Oxy,Propane equipment setup questions

[firestorm13666]

I am looking for advice on what else i need to get so i can use propane. Right now i have the Lincoln Cutwelder setup made by Harris with single stage regs,model 16 handle,and 71-3 cutting head. The handle has check vales already on it. I know i need a T grade hose to use propane. What else will i need to use propane with my setup?Thanks

[84ZMike]

You will need LP tips....you should also look at getting a set of flashback arresters... the built in check valves are nice,but wont help with a flashback....I personaly run my flashbacks on the regs in case of sparks getting to the hose....depending on the fuel reg you may need to get an addapter to fit an LP tank.... your LWS should have one if you need it.
Mike

[firestorm13666]

The fuel reg has a CGA-510 addapter on it already.I think it is the right one as it screws into the valve.

[84ZMike]

PART TIP PLATE OXYGEN Fuel Gas ORIFICE
NUMBER SIZE THICKNESS PSIG PSIG DRILL SIZE
1502170 00 3/16-3/8 15-30 5-15 #64
1502171 0 3/8-5/8 20-35 5-15 #60
1502172 1AC 5/8-1 30-50 5-15 #56
1502173 2AC 1-2 40-65 5-15 #53
1502174 3AC 2-4 40-65 5-15 #52
1502175 4AC 4-7 50-80 5-15 #42
1502176 5AC 7-10 65-80 5-15 #35
1502177 6AC 10-12 70-95 5-15 #31

Here is the above in a word doc.

[Hotfoot]

I use a separate acetylene regulator I had for propane (screws right in the propane tank), and its own hose. The tip was about $15.00 at my local welding supply. Works for me! :)

[84ZMike]

The fuel reg has a CGA-510 addapter on it already.I think it is the right one as it screws into the valve.

I believe you are right....as far as tips look on ebay....I have found 5 new LP tips for my Victor for $30 shipped...
Mike

[Pumpkinhead]

i'm sure you know propane doesn't start like acetylene, you'll need to snap back the flame into the tip.

[firestorm13666]

Now that i have every thing ready to go i need some advice.I have never used cutting torchs before so i am kind of in the dark on this one.I hooked everything up and lit the flame but could not get it to burn right.Also what does perheating mean in terms of the flame,also what did pumpkinhead mean that i will need to snap the flame back into the tip?Thanks

[84ZMike]

What size tip do you have on it?...... you need to check and make sure you don't have any leaks with soapy water.....then set your reg. according to tip size..... with a #2 on my Victor set running LP I like 5 lp and 35 oxy....these numbers are with it in use....turn the lower oxy valve full on.....the gas off and the upper oxy valve off....open the fuel valve slowly, light it, adj it down if the flame is trying to "run off the end"....then open the upper oxy valve...now comes the part about snapping the flame back in....keep opening it until the flame comes back to the tip.......once you get the flame set depress the cutting lever....it should sound like you are ripping newspaper....get to cutting.... you realy should have someone help /show you that has some experience as it will keep you safer and make things a lot quicker....
Mike

[hankj]

Now that i have every thing ready to go i need some advice.I have never used cutting torchs before so i am kind of in the dark on this one.I hooked everything up and lit the flame but could not get it to burn right.Also what does perheating mean in terms of the flame,also what did pumpkinhead mean that i will need to snap the flame back into the tip?Thanks

The preheat flames are what you see when you light the torch, coming from the small holes around the tip. "Preheat" is the act of heating the cut line to a cherry red before pressig the cutting lever. This raises the temperature of the steel to it's ignition point (well below the melting point). With propane, this takes a bit longer than with acetlene since there is less heat, but once you get the cut started, cutting speeds are very nearly the same.

Oxy-fuel "cutting" is really a misnomer. You are actually burning the steel and blowing away the molten steel and slag with the strong cutting oxygen stream, which comes from the large center hole in the tip.

You'll need to practice. Keeping the cut moving is a hat trick that requires you to move at a speed fast enough to make a clean cut, but slow enough to keep the steel at ignition temperature with the preheat flame. It's not all that difficult.

With propane, you can keep the preheat flames a bit further from the cut than with O/A. Somewhere between 1/8" and 1/4" seems to work well.

The big advantage to proane, IMHO, is the cleaner kerf and less slag adhesion. The downside is a much larger HAZ, but since there is less heat in the HAZ, I've never had a problem with it. Also, due to the lower temperature, there is less flame hardening of the bottom edge of the cut material.

Hank

[firestorm13666]

Thanks guys i have a #1 tip.Also i don't know of anyone that could help me out and show me a few things with my torchs.With this and welding iam on my own to learn things.Thanks

[weldgault]

Before we complete this posting, one thing that must be told? Propane is heaver than air, so if a leak occurs, it will pocket and not rise like Acetylene John:)

[jewel]

The 0 tip will work with Acetylene, but not with propane. I can't explain it, but physically it won't happen. Try moving up to a #3 tip. Propane tips are larger, produce bushier flames making them good for heating and cutting.

I'm also interested in using propane, but the previous explanation on converting or adding propane seemed a bit complex. Can someone simplify or add information how they use propane.

[jewel]

I'm looking at this unit for melting small quanties of gold/silver. With an optional rosebud tip it is supposed to melt 3 ounces of gold.

http://enet.smithequipment.com/public/docs/BDBinDoc.asp?ID=%7B0E831AA9-E582-4AFA-ACAE-39318EAA800F%7D&DownLoad=0

The one in the middle that uses disposable propane tanks with a 20cf oxygen tank. I live in an apartment, and don't want to get the 5 lb version propane tank, and aceytlene is too dirty and dangerous. The regulator for the propane tank is preset, and the oxygen regulator is adjustable. I have a couple of questions for you gurus.

1. Appoximately how many one ounce melts do you think that I can get before needing to refill, and which tank do you think will run out first? Does 1/7 rule apply to propane or can I run the rosebud tip till dry/tank pressure insufficient?
2. The propane regulator is preset. Does this mean that if propane tank valve is wide open and preset is say, 15psi that will be the level going to the touch, and torch valve will control a 15psi volume to mixing chamber? And with preset regulator will I have to be continually adjusting fuel/air mixture? Or will propane and oxygen be at constant pressure levels until nearly empty.

The reason I ask is that I currently use a $50 cheapo Oxy/propane that uses disposable 1.4 oz oxygen tanks. During melting pressure at both tanks has to be constantly adusted, and it is a real nussance.

[gatkeper1]

The specs state 15 hrs run time on the 14.1 oz propane with the #5 tip which uses 2.58 cfh. The rosebud tip uses 5.12CFH, twice the amount of fuel consumption. So approx 7-7.5 hrs run time on the propane.
The oxygen is another matter. The # 5 tip uses 3.5 cfh which should yield approx 5.5-5.7 hours run time with the 20 Cu ft tank. The rosebud consumes 12.80 cfh, 4 time the oxygen usage, netting approx 1.5 hrs run time.

[84ZMike]

The 0 tip will work with Acetylene, but not with propane. I can't explain it, but physically it won't happen. Try moving up to a #3 tip. Propane tips are larger, produce bushier flames making them good for heating and cutting.

I'm also interested in using propane, but the previous explanation on converting or adding propane seemed a bit complex. Can someone simplify or add information how they use propane.

