View Full Version : Hh135 Heeeeellllppppp!!!
08-30-2003, 12:49 PM
Hello, newbie here so dont slam me to hard. I have a hobart handler 135. I can produce great welds usin Flux Core wire. My problem is with Gas welding, I reversed the polarity, Gas mix 75/25 20psi. Wire size .030. Gas shielded wire. Push method,Problem: NO penetration welding on even thin flat steel or angle iron im using for practice. Bead looks like a dog turd. Long round and just sits on top haha. I have tried adjusting gas settings (what psi should I run by the way) , wire speed and voltage, I just cant figure out what im doing wrong and its driving me nuts. Should I start with a smaller wire??? I will try and post pics later today if that would help. Thanks in advance. Borrowed this picture from this site. Hope thats ok, it looks like the weld on the left, I hate the cleanup from flux core and want to be able to weld with gas but in getting very frustrated, Thanks again
08-30-2003, 01:05 PM
Where are the settings? I think the voltage tap is going to need to be near the top for 030 on that machine. Dan on here will have better idea as he has lots of experience with smaller machines.
08-30-2003, 04:15 PM
like sberry said.Run you voltage up higher, maybe slow your wire speed down some. Try wire speed in the middle and voltage at 4 and see what that does. On thin stuff it will probably burn through, but it will give you an idea of the heat output. You will have to put more heat into the solid wire than the fluxcore for the same given diameter wire.
08-30-2003, 04:43 PM
That should help, thanks, I will give that a try. Am I running the right Gas pressure 20-22psi??? Thanks again for the replies,
08-30-2003, 05:21 PM
I use flow meters so I am not sure about pressures. Someone did a post here a couple weeks ago about setting those but I cant remember the details. If there is no visable porosity you more than likely have enough. You should certainly be able to hear it coming thru the gun. Dont poke yourself in the ear with the wire,, ha By the way, I like 030 wire in small machines,,,, cause I can handle the heat man.
The gas rate could be part of the problem. For MIG the gas is usually given in cfh (cubic feet per hour) not psi. Rates of 15-25 cfh are not uncommon.
If you are using an unrestricted pressure gauge (like from an oxy-ace set or an air compressor) at 20 psi you could be getting way too much gas. That could be cooling things and leading to lack of penetration.
Try going to way lower pressure (5psi). If you get too low the arc usually does lots of snap and pop, the welds are a mess and not useable.
Something to try. FYI, there is a "search" here that works pretty well. You might try "flow" or "gauge".
Welcome on board. You can get lots of help and advice here. There is some good natured ribbing, but most here try to help and not to slam.
08-30-2003, 06:47 PM
OK CFH haha, thats what I meant, Did I say psi ?? hahaha Anyway, thanks for the help, I will try upping the voltage and also try some smaller wire to see if that will help.
One of my wire feed machines just happens to be a HH 135. I m might be able to help you with your settings. What material thickness are you welding on? If you respond back soon enough and i have some of this material thickness laying around, I ll runs some welds an see what i come up with. The machine does just fine with an .030 E70S-6, however it does run an .023 slightly better.
08-31-2003, 11:01 AM
I am trying to weld on 1 1/2" .095 tubing. I can get good welds with flux core but it just makes a big mound and sits on top using gas and yes I have change the polarity. I have wire speed set on 30 voltage on 3, if I try to set the wire speed slower it just pops and faster and its to fast and pushes the wire and is a mess, should I try voltage of 4 . I keep kicking my circuit breaker for the garage when running on 4, would a smaller wire be better. Thanks again
Sorry, man you need to use voltage tap #4 when using solid wire and shielding gas on .095 tubing. If you step down to an .023 wire you will still need tap #4. The advantage of using the .023 solid wire on these smaller 120 volt machines is that it produces more consistent arc starts then an .030 solid wire.
By the way, I ran some welds and the 4 and 65 door chart setting for 1/8" worked perfect. My amp meter showed that the machine was outputting 90 amps at this setting.
08-31-2003, 04:48 PM
Again, these nmachines are designed for dedicated circuits and not general use. Thats a reason I strongly advocate 240v machines. Like Dan said, you need number 4 and its current draw is just to much. What size wire and what size breaker are you on? You should run an unslpiced wire directly from the panel for welding, I would run 10/2 wg, then you can use a 30A breaker on it. It should really be a single outlet so someone cant plug other things in it. I almost asked before as about 75% of the time its a factor that they are under powered. I upped the circuit to my chopsaw the other day and it was noticable the first cut, what difference from an overloaded circuit and you will dramatically notice the improvement. Anytime that an appliance is over 50% of the ampacity of the circuit it requires dedicated. good way to burn the place down, fire in a junction box of a general circuit loaded to the max.
08-31-2003, 05:11 PM
Well, thats what I was afraid of, Not enough voltage, our house was wired and built in 1955. Looks like im gonna have to get ahold of a electrician and upgrade the breaker box / wiring etc etc. That was why I didnt get a 220v to begin with, no 220v circuits in the house/garage and now cant run the HH135 on voltage 4 without kicking breaker at the box or the lights dimmin in the house, what a bummer. Ok now for one last stupid question, my motorhome has a 4000w generator, can I run the welder off that until I can figure out something with the house wiring???? Thanks in advance, everyone has been a great help.
08-31-2003, 05:34 PM
Without knowing more details of the generator I would say not. Is it a 120V gen or a 240? If you have a breaker panel run a new wire. You will need to run one anyway and you could even use it if you change machines. This is common reasoning and you are not the firszt one,, I will get a 120V machine so I can plug in anywhere,,, well they take dedicated circuit and its just as easy to run one 240 as 120. Right now if it was mine I would run new wire, if it bothers the lights move the breaker one slot up or down and see if it is still a problem. That will put it on opposite leg. sometimes it works to avoid annoyance. Most of the time a little dimming doesnt hurt anything. With a 240 machine you probably wouldnt even have noticed it. When power supplies are poor to start with all the MORE reason to use 240. You half the current draw on each wire and leg of the power supply.
