OT: Smoke Detector In Garage Question???

[556man]

Hello,

I was cleaning my shed today and I found some brand new smoke alarms I bought like 8 years ago which I forgot all about. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to install a smoke alarm in the garage where I weld. Though the smoke from welding is not much I was wondering if it would activate the smoke alarm. I do follow the 15 minute rule to be in the garage after welding in case something is smoldering.

Thanks in advance.

556man

[Blacksmith]

I have a smoke detector in the attached garage but weld in the driveway in front of the garage. Never set it off. BUT, my house has a fireplace in the den adjacent to the garage and the back wall of the fireplace had a hairline crack that would open up under the heat of a fire and set the garage on fire about 10 years ago. If not for the warning provided by the independent smoke alarm that woke me up, I might not be replying to this post right now. The fire was just breaking through to the common attic space when the Fire Department got there. I replaced the smoke detector in the garage, kitchen, and hallway with new ones that are all hooked together so if one goes, they all go. If I set it off with welding, a bound piece of wood in the table saw or starting up the weedeater in the doorway, the annoyance is a small price to pay for my family's safety.

[txfireguy2003]

Just the friendly fireman here to give a little smoke detector advice. My thoughts are that you're not going to generate enough smoke by welding to set it off. Using the O/A torch, or something like that, depending on the material you are heating, cutting, you might set it off, but who knows. As was said earlier....the annoyance is a small price to pay for the piece of mind.

That being said, smoke detectors technically expire 10 years after their date of manufacture. Now, being that they never had a battery in them, I'm sure they'd be fine, but if they fail on you, and you call the manufacturer....they're going to tell you they were too old, you should have gotten a new one. The newest kind, (that we give away and even install for people in our city) have lithium batteries that last for 10 years. There's no checking the battery every 6 months, no annoying beeps when the battery gets low etc. If I were you, and you WANT a smoke detector in the garage, I'd go to lowes and get a lithium detector, they're much more convenient.

[greywynd]

There are different types too, some would be better for a garage application (say heat sensing for example, versus a smoke detector.) There are also detectors with 'false alarm' buttons, one I've used was a few minute delay, gave you time to clear the smoke from say a burning piece of toast or what have you.

Maybe some of our 'fireguys' will give some suggestions from what they've seen or know.

[Zrexxer]

That being said, smoke detectors technically expire 10 years after their date of manufacture. Now, being that they never had a battery in them, I'm sure they'd be fine,Is that true of the ionizing devices that use an Americium-241 radioactive source, too? The source would be decaying whether there was a battery installed or not. Not trying to contradict you, just curious...

[txfireguy2003]

Is that true of the ionizing devices that use an Americium-241 radioactive source, too? The source would be decaying whether there was a battery installed or not. Not trying to contradict you, just curious...

I'm not positive, so don't quote me here, but I would say it is MORE true. They will be less effective, ie expired. The problem with a lot of them is that they have a sensor that senses light between two points and when the light is no longer visible, or maybe it's when they sense a reflection that's not supposed to be there, they go off. This is why a cloud of fine dust will sometimes set them off. Over the years, the lenses on those sensors cloud up, or get dusty or for whatever reason the sensors are not as sensitive to changes, so they don't work properly. These things are cheap enough, it's best to simply replace them after 10 years. As I understand the radioactive source type, they sense the radiation coming from the source, and when there is enough...impedance for lack of a better term, or loss in signal, they alert. Therefor, the more the radioactive source decays, the less signal it is capable of producing, and one day, they should, theoretically, just go off for no reason.

[uncrichie]

I believe that you should also extend your 15 minute rule to at least a half hour or more. Especially with all the stuff that usually gets stored in a garage. Uncrichie.

[Zrexxer]

Well, I learned one thing at least from this thread, I'd never heard of the 10 yr lithium batteries. Both the ones i my house are getting replaced with those this week. I've spent a small fortune on dang 9-volts, and my detectors are nine years old anyway.

[k.a.m]

i have also tried to move all my metal work outside the thought of my shop going up scares me to nightmares,as for the smoke alarm i am not sure what kind my boss had in there home but while we were remodeling a bath everytime i soldered a pipe with my mapp i would set the one off in the adjacent hall.

[TxFire]

Is that true of the ionizing devices that use an Americium-241 radioactive source, too? The source would be decaying whether there was a battery installed or not. Not trying to contradict you, just curious...


Yes that is true and I believe is the reason for the replacement dating.

My personal opinion is that a smoke detector in the garage should be tied into the other in house detectors to be of any real use. You are likely to notice any smoke that would set one off if you are present, unless you sleep in the garage. But if you are not present you will not likely hear the detector in you house unless it is tied into the in house units. There is my .02 worth.

[txfireguy2003]

Yes that is true and I believe is the reason for the replacement dating.

My personal opinion is that a smoke detector in the garage should be tied into the other in house detectors to be of any real use. You are likely to notice any smoke that would set one off if you are present, unless you sleep in the garage. But if you are not present you will not likely hear the detector in you house unless it is tied into the in house units. There is my .02 worth.

+1...couldn't agree more. But if you're looking to save money, the hardwired detectors are a little more expensive and a stand alone in the garage is better than no detector at all.

[556man]

Thank you all for your input. I installed two of them in the garage and tested them with a smoking coffee can with smoldering leaves on it and they work so far. It also has a test button to check if it still works. Two of them is pretty loud and I could hear it inside the house but I agree that I might not be able to hear it when I'm sleeping since it's in the garage. After about three years more I will replace them since they are pretty cheap. Never knew about those 10 year lithium battery smoke detectors. That would be cool since the battery last for 10 years. I would buy that next time.

Thanks again to all and I appreciate your help.

556man

[tigster]

yes, americium 241 decays. but it has a half life of 432 years. in other words, it takes 432 years for half of it to decay.

[Zrexxer]

yes, americium 241 decays. but it has a half life of 432 years. in other words, it takes 432 years for half of it to decay.I'm aware of the half life. But how long it takes for a 50% decay doesn't mean anything if the device becomes ineffective after a 1% decay.

[txfireguy2003]

I'm aware of the half life. But how long it takes for a 50% decay doesn't mean anything if the device becomes ineffective after a 1% decay.

That's exactly right. How much radioactive resistance do you think a smoke cloud is going to creat in order to set the thing off? Not much, according to my brother, (former nuclear power operator) 2" of lead only cuts the radiation in half if I remember that right. Doesn't really seem right since they wear lead vests when you get x-rays done....oh well, maybe I'll have to ask him tonight on commercial break from the Cowboys vs Packers game.

[tigster]

after 10 years, there will be 98.4% Am 241 still remaining. i'm not sure what the 10 year expiration is for, but maybe it's for the electronics and components.