You can get a 0 tip for LP it will work just fine........with a # 3 tip on an LP set up you would be able to cut thru 4" thick steel :eek:....as far as a set up for LP it is simple go to your LWS pick a brand (smith victor etc) tell the guy behind the counter you want a cutting torch set up to use LP and they will get you all set up.....but to make sure they get it right...... you should get the good hoses (type R) some LP cutting tips and make sure the fuel reg. can be used with LP (I have seen some cheaper sets that the regs can't use LP) that's it you all set with the exception of bottles....
Mike

[weldgault]

"T" Grade for Propane and all needed is a Fuel gas Regulator and you are ready. John

[jewel]

I'm looking at this unit for melting small quanties of gold/silver. With an optional rosebud tip it is supposed to melt 3 ounces of gold.

http://enet.smithequipment.com/public/docs/BDBinDoc.asp?ID=%7B0E831AA9-E582-4AFA-ACAE-39318EAA800F%7D&DownLoad=0

The one in the middle that uses disposable propane tanks with a 20cf oxygen tank. I live in an apartment, and don't want to get the 5 lb version propane tank, and aceytlene is too dirty and dangerous. The regulator for the propane tank is preset, and the oxygen regulator is adjustable. I have a couple of questions for you gurus.

1. Appoximately how many one ounce melts do you think that I can get before needing to refill, and which tank do you think will run out first? Does 1/7 rule apply to propane or can I run the rosebud tip till dry/tank pressure insufficient?
2. The propane regulator is preset. Does this mean that if propane tank valve is wide open and preset is say, 15psi that will be the level going to the touch, and torch valve will control a 15psi volume to mixing chamber? And with preset regulator will I have to be continually adjusting fuel/air mixture? Or will propane and oxygen be at constant pressure levels until nearly empty.

The reason I ask is that I currently use a $50 cheapo Oxy/propane that uses disposable 1.4 oz oxygen tanks. During melting pressure at both tanks has to be constantly adusted, and it is a real nussance.

THANKS FOR ANSWERING QUESTION NUMBER ONE ABOUT HOW LONG OXYGEN TANK WILL LAST. STILL UNSURE ABOUT NUMBER TWO. AGAIN, THE SETUP - AS SHOW IN ABOVE LINK - USES A SIMPLY PRESET PROPANE REGULATOR WITHOUT GAUGE FOR DISPOSABLE LPG TANK, AND LITERATURE SAYS THAT OUTPUT IS 16-18 PSIG PRESSURE. WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN- ie IF ROSEBUD TIP RECOMMENDS 11 PSI FOR LPG WILL THIS BE PROBLEM, AND WILL I HAVE TO BE CONSTANTLY ADJUSTING FUEL/OX MIX AT TIP? IF A FLUXUATING OX/LPG MIX WILL BE A PROBLEM, IS IT POSSIBLE/PRACTICAL TO PUT A REGULATOR WITH A GAUGE READOUT DIRECTLY TO A DISPOSABLE PROPANE TANK?
ALTERNATIVELY, THINKING ABOUT USING THE OPTIONAL UNIT WITH A 5LB PROPANE TANK THAT HAS THE BETTER LPG REGULATOR, BUT WOULD RATHER NOT BECAUSE, AS STATED, LIVING IN A STUDIO APARTMENT. CAN SOMEONE COMMENT OR COMPARE AND CONTRAST PERFORMANCE OF THE TWO LPG UNITS IN REGARDS TO REGULATORS?

[jewel]

I have a cheapo Home Depot $50 oxy/fuel kits that uses the disposable 1.4 oz oxygen canisters. I'm wondering if it would be possible to attach a 20cf oxygen tank in place of disposable oxy tank. If so, what equipment/adapters would I need and any other suggestions?

I'm guessing that I'll need the 20cf oxy tank, additional oxy regulator/gauge, some fitting adapter that joins current cheapo oxy regulator to new new regulator, and possibly oxygen flassback arrestors installed at the tank?

Just thought that possibly I could remove current oxy regulator from hose and bypass it altogether, but not sure how to remove regulator from hose. Any comment on this idea, and suggetions on removing hose, installing new oxy regultor/tank?

Now that I think about it again, leaving both oxy regulators is probably a better idea, because the cheapo torch does not have knobs for adjusting fuel/oxy flow, and I'll have better gas control having both oxy regulators. :confused:

Obviously, cost is a factor here.