08-31-2003, 06:04 PM
Yea, sounds like what I need to do, then I can get a 220v machine :D Problem right now is this: my box is on the outside of the house, 1955 house, its one of those with the small approx 8"x 8" lids that raise up and has 4 breakers. The garage is approx 25 feet recessed back from the house and there are 2 small wires running the electrical to the one box in the garage, also from 1955 I think which I KNOW is an accident wating to happen , sounds like I might need to replace the electrical wires running to the garage??? and maybe even the box on the back of the house??? or can I start off by running new line to the garage and putting in a subpanel in the garage. I would really like to do this myself if possible since I know electricians arent cheap, any good sights on the net that detail this???
08-31-2003, 06:18 PM
2 things, is the one in garage one of those one arm bandits? Only 2 fuses in it? There is nothing inherintly wrong with fuse boxes but those are not distribution panels, they are equipment disconnects. 2nd, are there any unused breakers on the box on the outside of the house. Here is a link, some of which would pertain to attatched garages also. http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/accessory/detgarage/detgarage.html There is one for recepts in attatched garages also. A elect service upgrade is always a good investment, for safety, demand usability, additional equipment and great for resale.
08-31-2003, 06:43 PM
Thanks for all the help!!!! I dont mean to be asking so many questions but this welder was driving me nuts, No there are no open spaces or breakers in the box, theres only 4 breakers, and the 2 wires that go to the 1 outlet box in the garage is probably no bigger than 12 guage wire. I think I will go to home depot first thing in the morning and get the wire to replace the ones going to the garage and get a subpanel for the garage. Then I will call a electrician or talk to some of my nieghbors or have done the conversion about what exactly I need to do with this box at the back of the house. Its the type with the glass window with the meter in it and flip up cover for the 4 breakers. Very small but the house has all gas ranges , washer dry etc etc so there is no 220 in the house either. Sounds like I need to do some major upgrading. I do alot of fabricating at a freinds house but was slowly getting the equipment to do alot of it at my house but as you can see im limited by the electrical. This site is the greatest!!!
08-31-2003, 06:51 PM
Where does the wire that goes to the garage come from,, the outside panel? Is anything else connected to this wire? For the small garage get a 6 space main lug panel (can use 8 space if attatched garage), SQD or Homeline is fine,, 100A panel and get a seperate equipment grounding bar kit for it. Are the breakers on the outside single pole or double? they must be single?
08-31-2003, 07:00 PM
You are really in need of a service upgrade. New 200A service entrance panel set up beside the old one and go from there. The home wiring site has directions but the details and variables are much too complex to go into here. http://www.homewiringandmore.com/index.html
08-31-2003, 07:32 PM
The breakers are single pole, The wire running to the garage comes from the box on the back of the house, You cant see the wire coming from there, you see it running from under the roof, out to the garage and then into a single outlet with 4 recepticles. This is the way all these houses were done as they are tract houses built for boeing in the late 50s, So I should put another breaker box in the garage, replace the old wire running to the garage and look at upgrading and or replacing the box on the back of the house, it is a distribution box and fuse panel all in one, has the meter and breakers all in one unit. I should take a pic as this is kind of hard to explain. Anyone know the average cost to upgrade my service and have a electrician fix this box at the back of the house? Im in southern CA
Thanks again Ray
09-01-2003, 08:28 AM
http://forum.doityourself.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=9 Forum just like this one for electric
My house is late 50's. I can relate. Service in my garage went to 4 bedrooms first, then living room, then garage. It was #14 or #16, at least 100' of wire and a dozen duplex outlets ahead fo the garage. I would recommend the total service upgrade if you plan to stay in the house (my late 50's has copper pipe, real plaster and a large lot ... old aint necessarily bad)
What part of So CA ??
On a different tack ... while you are hasseling with electrical contractors, you might take the HH-135 down to the other shop and put it thru its paces on the higher settings.
Hobart Expert Dave
09-01-2003, 06:35 PM
Try running the welder off your Generator. This welder does require about 3,000 watt generator to run it. So as long as your generator is a good 4,000 watts then you should have no problems. Give it a try and see.
09-01-2003, 08:58 PM
I dont think that gen is such a good idea,, best temp thing would be to run a new wire back to the panel.
09-02-2003, 10:24 AM
Thanks everyone for all the help, advice and suggestions. Myself, along with my neighbor who is a woodworker , has all kinds of 220v equipment and has done this conversion , and my father in law are in the process of upgrading the wiring running to the garage, we are also installing a breaker box for the outlets in the garage and running each outlet box to a seperate breaker, Trns out I do have a 220v circuit and outlet running into the kitchen so we will also be running at 220 outlet in the garage (yesssss new welder in the future), All of you guys have been the greatest and a great source of info. I will let you know how everything turns out. Now, got to get out there and get to wiring so I can start using my welder again. :D I have never been to a forum where a newbie was so welcomed. Thanks again.
Hobart Expert Rock
09-02-2003, 10:52 AM
426DEZTHUMPER....................WELCOME ABOARD........One thing I would like to add here is while you've been useing fluxcored is there a chance your nozzle or gas defuser is all plugged up from splatter..............This could restrict your gas flow tremendously and cause this no penetration problem.......
And since your kicking the breaker how big is it......... The wire to your garage I'm going to guess is the 2 or 3 wire overhead individual wires running to the garage right.......
Keep talking many are listening................Be safe.........Rock...:cool: