waste rules and regs.Again, there's nothing that defines all acetylene cylinders as a hazardous waste. Most use a diatomaceous earth, silica lime, or cementitious filler. Of course, if you disposed of a cylinder full of acetone it might meet the characteristic of flammability, but most testing facilities reclaim the acetone. Companies that dispose of asbestos containing cylinders encapsulate the asbestos fibers into a non-friable form which allows the cylinders to go to a Subtitle D landfill... your friendly local Municipal Waste Landfill. So while it's not exactly "chucking it in a dumspter" as you say, it's not a hazardous waste.

[Some Creep]

If wet lime is a hazardous 'waste', good luck having to 'dispose' of it. Post an add for it as "available" in any product re-cycler newsletter and industries will beat your door down to get it from you (most will buy it from you). It's used in pH adjustment around the world. It's transported as 'hazardous'..... but you aren't disposing of it, you're shipping it to someone else to use. BIG difference.....:)