[weldgault]

You want junk, cheap is the way to go, but if you want something you can work with, get a victor, smith, harris, uniweld or oxweld set and spend the money. You could get hurt with all the adaptors on the cheap stuff. John

[jewel]

Thanks for your reply. However, the kit is not junk, it's just limited. The disposable oxy tanks run out in about 5 minutes when melting small quanties of gold/silver. Do you have any suggestions for adding a larger oxy tank or not?

[Broccoli1]

Obviously, cost is a factor here.

I think that is the real problem-

probably could do what you want but by the time you get all the parts you would be at a cost equal to buying the Smith Kit
:)

[hankj]

I'm late getting into this thread. Musta been drinkin'!

I can't agree that Bernz-O-Matic products are junk. They are just designed for homeowner repairs and the like. As such, they work fine.

For the application Jewel wants to use, a Bernz-O-Matic torch kit just ain't the right tool.

Larger fuel/oxygen cylinders could be adapted to work with that appliance, but I submit to you that the cost of the adjuncts, coupled with the inconvenience, would be far surpassed with a unit designed for the intended purpose.

Just my 2¢.

Hnak

[hmburner]

I have a tiny prest-to-lite oxy regulator here that hooks up to a full size oxy bottle. You can have it for what i paid for it .50 cents. It sounds like you may be the only person that has a use for it.

Bill
905 834 3027

[jewel]

I think that is the real problem-

probably could do what you want but by the time you get all the parts you would be at a cost equal to buying the Smith Kit
:)


Smith Kit is $400 including extra rosebud tip.

vs.

Bernzomatic modification:
20cf tank $70
Oxy regulator $75
some fitting to attach benzomatic oxy regulator to oxy tank regulator $25
rosebud tip $30

Total $200

Looks like Bernzomatic has about a 50% savings to me.
Do you agree with the approximate cost estimates and parts list?

[hankj]

Do you know for certain that the Bernz-O-Matic O² regulator will deliver the volume of oxygen that your application will require? As far as I know, these little guys don't have a real large flow rate.

Rosebuds (and any other oxy/propane tip) require higher oxygen flow rates than comparable oxy/acetylene appliances. For example, a Victor #8 propane rosebud (the smallest propane bud) will want 140 SCFH of oxygen at full tilt, where the same size O/A bud only needs 88 SCFH.

Hank

[jewel]

Do you know for certain that the Bernz-O-Matic O² regulator will deliver the volume of oxygen that your application will require? As far as I know, these little guys don't have a real large flow rate.

Rosebuds (and any other oxy/propane tip) require higher oxygen flow rates than comparable oxy/acetylene appliances. For example, a Victor #8 propane rosebud (the smallest propane bud) will want 140 SCFH of oxygen at full tilt, where the same size O/A bud only needs 88 SCFH.

Hank

Good question. I just looked at the bernzomatic oxy reg/torch assembly. Not even sure if the tip can be replaced with a larger one. End of torch is threaded, but does not look like bernzaomatic sells replacable tips. Oh well the flame size was sufficienct when wide open for before so tip replacement may not be necessary.

I just noticed a new problem though. The bernzomatic requlator attaches directly to a disposable oxygen tank, and I'm seriously questioning if there is some kind of fitting to connect bernzomatic requlator to a new smith type oxy regulator? Remember, I'd like to keep the bernzomatic reg. for better flow control since torch handle does not have flow controls?
Here's an equivalent picture of the regulator:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SMITH-LITTLE-TORCH-PRESET-REGULATOR-OXYGEN-249-499_W0QQitemZ230162632258QQihZ013QQcategoryZ67058Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[hankj]

I just noticed a new problem though. The bernzomatic requlator attaches directly to a disposable oxygen tank, and I'm seriously questioning if there is some kind of fitting to connect bernzomatic requlator to a new smith type oxy regulator? Remember, I'd like to keep the bernzomatic reg. for better flow control since torch handle does not have flow controls?


If you have a Smith standard regulator, just hook the torch hose to it! You can use the adjusting screw on the Smith regulator in the same manner as you do the knob on the mini-regulator to control flow.

Hank

[Pumpkinhead]

I just noticed a new problem though. The bernzomatic requlator attaches directly to a disposable oxygen tank, and I'm seriously questioning if there is some kind of fitting to connect bernzomatic requlator to a new smith type oxy regulator? Remember, I'd like to keep the bernzomatic reg. for better flow control since torch handle does not have flow controls?


that would be no, you can not adapt the disposable regulator to an adjustable one.
if you bought the kit you mentioned previous (the middle one), you'll set the oxygen pressure as reccommended, open the fuel reg. fully and adjust for a neutral flame on the torch body. one thing to note a jeweler's regulator(s) are not the same as a weldor's, the jeweler's regs. have a finer adjustment range and a lower low-end (perhaps 0-10psi), if you go to a weldor's supply to make a purchase make sure you tell them it's for jewelry purposes, you WILL NOT be happy with an off the shelf welder's regulator.

Cyberweld has the "middle" kit for $342usd and heating tips for ~$22usd
http://store.cyberweld.com/smlito23prca.html

or you can get the "little torch" without caddy/cylinders/regs./etc. and order oxygen reg. No. 30-20-540 and disposable reg. No. 249-500 and of course the heating tips you'll require.

$73.50 for the oxy reg.
$41.00 for a disposable fuel reg.
$115.20 for the kit
$22.00 for the heating tip

all Cyberweld pricing.

[jewel]

If you have a Smith standard regulator, just hook the torch hose to it! You can use the adjusting screw on the Smith regulator in the same manner as you do the knob on the mini-regulator to control flow.

Hank

Ok, bypassing existing bernzomatic oxygen regulator sounds like a plan since connecting the two regulators apparently is impossible. Another question: Is connecting the bernzomatic disposable tank type regulator direcectly to a 20cf oxygen tank impossible, as well? Please forgive my ignorance - that's why I'm in here to learn from the experts.

Assuming both are impossible or impractical, the problem now seems to be removing the hose where it connects to the bernzomatic regulator, and somehow re-attaching that hose end to a smith type regulator. The hose is much thinner than the connecting link on the little smith regulator. Any ideas on adapters needed for linking existing hose to new wider smith regulator?

[jewel]

Thanks for the reply pumpkin. I did not purchase the smith little kit torch. I have had for a few years a bernzomatic oxy/propane torch set. The problem is the oxygen regulator connects to 1.4 oz. disposable tanks that run out to quickly. What I'd like to do is keep bernzomatic unit, but use it safely and economically with larger oxygen tanks? Here is a picture of unit.

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=BernzoProd100044

Replacing current simple oxygen regulator with a little smith regulator that attaches to regular oxygen tanks seems to be the plan. Connecting existing hose to smith regulator seems to be the problem.

[Pumpkinhead]

Thanks for the reply pumpkin. I did not purchase the smith little kit torch. I have had for a few years a bernzomatic oxy/propane torch set. The problem is the oxygen regulator connects to 1.4 oz. disposable tanks that run out to quickly. What I'd like to do is keep bernzomatic unit, but use it safely and economically with larger oxygen tanks? Here is a picture of unit.

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=BernzoProd100044

Replacing current simple oxygen regulator with a little smith regulator that attaches to regular oxygen tanks seems to be the plan. Connecting existing hose to smith regulator seems to be the problem.

Jewel, your goal is clear, unfortunately it's neither practical nor safe, that is why i suggested the "Little Torch" which many in your trade use.
you need to understand that connecting the Bernz-O-Matic to a "normal" regulator will give you pressure adjustment ONLY, the Bernz-O-Matic disposable regulator regulates both the pressure AND allows flow adjustment.
while it would be possible to connect the two (your existing torch to a 'normal' regulator) it would be quite scary to use, and i am old and jaded and not normally frightened, and using this setup would not be advised, if an accident were to happen, you can be assured insurance will not pay off when they discover the "non-standard" setup.
do what you feel you need to do, just be safe, my advice is use the correct tool for the job.

[jewel]

Ok, not what I wanted to hear obviously, none the-less value your opinion; but, I don't understand when say that the current benzomatic regulator controls both pressure and flow, then you say the smith regulator would only control pressure. Since the smith is a replacement wouldn't it do the same? Also, wondering why you consider it unsafe when all I'm really doing is replacing regulator with a better one? Sure it may not be standard, but what's dangerous about it? Flashback arrestors would obviously make it safer.

If oxy regulator is set to say 10psi and fuel regulator is set about the same then where is the problem? Note: the bernzomatic kit only has one valve for oxygen pressure/flow contol, there is none at the torch, so it has to control pressure/flow. And the smith obviously will have only one control valve too. Okay, maybe your saying that the bernzomatic has a preset pressure, and the valve controls flow rate, and the smith is not preset, and pressure is adjustable, but how is that a disadvantage? Wouldn't a 10psi pressure be a constant flow rate until tank was about empty?

[weldgault]

Ok, not what I wanted to hear obviously, none the-less value your opinion; but, I don't understand when say that the current benzomatic regulator controls both pressure and flow, then you say the smith regulator would only control pressure. Since the smith is a replacement wouldn't it do the same? Also, wondering why you consider it unsafe when all I'm really doing is replacing regulator with a better one? Sure it may not be standard, but what's dangerous about it? Flashback arrestors would obviously make it safer.

If oxy regulator is set to say 10psi and fuel regulator is set about the same then where is the problem? Note: the bernzomatic kit only has one valve for oxygen pressure/flow contol, there is none at the torch, so it has to control pressure/flow. And the smith obviously will have only one control valve too. Okay, maybe your saying that the bernzomatic has a preset pressure, and the valve controls flow rate, and the smith is not preset, and pressure is adjustable, but how is that a disadvantage? Wouldn't a 10psi pressure be a constant flow rate until tank was about empty?


You need to understand the difference between pressure and volume. 50 Lbs pressure on a 1" dia. hose and the same on a 1/8 hose, the volume comming out the end is different. If you don't understand, then do what you want and try to collect when things go wrong.

[Pumpkinhead]

firstly, in the folowing Bernz-O-Matic will be abreviated to BOM (i'm tired of typing Bernz-O-Matic), oxy=oxygen, reg. = regulator


I don't understand when say that the current benzomatic regulator controls both pressure and flow, then you say the smith regulator would only control pressure.

in the BOM oxy reg. there is a small opening called an orifice (like in what we ((weldors)) call a flowguage), and a limit to how far it will unscrew (limiting the maximum pressure able to be released), on a standard reg. (Smith's in this case) the orifice is not there (no orifice, no flow control).


Since the smith is a replacement wouldn't it do the same? Also, wondering why you consider it unsafe when all I'm really doing is replacing regulator with a better one?

but let's be honest, the Smith's is not a replacement for the BOM disposable cylinder oxy reg. is it?
no, in this case rigging together two different devices that serve two distinctly different purposes is not better.
because the BOM was designed to work with disposable cylinders and control both pressure and flow the torch is not equipped with valves. these valves on a standard torch, including the 'Little Torch', control the flow while the regulators control the pressure. by "reworking" the BOM torch to fit the Smith's (standard) reg. you have removed the flow control.


Sure it may not be standard, but what's dangerous about it? Flashback arrestors would obviously make it safer.


three things here, first, have you ever dealt with an insurance adjuster?
if something were to happen, and it will be discovered that you weren't using the UL approved method, FORGET about collecting!! FORGET about being reinsured!! the insurance game is not to be trifled with. better to spend the bux now than go through that mess.
second, how do you plan on shutting down the torch, unscrewing the adjustment 'key' on the reg. or closing the cylinder valve?
neither are designed for that.
third, it's just plain wasteful to allow the oxy to escape while you are "adjusting" your flow or shutting down at the reg./cylinder, instead of quickly/effectively/safely turning off at the handle.



Wouldn't a 10psi pressure be a constant flow rate until tank was about empty?
yes, but at an vastly increased flow rate due to not having a limiting orifice.


Jewel, as i've said before, and has been intimated in this post, do what you feel you need to do, but please be safe, it's only money and alot less than it will cost to replace your belongings in the unfortunate case of an accident.
and not to sound morbid but, they can even replace your burnt flesh, but your life can never be replaced.
doodoo occurs, why take the chance.

[weldgault]

PKH, I think you have explaned in enought detail, that if he can't understand, quit trying. You did a very good job. John

[Knowledgeworker]

PKH, I think you have explaned in enought detail, that if he can't understand, quit trying. You did a very good job. John

I agree with weldgault. You did a great job in your explaination.

Jim

[jewel]

First off, thank you Pumpkin for your time and professional expanation. No one appreciates it more than me. I'm not dumb but, shall we generously say, inexperienced.

To answer your question about lighting torch. It would be by adjusting oxy and fuel regulators, and I don't think it would be wasteful because small increments would be made in the usual manner when lighting BOM or any other torch. As stated by hankj: "If you have a Smith standard regulator, just hook the torch hose to it! You can use the adjusting screw on the Smith regulator in the same manner as you do the knob on the mini-regulator to control flow."
I'm looking at the Bernzomatic(BOM) regulator now and it has only one knob to turn just like the Smith so I still contend smith would just be a replacement? Not a UAL replacement and whole liability issue may very well be shifted away from manfacturer to user. But has safety really been compromised? The maximum output pressure of smith reg is I think 30 and don't know about BOM, and of course BOM has no gauges. Anyone know the max pressure output of BOM? Both units use 1/8" inside diameter hoses and tip diamters are similar so gas output volumes(or flow) would be similar.
Admittedly, I have not seen any mods of BOM on internet so maybe this idea is not even practical. But is it because no one wants to publish mods because of fine print inurance issues in this sue crazed country, or is it because safety really has been compromised, or is it because of a completely different reason??

[jewel]

Apparently I am not the only one who thinks that running to the store every 10 minutes for dispoable oxygen tanks is a nusance. Someone has modified the bernzomatic, and appears to be even safer than original unit because if anyone has ever used these they know that the gas/oxy mix has to be constantly adjusted because oxy pressure is always dropping. Modifier claims that he can go flat out for 20 minutes and not have to adjust valves once. Here are the before/after picks, and link to website:

Before: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/a/karlet/Parts.JPG
After: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/a/karlet/Assy.JPG

Link to website:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/images/hires/JTH7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/printthread.php%3Ft%3D5746%26pp%3D40&h=2000&w=3008&sz=286&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=9KX47xp846X0kM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%252220%2Bcu%2Boxygen%2Btank%26svnum% 3D50%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGFRG,GFRG:2007-18,GFRG:en
(see bottom page 2)

Bentboy is the author in a bicycle brazing forum. A welding shop told him it should be okay and sold him the parts. If you already have the bernzomatc unit cost is only the price of a 20 cu tank, reguator, a hose and simple adapters or about $125. Compare that with the cost of the all in ones units, and you can save some serious coin. Admittedly he does not advise anyone else to do this. But practically speaking, I ask you experts...is this unit physically safer?? Also, wondering why, as per pictures, couldn't the second adapter and orange hose be eliminated, and a single hose barbed adapter be used, or is it necessary for some reason?

[weldgault]

Apparently I am not the only one who thinks that running to the store every 10 minutes for dispoable oxygen tanks is a nusance. Someone has modified the bernzomatic, and appears to be even safer than original unit because if anyone has ever used these they know that the gas/oxy mix has to be constantly adjusted because oxy pressure is always dropping. Modifier claims that he can go flat out for 20 minutes and not have to adjust valves once. Here are the before/after picks, and link to website:

Before: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/a/karlet/Parts.JPG
After: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/a/karlet/Assy.JPG

Link to website:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/images/hires/JTH7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/printthread.php%3Ft%3D5746%26pp%3D40&h=2000&w=3008&sz=286&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=9KX47xp846X0kM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%252220%2Bcu%2Boxygen%2Btank%26svnum% 3D50%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGFRG,GFRG:2007-18,GFRG:en
(see bottom page 2)

Bentboy is the author in a bicycle brazing forum. A welding shop told him it should be okay and sold him the parts. If you already have the bernzomatc unit cost is only the price of a 20 cu tank, reguator, a hose and simple adapters or about $125. Compare that with the cost of the all in ones units, and you can save some serious coin. Admittedly he does not advise anyone else to do this. But practically speaking, I ask you experts...is this unit physically safer?? Also, wondering why, as per pictures, couldn't the second adapter and orange hose be eliminated, and a single hose barbed adapter be used, or is it necessary for some reason?





Jewel, can't you understand that you need to get a standard set up and forget the B.S., I don't want to be in the same state when you are using this setup and probably a lot more feel the same. John

[Knowledgeworker]

IJMO but I would milk every bit reference material on the safety issue on this. I am definetly not an expert on this issue, but I would much rather spend some coin than compromise safety.

Jim

[MichaelP]

Jewel,

Take a look: http://cgi.ebay.com/Purox-Linde-oxygen-and-acetylene-regulators-torch-hose_W0QQitemZ160198180223QQihZ006QQcategoryZ67057 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Pumpkinhead]

this is the person you are taking advice from:

Bentboy 10-04-2007 12:16 AM

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follow up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doug8002
....the oxygen combines at 3:1 ratio with the MAPP gas
~
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This ratio doesn't make sense. I've had the same MAPP bottle that came with the kit over 3 years ago and just replaced it last month. During the same time I've been through 12 or 14 oxy bottles. I'd just barely crack the oxy when welding and usually got the standard 15 mins out of each bottle.

yep, a REAL brain trust this one.

[Pumpkinhead]

hey old timers, ring any bells?


moody 04-16-2006 10:55 PM

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hay everyone...found this site through a great welding board

[jewel]

this is the person you are taking advice from:


yep, a REAL brain trust this one.

Bentboy is correct...15 minutes per disposable oxy tank. Who's the brain trust?

[Broccoli1]

hey old timers, ring any bells?

:D:D

Mine still works best with Popcorn:p

[jewel]

OK, I GIVE UP. waiving white flag

I SEE IN ALMOST EVERY WELDING SAFETY CODE, MANUAL, ETC. IT SAYS ADAPTERS SHOULD NEVER BE USED BECAUSE STANDARD KITS ARE DESIGNED FOR MAXIMUM SAFETY. OTHER THAN THE ADAPTER, ON MODIFICATION, OTHER DANGEROUS ASPECTS OF DESIGN MAY INCLUDE LACK OF CHECK VALVES, AND MAYBE LACK OF FLASHBACK ARRESTORS. MEMBERS HAVE SAID THAT LACK OF TORCH VALVES IS NOT GOOD, ADDING REGULAR SIZE OXY TANKS, SWAPPING REGULATORS, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT OTHER DESIGN FLAWS MAY EXIST.

MODDING YOUR COMPUTERS OR WELDING PROJECTS IS FINE. JUST DON'T F... WITH GAS EQUIPMENT!! ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE NOT QUALIFIED. THANKS ALL FOR MY SALVATION AND FOR INSTILLING A RESPECTED FEAR IN GOD ALMIGHTY. :)

[akaIII]

Another point to think about. All of these rigs were designed by engineers and chemist. They have been tested so they work as designed for a particular application and don't blow your A.. up! Manufactures don't like being sued. Every warning label was printed cuz a manufacturer had to hire a lawyer as part of a lawsuit after some clown modified equipment and it didn't work out the way their buddy said it would. If your messing with flamable gas don't be stupid. Stupid people cause the cost of equipment to keep going up.